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Tradition's 4 cities opening

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tabarnak, Jul 9, 2012.

  1. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    I do play quick speed for mp games. Quick speed is usually a bit slower than standard for finish times because you have less turns to move your units and therefore you get less benefits from (also less)actions taken.

    If you really want to compare, just do Quick*1.5 = Standard speed
     
  2. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    On small maps I'd call this the 3-city strategy. 4 cities on a small map almost feels like ICS :D
     
  3. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    I am currently playing a continents map on Emperor as Willem using this strat. It's currently around 1862AD and my beaker rate is at 833. My capital has a pop of 20, and my other 4 cities are at 32, 16, 18, and 14. I have a puppet at 7. I think the pop in my cap is too small. At turn 124, my pop per city was 6-7-8-6. Is that about right? On T151, my science rate was 80. I just don't know if this makes sense. It seems like this strat delay writing and Libraries and the NC.

    I am however 2nd in Literacy behind Haiwatha. He has 12 cities on another continent. Probably a stupid question but is this the reason why he is leading? How do you deal with a runaway AI on a different continent?

    As for the strat, I spawned next to Ghengis and Ethiopia. As expected, they were pissed but I fought off their DOWs. I had to fight off Ghengis on 4 sepetate DOWs. I think this may have slowed me down - instead of rush-buying buildings, I had to rush-buy defense.

    Any comments would be great.
     
  4. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Not right. At 124 all cities should be over 10 pop (capital at ~15) and 80 beakers at 155 is definitely too low. Did you build universities and assign scientists? You should do that asap. All science buildings have the highest priority, assuming you aim for science/diplo and not domination victory.

    He has 12 cities. That's why. :) Probably overpopulated as well.
    He's a good partner to sign RA's with though.

    Maybe, however rush buying several archers + upgrades shouldn't have had a huge impact.
     
  5. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    I want to try doing a 4 city game with just Tradition and no Liberty, but I cant ever unlock Rationalism before my 7th policy pick and always need to waste a policy opening something else :( (same with if I just take Liberty only).
     
  6. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

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    This is one of the key ideas if you want to get a really fast science victory. In the games where I've been winning around turn 230 I have taken all of tradition and then straight into rationalism. This can be tricky or simple depending on your tech rate. In my best game I had 290 bpt on turn 140, and if you can accelerate your science that fast it makes getting acoustics or astronomy open in time a much easier task.

    I've been going for 3 or 4 cities depending on dirt, settling my second city with a rush bought library and then building NC in the capital before expanding to the 3rd or 4th city.

    Getting Education as quickly as possible is important, so you want to tech for your resources and then beeline it through Civil Service. Then if you have observatory spots you can take the water techs and into Astronomy, or just take Acoustics alternatively.

    You want Education fast so you can start running scientists but also so you can sign RAs as early as possible. In GandK you need to sign 4 waves of RAs, as things stand now, in order to complete the required spaceship techs. It's for this reason that babylon is still the best science civ, the early accelerated bpt gets Education open faster than any other civ. So if you finish Education on turn 90 your RAs will come on 120, 150, 180 and 210 giving you 20 turns to build the parts. The later you sign the RAs the later you will finish.

    The amount of DoFs limits how fast you can finish, but I've found on deity that 4 - 6 stable partners is normal. The early RAs matter much less than the later ones.
     
  7. mike678

    mike678 Warlord

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    If you rush to education then to acoustics you should be able to make it.
     
  8. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Its made even harder because I want the Oracle too on top the GLib and that speeds up my social policy progression far too much. And the other problem with Tradition only is that I cant grab 4 free Ampitheatres because I wont have 4 cities + monuments built by my fourth policy pick.
     
  9. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

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    I just take monuments from tradition as I want to get the growth modifiers asap. And yeah the oracle is hands off until you're in renaissance, occasionally on deity no one builds it by then and it'll help you to scientific revolution for your second wave of RAs. Usually you'll miss out on it, but there are other more important things to spend hammers on if the oracle is only gonna give you one point in patronage or commerce.
     
