Trading Luxuries

Zaldrizes

Warlord
Joined
Jul 21, 2013
Messages
179
Location
San Diego
Skip to the bottom questions to get to the point! :)

Hey all. I'm new to the forums, and I've had a hard time finding certain answers through online searches, but this forum usually has the answers I need if I dig enough. So thank you for this awesome forum!

So, I just started playing CiV recently and I'm only on my first game, just Warlord difficulty. I started off as Rome and was enjoying several luxury trade agreements with Harun, who, of course, later went ballistic on me when I dared settle a desert town with Petra. The agreements we had when we were friendly were 1:1 deals. Now, if I ask him for anything, he asks for all my lux, strategic resources (abbrev?), gold, and an embassy for kicks. Hey, I understand that - we just got out of a war where I spanked him, so it would make sense that the less he likes me, the less he's willing to deal fairly.

I thus moved on to others to trade with, including Gus at Neutral; Isa, Hia, and Washington at Friendly; and Genghis and Sejong at Friendly with DoFs. This is where I got confused, because every one of them, including Washington who was tiny and feared my military, and even my "friends" traded exactly the same way as the now hostile Harun is trading. I have no negative modifiers (that I can see) with any player except for Harun. I even denounced Harun with Sejong and allowed him Open Borders when he asked after our DoF. No more 1:1's; not even close. And this is only Warlord (if that even matters).

Now, I'd understand this a little better if I also knew a small aspect of the trade screen, i.e. the Luxury Item section. To sum this up, my two sets of questions are as follows:

1) Are fair trades only possible early game or are they pretty much non-existent in peace-time?

2) When on the trade screen with Sejong, e.g., does "Copper (1)" means he only has 1 Copper period, or is that a copy he's trading? Would it have to say "Copper (2)" for him to actually have a copy to spare, and even then would I even get near a fair trade at this point (turn 130)?

Thanks for any help you can give. Thanks for humoring a long message from this forum and CiV noob. So far, I'm addicted, but that's been the case with every single Civ!

-Kev
 
The AI always wants an arm and a leg for the last copy of its luxury resource. (Even the Dutch)

That screen is slightly confusing because the count there excludes city state allies.
 
So when it says (1) of that resource, it is indeed the last of that resource they possess? That'd make sense why they're so stingy. I would be too. But you say that count excludes city-state allies? Do you mean that it could say he has 1 Copper, but that copper is actually from a city-state?

Wait, now that I think of it, there are only two CS alliances so far: mine with Brussels and Washington's with Marrakesh. Sejong, AFAIK, has no CS allies (according to the diplo victory screen).
 
So when it says (1) of that resource, it is indeed the last of that resource they possess? That'd make sense why they're so stingy. I would be too. But you say that count excludes city-state allies? Do you mean that it could say he has 1 Copper, but that copper is actually from a city-state?

Wait, now that I think of it, there are only two CS alliances so far: mine with Brussels and Washington's with Marrakesh. Sejong, AFAIK, has no CS allies (according to the diplo victory screen).

Case #1. He (or you): have no city state allies:

(1) Copper: That is the last Copper.

Case #2: City state allies exist but not those providing Copper but instead providing something else say Silver.

(1) Copper will show. That is the last Copper
The Silver won't be mentioned at all.

Case #3 City state ally providing the same resource.

(1) Copper will show. Which is his last personal Copper but the one from the city state won't be referenced. In this case, he'll normally trade at a reasonable price knowing he's really getting one from the city state.

The reason I mention this can be confusing is that possibility of the city state not hooking up the luxury resource yet (or someone pillaging it), you'd see the same number either way.
For that, you need to have visibility of his city state ally to determine weather or not its hooked up.
(In your own case it's simpler, there's a different resource screen that will add together both your connected luxuries and those you are getting from allies; along with noting both imports & exports.)
 
That was awesomely detailed. Thank you! This all makes sense even more now that I've encountered (since my last post) two civs selling the same resource with one left according to the trade screen, but one civ wanting an arm and a leg, yet the other trading somewhat fairly. There is probably a CS involved for the fair-trader, but I can't tell that's his last copper as you explain in Case #3. I really wish you could see all resources, but ah well, it's nothing major.

Thanks again for clearing this up for me. It was driving me nuts and deterring me from trade. Now I can go back to trading with more confidence. You rock.
 
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