[BNW] Tradition: Three Cities Approaches (BNW)

[joncnunn]

Is the one horse for 2gpt thing considered as an exploit or not? Since the AI doesn't give that much gold if you sell in bulk.

I personally think it is. However, I can't stop myself from using it either.

 

[iamflatline]

I think this strategy is going to need an overhaul after today's patch. Oligarchy is now a pre-req for Legalism!

 

[Browd]

Probably need to include building a monument in the early build order, since waiting for Legalism and the free monument may not be the best plan anymore.

 

[neilkaz]

Probably need to include building a monument in the early build order, since waiting for Legalism and the free monument may not be the best plan anymore.

There also may now be choices between early monument or early shrine.

 

[beetle]

I have gotten in the habit of hard building monument in capital anyway, sine the free amphitheater feels like it more than makes up for that. But my timing was often poor, and Legalism would be an option when I only had a couple turns left on the monument build. So I often delayed Legalism...

This nerf to Tradition is a feature for me!

 

[Tabarnak]

Yeah the latest patch complicates thing a bit. Either do a monument start or reload until you get an early culture ruin and follow the same paths.

It will automatically slows down things a bit but that's true for any kind of Trad starts anyway.

I added a note at the beginning of the strategy guide.

 

[joncnunn]

With needing an opener + a junk policy to reach to Legalism, it's on average going to be faster to hand build the monument in the capital than not. (Right after a scout) If you don't get a cultural monument and are really fast to settle a second city (playing Spain and discover a Natural Wonder) it may also be faster to build a monument in that one as well.

Another feature of hand building that Monument is that you don't have to decide the turn you complete the first scout which path to take between Tradition & Liberty but can wait until you hit 25 culture.

 

[GunnarStahl]

Sorry to bump an old thread like this one, but I was wondering if this opening could still be usable?

I am looking for solid basics to get more familiar with the game and I thought a solid basic opening could help me a lot. By "mastering" one, I could - after that - tweak it a little bit.

 

[Browd]

It is still very usable (and useful).

 

[GunnarStahl]

It is still very usable (and useful).

That's good news. I was looking for something like this to help me out.

So I will try to learn this stuff and use it. I'll be able to get NC faster than I ever did with this, thus helping me a lot!

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I used it just last week to win a korean space race on immortal - flat, no contest, didn't need to conquer anyone. I $-bought and founded a 4th city for resources after NC and built on from there. It's quite solid even after the nerf. You'll want to get monuments in before the free amphitheaters policy (and probably take the wonders policy as a detour to get NC even faster).

Also worth looking into: Liberty Domination Guide which is a very good take on the liberty tree and what you can leverage from it.

 

[GunnarStahl]

Wow... I tried this strat a few times on KING to get used to it. My main goal was to get NC before 90th turn and not being bullied/DoW until then. If I occured to be DoW'd, well, another goal was to survive.

I failed. Three times. I kinda feel discouraged by this game now heh!

If I play on Prince, I got no challenge and can win pretty easily, cruising to the end, getting <T280 wins. But on King, man, get my arse kicked every freaking time. Dido DoW'd me on T112 with a 60k score army.

GG Darius.

 

[beetle]

@GS, folks here definitely want to help you out, and for you not to be discouraged. You should be able to thrive at King, just by tuning your Prince game a little more. Especially if you are following this guide. My initial suspicion is that you are holding over a few bad habits. Are you hard building wonders? How many cities and units did you have when Dido DoW'd you on T112? Also, score is almost meaningless. Dido is about as treacherous an AI as there is, but you should be able to hold her off and then punish her.

 

[GunnarStahl]

@GS, folks here definitely want to help you out, and for you not to be discouraged. You should be able to thrive at King, just by tuning your Prince game a little more. Especially if you are following this guide. My initial suspicion is that you are holding over a few bad habits. Are you hard building wonders? How many cities and units did you have when Dido DoW'd you on T112? Also, score is almost meaningless. Dido is about as treacherous an AI as there is, but you should be able to hold her off and then punish her.

No, not building wonders (except NC). I got it at about T110 (so late...)

I had 3 cities. All of 'em had Granary+Library. Persepolis 8 pop, and the two others 7.

I had 6 archers (or 5...), 1 immortal and 1 Chariot Archer.

