[BNW] Tradition: Three Cities Approaches (BNW)

[reddishrecue]

The 3 city approach is usually best for most difficulty levels for me. Tradition was easier to understand for me.

 

[beetle]

Sorry to not be more timely in getting back to this question...

So basically, you're saying I should not lock tiles? And just check "Growth" when I want to grow and "Production" when I want - let's say - my NC?

Yes, that is what *I* am saying -- but I encourage you to experiment and decide for yourself. I don’t use production focus for NC or most National Wonders since two or three turns hardly matters (Oxford can be an exception). I will use production focus for the (rare) hard-built World Wonder, and often during International Projects.

 

[reddishrecue]

Sorry to not be more timely in getting back to this question...



Yes, that is what *I* am saying -- but I encourage you to experiment and decide for yourself. I don’t use production focus for NC or most National Wonders since two or three turns hardly matters (Oxford can be an exception). I will use production focus for the (rare) hard-built World Wonder, and often during International Projects.

I also have been doing something similar except when the international project era. Fail gold anyways is also useful because you can purchase necessaries afterwards.

 

[wayneb64]

I have always favored Liberty over Tradition (although I always take the Tradition opener) because I have always had to build extra cities to get extra luxuries and keep up with Happiness ceilings. Just how many luxuries in total do these three cities need to have and just how big can these three cities get in the first part of the game?

I certainly see the power of growth with Tradition, but the never ending happiness battle makes me prioritize growth a bit lower. Does Monarchy really keep happiness in check as these three cities get big?

 

[joncnunn]

I have always favored Liberty over Tradition (although I always take the Tradition opener) because I have always had to build extra cities to get extra luxuries and keep up with Happiness ceilings. Just how many luxuries in total do these three cities need to have and just how big can these three cities get in the first part of the game?

I certainly see the power of growth with Tradition, but the never ending happiness battle makes me prioritize growth a bit lower. Does Monarchy really keep happiness in check as these three cities get big?

Yup, especially in the capital since Monarchy removes half the population based unhappiness from it. At 3 cities Tradition works really well even with just 2 unique luxury types between them and totally isolated. (Although in this case you'd need to prioritize Circus Maximus) At 4 cities with only 2 unique luxury types between them all you pretty much need an AI to trade luxuries with by mid game.

 

[Nonevah]

How do you choose where to settle with such a quick first settler? It seems to me like you wouldn't really have enough info for the best spot, unless you limited your worker and your scout just to investigating around you capital.

 

[Tabarnak]

How do you choose where to settle with such a quick first settler? It seems to me like you wouldn't really have enough info for the best spot, unless you limited your worker and your scout just to investigating around you capital.

You should have time to scout around even at quick speed with only a warrior and a scout early on.

 

[InDubioProReo]

Sure, NC earlier is better, but give yourself all due credit! T110 NC is really slow for Acken and the other great players. It is more than fast enough to have a strong game.

Just dipping once into negative happiness won’t kill your game, and -7 is not much different than -1. Being at -1 for 20+ turns is a problem.

Micro managing tiles is harder than it looks. Compare what you think is good to what the default governor thinks is good, including how many turns for the city to grow. At launch, the governor did a terrible job picking tiles / specialists. And some people can't stand losing one hammer every time the city grows. But it is very easy to sabotage your game by locking tiles. I strongly recommend you give that up for now, and spend your time and energy on other game aspects. Like not losing cities/units when fighting at 2:1 odds.

Gold to upgrade archers to CBs is something I also struggle with. Especially against the conventional wisdom to rush buy all your science buildings. CBs are sooo much stronger than archers though. 3 archers against a T112 hoard would not be enough. 3 CBs should be fine.

Yes, ranged units behind the city so they are safely screened. That is 4 shots a turn, 2 elephants dying every turn. Your city will end the conflict in the red, but it will last 3 turns. Then you start marching your veterans towards Carthage...

About the T.110 NC game, I had a game where my NC was late, something like 109. I thought my science would suck, but around Industrial I was only behind 3%. I think I'm starting to wonder how late you can get the NC.

Then again, when I could GE the NC those games became really substantially easier science wise, with me gaining tech leadership around Renaissance. Finishing NC at something like T.70-75 with a GE gives enormous advantage.

 

[Absoleus]

Just wanted to thank you Tabarnak, since your build-order and advices allowed me to properly stomp the AI in my first Immortal game (I was still happy with Emperor difficulty until a few days ago).
Moving now to Deity.
I did not know (after 600+ hours spent on that game) that NC was so important to get early, and I did not give food so much importance.

 

[baboon]

Thanks for this guide, especially the detailed differences between going for religion or not were enlighening.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I have always favored Liberty over Tradition (although I always take the Tradition opener) because I have always had to build extra cities to get extra luxuries and keep up with Happiness ceilings. Just how many luxuries in total do these three cities need to have and just how big can these three cities get in the first part of the game?

I certainly see the power of growth with Tradition, but the never ending happiness battle makes me prioritize growth a bit lower. Does Monarchy really keep happiness in check as these three cities get big?

Heh, arent the happiness struggles actually what stops us from building many cities ?

I just started playing civ. Just finished my first game (difficulty 5) Started out with 3 cities of my own, they covered 5 luxes. My neighbour got pissed at me for taking all the luxes (they were nearer to him than me) and attacked me so i took his only city in the classical age to proceed with 4 cities and now 6 luxes. In the medieval age i built myself a 5th city to capture a 7th lux and iron.
I never had luxury difficulties except for the very start where i didnt yet have enough worker capacity and researches to get them all hooked up. (at mouse over, they really should inform me that i need not only calendar, but also bronze working )

In mid game i traded for extra luxuries. In late game i actually had a happiness overdose and sold rather than traded my luxuries, sometimes even the only 1 i had. I then proceeded to use that money to buy the favour of city states to gain more luxuries that i could then sell again. Got to this idea after i noted that my only significant competetor in the game has allied nearly all the city states and that i should do something about that

All my cities grew unbridled. I ended up winning culturally as brazil just before researching internet with my 5 cities ranging from size 25 to 35 and dozens of happiness to spare.

Now this way of playing was very unnatural to me. In a distant past, i was a civ3 player who was very adamant about the basic principles to always make the choises that lead to more food per turn and more expansions either by the settler or by the sword. My favority plan was to win by horsemen into knight conquest. I want to try that approach again, but i dont yet see how. Espescialy in that early time when you are not yet trading luxes from everyone. God forbid the period before you can hook them all up. So ye, i hope to make the liberty approach work, but i dont really yet know how. Seems to me they killed early rexing with that 3 unhappiness per city and early conquest with the extra conquest unhappiness as well as the warmonger reputation which will prevent me from trading more luxes.