Tradition -> ???

[futurehermit]

I can't help but feel in my games that Tradition is the strongest way to go the large majority of the time.

However, I'm curious what tree people most often go for after Tradition?

Piety makes sense if one is confident in a cultural path, but, otherwise...?

 

[Moriarte]

Rationalism. Sometimes early culture is too good. In that case i'll open 1-2 in Patronage/Commerce, while wating for Renaissance.

 

[joncnunn]

Some of the common filler social policy techs with Tradition while waiting for Rationalism:

Honor opener only : Culture from killing barbs; aggressive barbs on maps where there is plenty of barb country near you; however when this is the case, you are likely to already have it (Tradition opener -> Honor opener -> Rest of tradition)

Patronage: Opener + the policy increasing resting point by 20 to city states. Combine with pledge to protect every city state (make those early) and have friends status for free with every city state in the game 20 turns after you take the policy for the rest of the game. (Minor downside: This will sour relations with the AIs unless you skip the city states they are bullying)

Commerce left side: On maps where every city is coastal, get some extra production in every city. (Also get improved naval movement and sight) (Minor problem: This is four policies, and so unless you put effect into getting cultural city state allies it's going to slow down Rationalism)

And yes; in G&K Tradition does appear to obvious a first choice; it's due to the four free aqueducts; but simply removing removing them would switch us back to Liberty being too obvious a first choice.

 

[Light Cleric]

Right-side Honor is a pretty solid choice if you've got solid culture output and plan on warmongering, in particular Professional Army is a very good policy. I probably wouldn't bother with the left side at that point in the game but that's just me.

Otherwise, I often go Rationalism afterwards or the Patronage opener if I missed the Renaissance timing. I usually find the slower CS influence decay saves more money than I earn from the Commerce opener over the long run unless the capital is very heavy in gold resources.

 

[Buccaneer]

Seems like more of my games (when I get around to playing) emphasize city-states alliances mid-game - mainly for science, culture and buffers. I get to Scholarship in Patronage and if I have time, Aesthetics before going to Rationalism.

 

[Dogmouth]

It depends on the map and victory conditions. I'm a big fan of the right-hand side of commerce for domination. On a water map, I'll also take the left-hand side.

 

[futurehermit]

I'm starting to settle into a thought process of the following:

Tradition --> Piety (Cultural)
Tradition --> Patronage (partial) --> Rationalism (Science)
Liberty --> Commerce (Domination, Rex opening)
Honor --> Commerce (Domination, Rush opening)

Edit to add: Granted, it does depend on map/situation, I'm just talking about on average/general approaches. Also, Tradition --> Rationalism straight out if can get to Renaissance in time, but I often find I don't make it in time, but I also play a lot of France.

Another reason why I find that I almost select Tradition by default most of the time is that REXing leads to so many diplo hits that it's impossible to stay peaceful much of the time. "You're building cities too aggressively," "You built in my territory," "Now, as a result, I covet your land," "You broke your promise to not settle by me, since I think that all of the land is mine and you settled another city," "We're at war because I dislike you," "I dislike you because we used to be at war," "My friend denounced you because you settled next to him," etc. etc.

 

[joncnunn]

On immortal; being slow to found cities also leads to war.

AI sends settlers without escorts from their starting landmass to your starting landmass to near your future city location:
So you need to DOW them to keep them from founding the city (and you get a free worker).
Funny thing is that the AI continues to send those settlers without escorts so you can get so many workers you need to disband some of them if you continue to be slow to found the city.

(My current game I captured four Arab settlers before I got around to founding the city; its a marginal city site)

 

[Dogmouth]

Tradition --> Piety (Cultural)
Tradition --> Patronage (partial) --> Rationalism (Science)
Liberty --> Commerce (Domination, Rex opening)
Honor --> Commerce (Domination, Rush opening)

Why not Tradition --> Commerce (Domination)?

Four core cities plus a crap ton of puppets is a perfectly good way to start the domination ball rolling. Annexing a handful later is helpful, but not necessary. Happiness is a constraint, but you can deal with it through religion, mercantile CSs, and other social policies.

 

[futurehermit]

Tradition --> Commerce (Domination) is viable, of course, maybe even optimal given how strong Tradition is right now. I like having a couple more troop-producing cities early on and I'm partial to meritocracy for wide empires.

 

[Wargizmo]

I've been going patronage and aesthetics more and more recently, to the point where if I don't get it then come turn 150 my Civ just feels really weak and underpowered. All that culture, happiness, faith, food and units just adds up and enables you to focus on science without falling behind in other areas.

For those unaware, if you take aesthetics and then pledge to protect you get free friends status with every CS.

 

[budweiser]

I've been going patronage and aesthetics more and more recently, to the point where if I don't get it then come turn 150 my Civ just feels really weak and underpowered. All that culture, happiness, faith, food and units just adds up and enables you to focus on science without falling behind in other areas.

For those unaware, if you take aesthetics and then pledge to protect you get free friends status with every CS.

Do you ever try getting that before you finish Tradition?

 

[Wargizmo]

Do you ever try getting that before you finish Tradition?

Never thought about it to be honest. It might be worth it if you could unlock medieval before your 5th policy (since Aristocracy and Oligarchy aren't that good). The patronage opener would also give you a nice way to keep those friends you made doing early quests. Aesthetics also gives the bonus to city states you haven't met yet, so it's good to have even if you haven't explored the map yet.

My gut feeling though is that that instant 55% growth bonus from finishing tradition (given the aqueducts are basically an extra 40% growth) is too good to pass up on early on.

I might try this for the next deity challenge game.

 

[budweiser]

Never thought about it to be honest. It might be worth it if you could unlock medieval before your 5th policy (since Aristocracy and Oligarchy aren't that good). The patronage opener would also give you a nice way to keep those friends you made doing early quests. Aesthetics also gives the bonus to city states you haven't met yet, so it's good to have even if you haven't explored the map yet.

My gut feeling though is that that instant 55% growth bonus from finishing tradition (given the aqueducts are basically an extra 40% growth) is too good to pass up on early on.

I might try this for the next deity challenge game.

Thanks for the reply. My gut says finishing one tree before you move on to the next is suboptimal.

 

[Tabarnak]

For those unaware, if you take aesthetics and then pledge to protect you get free friends status with every CS.

I experimented this for the deity challenge #3(built Oracle to get there faster). Not used units at all but for happiness it helped me a lot. Great way to keep friendly 3-4 maritime cs for a nice food growth in capital and some extra culture.

The main problem is to get these 2 policies and keep a good culture rate to not delay Rationalism and Order policies too much. Fortunately you can be friendly with some cultural cs which is good in that sense. An early cultural ally can get you aesthetics without crippling the culture pace.

 

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for the reply. My gut says finishing one tree before you move on to the next is suboptimal.

Except the Rationalism finisher - you want to delay that (if cultural or science) and get into Order before using the finisher at a better (i.e., later) time.

 

[Gimasag3]

I like to finish Tradition, go on to Liberty, than Patronage or Commerce depending on my economic situation. I usually go halfway through before taking Rationalism.