Dido came in with at least 4 of those "elephants" and 3 swordsmen. I was pretty much trampled.

I'Ve tried many time with Mr. Tabarnak's guide and I can't get my freaking NC before T100

 

[beetle]

No problem building national wonders, and T110 NC is okay, especially at King.
The population of your cities, especially your cap, seems low to me. I would think by T100 you should be breaking double digits. Are you trying to micro manage tiles? Is your happiness okay?
You had 6 or 7 units, the same as Dido, so she really should not have been a problem. The AI fights so poorly, that being out numbered 3:1 even should not result in you losing a city. But city defense like that takes practice. Can you reload back to a few turns before Dido's DoW? The single fortified immortal in city first ring (don't attack with him, just let him try and absorb the elephant hits), and three archers (on in city, two behind) should be enough. But those are CBs not archers, right?

 

[GunnarStahl]

Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.

No problem building national wonders, and T110 NC is okay, especially at King.

Oh really? I thought it was a really slow NC. I watched a few of Acken's let's play and his NC are pre-T90... on Deity!

Are you trying to micro manage tiles?

Yes.

Is your happiness okay?

I ran thru a few problem. 7 Unhapiness. Two of my lux were pillaged by a Barb and my Immortal was a bit too far. (I learnt from that )

You had 6 or 7 units, the same as Dido, so she really should not have been a problem. The AI fights so poorly, that being out numbered 3:1 even should not result in you losing a city. But city defense like that takes practice. Can you reload back to a few turns before Dido's DoW? The single fortified immortal in city first ring (don't attack with him, just let him try and absorb the elephant hits), and three archers (on in city, two behind) should be enough.

So basically I should have put my Immortal on fortify to absorb Elephant+Swords hit? And Archers BEHIND city too... interesting.

But those are CBs not archers, right?

They were Archers. Not CBs. I built them pretty early without Construction, and I didn't have the money to upgrade them.

 

[phillipwyllie]

...Oh really? I thought it was a really slow NC. I watched a few of Acken's let's play and his NC are pre-T90... on Deity!....

You suffer a few disadvantages when not playing on the higher difficulties, some of them are:
1.)You wont be able to steal a worker or 2 for the AI for some time, on Deity they get 2(I believe) at the start.
2.)Every civ you meet makes techs they know cheaper for you. On Deity they are half way to the Classical age when they start so the early techs are cheaper.

 

[beetle]

Sure, NC earlier is better, but give yourself all due credit! T110 NC is really slow for Acken and the other great players. It is more than fast enough to have a strong game.

Just dipping once into negative happiness won&#8217;t kill your game, and -7 is not much different than -1. Being at -1 for 20+ turns is a problem.

Micro managing tiles is harder than it looks. Compare what you think is good to what the default governor thinks is good, including how many turns for the city to grow. At launch, the governor did a terrible job picking tiles / specialists. And some people can't stand losing one hammer every time the city grows. But it is very easy to sabotage your game by locking tiles. I strongly recommend you give that up for now, and spend your time and energy on other game aspects. Like not losing cities/units when fighting at 2:1 odds.

Gold to upgrade archers to CBs is something I also struggle with. Especially against the conventional wisdom to rush buy all your science buildings. CBs are sooo much stronger than archers though. 3 archers against a T112 hoard would not be enough. 3 CBs should be fine.

Yes, ranged units behind the city so they are safely screened. That is 4 shots a turn, 2 elephants dying every turn. Your city will end the conflict in the red, but it will last 3 turns. Then you start marching your veterans towards Carthage...

 

[GunnarStahl]

Just dipping once into negative happiness won’t kill your game, and -7 is not much different than -1. Being at -1 for 20+ turns is a problem.

Micro managing tiles is harder than it looks. Compare what you think is good to what the default governor thinks is good, including how many turns for the city to grow. At launch, the governor did a terrible job picking tiles / specialists. And some people can't stand losing one hammer every time the city grows. But it is very easy to sabotage your game by locking tiles.

I think I was -7 for a few turns... well, the number of turns required to repair both lux.

So basically, you're saying I should not lock tiles? And just check "Growth" when I want to grow and "Production" when I want - let's say - my NC?

 

[AdrianTarkin]

Definitely one of my favorite ways to play.