Tradition and Baths

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Legen, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Legen

    Legen King

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    The Baths is a building that affects Tradition's consistency. It has a "Fresh water" requirement, which limits its construction based on terrain, while being synergistic with Tradition with the +2 :c5culture: Culture from Splendor and the tree's golden age focus. As such, a Tradition civ can see a notable difference in its power based on whether it spawned near rivers or lakes, making it the Ancient Era tree that is most affected by the terrain if finds itself, and I'd prefer to see this variance removed in some way.

    Would someone else like if there was some form of way for Tradition to secure Baths without relying on fresh water terrain? For instance, adding the ability to ignore the Bath's fresh water requirement in one of the policies, or giving Baths alternative enables, such as an Aqueduct in the city.
     
  2. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I would say that the main variance for Tradition is in the capital....sometimes you just don't get fresh water, and while the base culture is important, that culture multiplier is crucial for Tradition late game. I have heard ideas such as allowing the palace to be a bath requirement or things of that nature.

    So if you wanted to go a middle ground route, allow baths in the capital, and then for every other city that's up to the player to build the cities to make the most use of fresh water...or don't.
     
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  3. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    I would like if the tradition policy allows baths to be built in cities with an aqueduct. I just restart games without a fresh water capital anyway...
     
  4. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    i think adding that as an aqueduct property would be a cool idea, whether it’s tradition only or just straight up
     
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  5. DukeBrani

    DukeBrani Chieftain

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    I totally second that. I really hate when I need to choose between being near a fresh water resource or having production-heavy tiles in my first ring. This would also encourage me to build aqueduct earlier, as I normally don't care much about having high growth in cities (due to happiness issues).
     
  6. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    I have manually changed the files so that baths don't need freshwater to be built. I think this is the most simple solution and the most AI&human friendly.
     
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  7. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    I think I prefer baths being locked behind fresh water, except for tradition since they have the super baths. Authority and progress shouldn’t have access to baths on non fresh water cities they will have too much culture.
     
  8. John.B.C

    John.B.C Prince

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    I like it as it is. I enjoy the 'planing' involved when placing my cities. I don't mind restarting if I'm not close to 'fresh water'. I restart for different reasons anyways. :)

    EDIT: As tradition, baths already get a buff of +2 culture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
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  9. HungryForFood

    HungryForFood Prince

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    How about tradition cities grant fresh water? Seems like a fitting bonus for tradition.
     
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  10. Melchizedek

    Melchizedek Prince

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    I think the policy selection is a choice the player makes, so it isn't necessary to make Tradition consistent across maps. If the map doesn't support Tradition well, you can always choose another policy tree. Nobody would try to improve Authority's consistency on isolated starts or Progress' consistency in cramped space. That said, I don't mind making aqueducts unlock baths, either. Maybe aqueducts should take longer to build without fresh water, but unlock all fresh water benefits once completed?
     
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  11. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    A simple solution to have Tradition Capitals have Baths is to give the Building for free in one of the Policies.
     
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  12. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    I've also suggested in the past that any Capital or Holy City automatically be treated as a Fresh Water tile regardless of terrain.
     
  13. corps_of_discovery

    corps_of_discovery Chieftain

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    A simple and thematically appropriate fix would be to have the Palace Gardens (from Tradition policy) provide fresh water. The bath is far and away most important in the capital anyway.

    For a nice symmetry, Hanging Gardens (WW) and Sacred Garden (religious NW) could provide fresh water too. Not that these need a buff, but it wouldn't effect game balance all that much and would provide just a touch more flavor to the game.
     
  14. LifeOfBrian

    LifeOfBrian King

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    If all of the above suggestions are too cumbersome to code, I'd just have the Tradition finisher provide free Baths in the capital.
     
  15. stormfallen

    stormfallen Warlord

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    IMO just make an aqueduct be an alternate prerequisite to fresh water for baths; no need to lock it to Tradition.
     
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  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    This makes a lot of sense to me... That's kind of what an aqueduct does
     
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  17. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    The aqueduct is a more niche building than the baths in my opinion, for example coastal cities with relatively few strong tiles don't need to invest in growth and often won't have fresh water.
     

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