My roommate and I are relatively new to vox populi (about 100 hours for both of us) and we've been loving this mod. However, we both are having trouble figuring out when to take tradition tree. We play on standard size map, standard speed, king difficulty, chill barbarians, and 6 bots (in addition to us 2). Even with civs that have a hard leaning to tradition starts like brazil, i feel like it's to damaging to my early game to take it over progress. Most of our game we start out grabbing the progress opener, then grabbing tradition opener, before going back to progress to finish it. Or, we never dip into tradition at all if we have a good amount of food at start. By turn 100, both of us have between 5-7 cities, and if we are playing a wide civ, like china, we'll keep going from there, but otherwise stop with the more tall civs. Anytime we try tradition, are secondary cities struggle to get off the ground and grind our empire to the sputtering pace of stop and go traffic, mostly because of unhappiness. I also feel like tradition gives way to many specialist slots for your capital to reasonably use early game, and possibly even going into mid game. Are we settling to fast for a tradition start? Are we settling to many cities? Is tradition supposed to wait till really late to shine? I want to play a more traditional civ, but i am having trouble convincing myself that tradition is better then progress, contrary to what most people believe on here. Thanks for any help you guys can give!