Trading Company only available at Economics?

[jorissimo]

The Trading Company is normally available at Exploration. In my Portugal game it was, at least. Now, when playing as the Dutch, the TC was only available at Economics. Is this intended? It makes winning the UHV much more difficult. Am I missing something?

 

[Leoreth]

Portugal and Spain have earlier access to the Trading Company, at Exploration. Economics is the normal prerequisite for it.

 

[jorissimo]

Oh, I see. That's funny, because Spain and Portugal never had trading companies. Well, Portugal made a short-lived attempt, but only after the English and Dutch already had theirs. Only nations that were already proto-capitalist at the time and in which merchants rather than the nobility were dominant, like the Netherlands and England, successfully built these joint-stock companies. Related to this is the issue which SultanRedSnake mentioned in his Portuguese guide, that Portugal should start with regulated trade, not merchant trade.
In relation to the Dutch UHV: the Netherlands spawn, accurately, in 1580. The VOC, the Dutch East India Company was founded in 1610. In DoC it's pretty much impossible to get Economics by that date, let alone build the company, perhaps only if you burn a GM on Economics and a GE on the wonder (which in itself is already impossible), but then you won't be able to settle 3 GMs in Amsterdam in time. Given that the Dutch UP is related to the TC, it would be nice if the civ could actually enjoy it.

 

[Vectors]

Oh, I see. That's funny, because Spain and Portugal never had trading companies. Well, Portugal made a short-lived attempt, but only after the English and Dutch already had theirs. Only nations that were already proto-capitalist at the time and in which merchants rather than the nobility were dominant, like the Netherlands and England, successfully built these joint-stock companies. Related to this is the issue which SultanRedSnake mentioned in his Portuguese guide, that Portugal should start with regulated trade, not merchant trade.
In relation to the Dutch UHV: the Netherlands spawn, accurately, in 1580. The VOC, the Dutch East India Company was founded in 1610. In DoC it's pretty much impossible to get Economics by that date, let alone build the company, perhaps only if you burn a GM on Economics and a GE on the wonder (which in itself is already impossible), but then you won't be able to settle 3 GMs in Amsterdam in time. Given that the Dutch UP is related to the TC, it would be nice if the civ could actually enjoy it.

For Portugal it represents Estado da India because it is about the acquisition of colonial territories, not the trading company

 

[Nyayr]

The trade company build would set of the conquest or purchase of the dutch indies (Indonesia), which shouldn't happen in 1610 with the founding either but a lot later.

 

[jorissimo]

For Portugal it represents Estado da India because it is about the acquisition of colonial territories, not the trading company

The Estado da Índia was far less effective than the actual joint-stock companies though. They were pretty much kicked out of Indonesia by the VOC, except for East Timor. In India they never managed to conquer the kind of territory that the British East India Company was able to. That's why they too wanted to have a joint-stock company, which would have been able to gather a lot more capital, but failed because it was blocked by feudal interests.

The trade company build would set of the conquest or purchase of the dutch indies (Indonesia), which shouldn't happen in 1610 with the founding either but a lot later.

But the colonization process did begin around that time. Ambon on the Moluccans was conquered in 1609 and Jakarta (renamed Batavia) in 1619. But true, it did take centuries before the whole archipelago was conquered. That said, an interesting addition to the TC dynamic could be that you can trigger several events over time, rather than a single event leading to simultaneous conquests. That would reflect the gradual nature of the colonization process.