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Trade routes suggestion

Discussion in 'CivBE - Ideas and Suggestions' started by jcd2050, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. jcd2050

    jcd2050 Chieftain

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    Hello, friends. I have some suggestions to improve trade routes managing.
    There is a serious problem, cause when you have 5+ cities, you have to reroute caravans like every couple of turns. And if you have, e.g., 20 cities, there are 60(!!!) trade routes you'll have to manage.

    First of all, I think we need the "use previous trade route" button and the hot key. This is quite obvious.
    But this isn't cure if you deal with 40+ trade routes, so we need to renew them automatically.
    I suggest to make checkboxes on the trade routes screen (F10 by default) so player could choose and cancel routes he want to renew automatically. If you want to redirect your route, just untick this and wait till current trade will end.

    I've painted a couple of screenshots how this supposed to look.
    P.S. sorry for grammar.

    Spoiler :


    Moderator Action: Images wrapped around spoiler tags. Please use these when linking to wide images.
     
  2. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    That is a good sollution. Also I can't see the 3 trade routes/city survive a patch. A fixed maximum depending on techs would've been best.
     
  3. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    3 trade routes/city would be fine if the yields weren't so insane, and if they gave diminishing returns after a point. Cut the yields in half, and have trade routes to the same city exponentially decrease after a certain point so you can't do silly game breaking things like run 11 trade routes to your capital for insane food and production yields.

    They very much need to change the quest for the extra trade route though, and frankly I think they need to move it to the trade depot itself rather than the autoplant (so there's a reason to not immediately tech to the autoplant every game). In combination to nerfing the yields I would maybe like to see the trade depot quest be something like "1 additional trade route per city OR x additional trade routes in the capital" with X scaling based on map size. Getting the sweet spot just right for additional routes in the capital might not be easy, but I could see actually having to debate that quest rather than immediately picking 1 additional trade route. Do I get minimal return from my extra trade routes now, but have far more later in the game assuming I can continue to expand, or do I use those very good (lets say 3 or 4 extra) trade routes immediately to beef up my satellite cities with internal trade routes, while still maintaining a few solid station/international trade routes in my capital? An actual early game vs late game bonus choice would be nice.

    Edit: Oh right, and yes to everything OP said. Seriously, next patch Firaxis.
     
  4. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    Problem is that trade routes pr city are another strong reason to spam cities like crazy. And I do think that it will be a more strategic choice if it was a fixed number. It would have been great if city placement started to matter, so limiting the total number would mean more of an opportunity cost to founding a new city.
     
  5. Manannan

    Manannan Prince

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    Again though, that's more an issue with trade routes being OP from their stupidly high yields than anything else. If plopping down a city in a subpar location only yields 1 food and 1 production both ways on an outgoing internal trade route (maybe), and only 4 gold + 2 science on an international trade route are you going to be so quick to pop down cities in the middle of no resources for the sake of getting more trade routes? Probably far less so than now anyway. They don't need to start adding arbitrary caps on wide play if they can solve the problem by just balancing the current mechanics, which I have a hunch a nerf to trade route yields would do.
     
  6. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    I agree that a solid nerf would solve the balance problem, but what you're left with is basically the question: is city placement modified with yield of 1 TR taken into account worth it?

    Now if you had a fixed number of routes (that might change with som later techs) you would also chose between the new city and alternative uses for the TRs. You would have to chose if alternative uses for the trade routes are better than helping that one city you consider building.

    Instead of a generic low yield 1 TR/city, you could have a set number of TRs that would yield enough to be meaningful, and also being able to use 2-3 in each of your biggest cities, or maybe use them to help grow your new cities. Basically the nerf doesn't need to be that big if you limit the max number, keeping them strategically significant.

    There might be other sollutions, or maybe 1 TR/city would work great, but as I said - I do fear it will be less of a choice and more of a auto-build-trade-route-in-new-city routine if it was pr city with no flexibility.
     
  7. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Best solution to that... Trade route yield depends on Output of the city sending the trade route (not the difference with the receiving city)

    ie an internal trade route from a city will give the recipient 15% of the sender's base production, and 5% of the sender's base food (sender gets nothing and you can mirror trade routes)

    So to get the best trade route output, get the best city output (where you send it depends on where you want the production/food)

    (external trade routes should be some combo of their output and yours..you =sender)
    ..they get 5% of your base output + 5% of theirs
    ..you get 10% of their base output +5% of yours
     
  8. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    There's way too much gain from trade. Reducing the number of routes will help but there would still be the problem that you can make more cities and have more trade. So what if this was countered the way civ 4 countered city expansion? Have each one have a maintenance cost and have the cost for each go up the more of them there are in total. I don't know if this is a good idea or not but it strikes me as a similar problem in that having more is so good that you just build more without thinking. This would reduce that because not every trade route would be worth having. As it is now even a 1 point yield you might as well have.
     
  9. Fabio1701

    Fabio1701 King

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    I am sick of constantly clicking to renew traderoutes and searching a huge list just to find the previous route. I suggest a trade route governor much like you can activate a city tile use governor based on whether you want food, production science etc.

    It would work like this, an option at the top of the traderoutes list lets me choose whether I want to concentrate on energy, science, production or food. Making the choice automatically selects the highest yield of my choice, and automatically renews this route. If the route is no longer the best choice, it automatically turns off and asks me again.

    what do you guys think?
     
  10. IphStich

    IphStich Chieftain

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    I'd been struggling to think of a good way to implement an auto renew trade route system. I actually really like this idea, and I do think I'll look into implementing it in my mod.
     
  11. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Two trade route suggestion threads merged
     
  12. RonMar

    RonMar Warlord

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    Yes, that might put a slight damper on trade. Right now the only cost of a trade route (other than its production cost) is that it counts against your total Unit Supply. I'm not sure what penalty you get when you exceed that, but it may affect your ability to build other units (military?) or their performance,
     
  13. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    I think the best would be to have maintenance costs tied to cities exactly like Civ4 and not to the trade routes.

    If it was pr city you have to take into account the terrain, resources and timing for expansion as well as develop the other cities first to earn energy. This is a more interesting stretegic decision.

    Also it would be rather strange if a mechanics which has one of its main functions providing energy, costing energy. For the same reason markets in CiV don't have a maintenance cost. However I would prefer if maintenance as a whole was tied to cities and units (and roads, to stop spam), not buildings.
     
  14. Teodosio

    Teodosio Warlord

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    Very simple fix for trade routes micro management hell.
    Trade routes last forever unless you manually stop them. You cannot stop a trade route before twenty turns have passed.
     
  15. Umbral Reaver

    Umbral Reaver Secret Wizard

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    Or: Automate-internal/Automate-external trade route buttons.
     
  16. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    I agree with the first half.

    I see nothing wrong with being able to cancel a trade route at any time.
     
  17. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    You would have to re-do them every 20 turns to maximise them anyway, though.

    The problem lies in the sheer number and power of them. Until they do something about that, nothing will change. Well, unless they make them PERMANENT.
     
  18. Barathor

    Barathor Emperor

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    Or just simply have the "previous route" always at the top of the list, for those that don't care to browse through the rest of them and want to quickly click through it. Right now, you have to scroll down to look for the label and the text isn't even highlighted or anything.
     
  19. Iduakil

    Iduakil Chieftain

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    +1 This fix would also give players an information while assigning 1,000,000 trade routes the minimal information whether or not the trade route I am about to assing is an old one or a brand new one (I can`t remember every build quoe order of my every city). This simple fix would HELP A LOT!
     
  20. dhialuck

    dhialuck Chieftain

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