Tradition's 3 cities(food focused) opening

[Tabarnak]

Best learning remain videos. This worth 1 millions of thousand words

Of course we are all talking about players who REALLY want the fastest possible times...there is no way to separate casual players that just want to explore possibilities of actually just having fun with the game instead of math playing until death(and still having fun...i hope) to get the Holy Grail of civ5.

Tommy...this site is actually...public. If you want an hardcore site i think you gonna need to start one yourself.

 

[tommynt]

Tommy...this site is actually...public

does that mean that spreading wrong and bad information has to be "the standard"?

At least the "strategy + tips" section SHOULD contain good information imo.

For the usual spam posts majority want do there is the general section, thats ok i guess.
But if some1 actually is looking for tips and browsing to this section he should get good information.

 

[manu-fan]

IMHO, each thread in Strategy and Tips should state a difficulty the thread is aimed at. Then, you can have hardcore threads about Deity and whatever, and also some more beer and pretzel threads about Prince and below.

There are still strategies and tips at lower difficulties, just different ones.

 

[Luven]

It took me quite a while to get regular wins on Deity the main reason being, I wanted to perfect „my own“ Strategies. I had a personal preference for going wide with religion. At some point I had to realize and admit that some things are just better than others. Going for religion is pretty hard anyway and wide is kinda meh aswell. And even if you get that faith pantheon your still better off with tradition.
– It was my own Head which prevented me from getting good fast. –
Tradition is simply the most efficient or „best“ tree at the moment for almost every situation.

The reason being the rules and limitations of the game systems / mechanics.

Liberty is suited for going wide it sais in the Description of the Policy tree, but it is simply not true. What really grinds my gears ist that it would be really easy to fix.

Give Liberty another Happiness bonus, so you get about two per City instead of one.

Isnt it oubvious that Honor should get a production boost somewhere ?

Piety I would patch with "free Temples for first four Cities", somewhere in the tree, and get rid of „Pantheon from second Religion“ and instead something like, Missionairies generate 5 gold, science, culture for each Citizen they convert. (You convert 5 Citizens you get 25 each).

Don’t take my Numbers too seriously. It’s more about the direction I’d go than the exact numbers.

 

[Conspirator]

Liberty-Tradition is powerful in MP because you can build GL (and bulb Philosophy) while everyone else is building a Settlers, use free settler second city to build Pyramids no problems (cuz no one else can build it so no need to rush it) then Settler, Settler, Oracle in cap and onto 4 city NC by turn 70. Oracle + GL will give you a GS at around turn 90 and Oracle allows u to open Rationalism when tradition players would.

Its so so easy to achieve this right now on multiplayer games because no one goes liberty so you essentially are gaurenteed to get those 3 wonders. so you get everything, tradition growth, liberty production, big population capital and 3 cities, strong science, fast workers, minimal delay to get monarch and close tradition for aqueducts and early rationalism open.

Single player immortal or diety Im not so sure this can all be achieved cuz you can't get GL unless you got a salt start. Liberty open in MP and you are 90% sure to get GL.

 

[hai 1]

Idk what I would even do with myself if I got GL lol, after playing so much immortal/diety. It is so incredibly strong, but so hard to get that I would rarely if ever try for it. I never play mp, but in sp though the power of going trad/lib hybrid isn't contingent on getting GL. Rather, it's dependent on a high early social policy game (early culture ruin in particular to get trad opener rolling, but also the oracle to some extent). The extra culture that comes naturally through the policies (trad opener, liberty opener, free cultural buildings) facilitates the acquisition of extra SP's a bit.

Poland's ability to pull off hybrid starts is no secret. They are the only civ that should even consider going right-side liberty after finishing up tradition. You've probably seen tommy's awesome guide for them. Shoshone can also pull if off consistently because they can control the early culture ruin. They also typically have high early production with their access to extra tiles from the get-go, making The Oracle a bit easier to secure. Some people like it on civs with culture UI's like France (I didn't play pre-BNW, but I bet something similar worked great with their old UA) and Poly, but I'm not sold on the idea of sacrificing food/hammers/gold for culture early-mid game. For the rest of the civs it is more situational.

 

[Conspirator]

The Aztecs are also awash with culture at the start and are fantastic at the hybrid opening.

Thing with SP is it's just too easy to make gold from AI so it opens up a lot of possibilities that shouldn't exist if the AI was actually smart. in MP things are just completely different. In my opinion trad-lib hybrid is only good in MP games at the moment because it gaurentees GL, Pyramids and Oracle, and that's only because in 90% of 6max FFA games everyone goes Tradition leaving those wonders well within the Liberty players grasp allowing liberty tradition hybrid to snowball into super charged 4 city tradition empire ready to invade or glass cannon science.

 

[Tabarnak]

More you build wonders, more you are at risk against strong players. Everything starting with ''Build the GL first'' must be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Memoryjar]

The überbest superspeed thing was btw:
Monument, granny, worker, gl, nc --> 3x settler pyras
but needs quite some good land with big production to be able to build gl and nc superfast and not delay settling next cities too much (free settler comes about when gl finishes) so build nc while settler wanders to some far spot.

sp is a bit different as u can buy some settlers - that weakens mix a bit -and make both starts closer to each other.

Actually, I wonder how you manage gold with this fast start. SP, of course. Because, Monarchy is so far with Lib/trad, money hurts.
OCC NC ensure you saving in early turns, but after when you plant your cities and pyras land, gold is really low.
It's around 7 gpt maybe 8 or 9 (I don't understand units maintenance), and you have no building maintenance in other cities.

PS: Browd, if you see that, what is the maths for gold income in a city and units maintenance ?

does that mean that spreading wrong and bad information has to be "the standard"?

At least the "strategy + tips" section SHOULD contain good information imo.

For the usual spam posts majority want do there is the general section, thats ok i guess.
But if some1 actually is looking for tips and browsing to this section he should get good information.

The best often comes from the worst. If you select the information, you'll probably send an innovation to the garbage. Elitism didn't work in human history.

 

[Silverfuturist]

Its so so easy to achieve this right now on multiplayer games because no one goes liberty so you essentially are gaurenteed to get those 3 wonders. so you get everything, tradition growth, liberty production, big population capital and 3 cities, strong science, fast workers, minimal delay to get monarch and close tradition for aqueducts and early rationalism open.

Granted land is a huge factor, but around what turn (quick speed) are you:
1. Getting your 2nd, 3rd, 4th city planted
2. Finishing National College
3. Closing Tradition
4. Getting into Renaissance age.
5. Opening Rationalism
6. Getting to Industrial age

#1 is very important because... if you wait too long, often the ideal city spots are taken when you are playing with good players. In fact, I have found that claiming territory early in the game is one of the most critical things to do.

 

[Tabarnak]

A better and enhanced strategy is online! Go here instead. A video with explanations will be added in some days