  10. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    I usually pick my 7th policy for patronnage with Oracle(if possible) because i ally a bunch of cs. Then i open rationalism after acoustics for pangea and astronomy for other maps, if i'm going deep into the tech tree. I think that for cultural and domination it is not necessary.

    Snarz talks about going 2 cities then NC but i feel that 4 cities before NC is better for raw power but this let you less DoF partners for the long run. Take your choice! Both are viable for competitive finish times for science and diplo victories.

    I made a game with extreme pushover thanks to a great starting position shared by this member, deity level, standard speed, pangea. I finished with a science victory at turn 208 with an average of 2 RAs per wave. Of course i pissed a lot of AI, but with a such start nothing could really stop this empire(had tech lead after only 70 turns). With proper decisions(i lost my 4th city to Askia before retaking it) i''m sure that this map and start offers the very rare possibility to do a science victory under 200 turns.
     
  11. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    I also prefer 4 cities before NC, and thats just too slow without Collective Rule. I cant move away from Tradition > Liberty > Republic > Collective Rule > fill tradition > fill Liberty > Rationalism.

    Free Ampitheatres is also an extra 4 GPT over free Monuments, and more hammers saved. Opera houses come too late now and I want those Aqueducts long before then.
     
  12. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Alternatively, you can focus on growth and not waste hammers on wonders. Also 4 amphitheaters don't help the timing. Even one doesn't. I tried to build the monument in capital for at least one free amphitheater, however this usually messes things up. I tend to 'accidentally' befriend CS, some of them cultural. Last time missed Rationalism by 2 turns. Fortunately, Oracle wasn't gone yet. Otherwise that could be a major setback. You need to monitor your cpt very closely.
     
  13. Franks

    Franks Warlord

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  14. yanner39

    yanner39 Emperor

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    Thanks Pilgrim. I need to revisit turn 124. I don't know why my growth was stifled. Even when I production focus, I'm usually conscious of always growing.

    As far as building Unis, that was a problem although I don't think I assigned one scientist. I guess I was focusing on growth and didn't want to use up 2 foods for the specialist.
     
  15. Robert Smith

    Robert Smith Prince

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    Level: Emperor playing as Nebuchadnezzar

    EDIT: I give up this one due to slow growth rates in secondari cities. I will also only build 2 academies in next attempt. My record from a Liberty opening is 254 and i really want a pre 230 :)


    In turn 97 I finished NC, Education and signed 2 RA.
    :c5science: 65 (1 academy)
    Cities: 9, 5, 5 and 4

    Update (turn 124):
    :c5science: 178 (3 academies)
    Cities: 15 (2 :c5science: slot), 9, 6 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot)

    Update (turn 127):
    :c5science: 194
    Cities: 15 (2 :c5science: slot), 9 (2 :c5science: slot), 7 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot)

    Update (turn 132):
    :c5science: 210
    Cities: 16, 9, 7 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot in each city)

    Update (turn 134):
    :c5science: 244 adopted Secularism
    Cities: 16, 9, 7 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot in each city + 2 Workshop slots)

    Update (turn 143):
    :c5science: 256
    Cities: 18, 10, 7 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot in each city + 3 Workshop slots)

    Update (turn 146):
    :c5science: 268 ST (Academies = 10 :c5science:) +1 GS (to be used for late tech)
    Cities: 18, 10, 7 and 6 (2 :c5science: slot in each city + 3 Workshop slots)

    Update (turn 160):
    :c5science: 311+2 GS
    Cities: 19, 10, 7 and 7 (2 :c5science: slot in each city + PS in Capital, 3 Workshop slots)

    Update (turn 164):
    :c5science: 361+2 GS, adopted Free Thought
    Cities: 20, 10, 8 and 7 (2 :c5science: slot in each city + PS in Capital, 3 Workshop slots)

    1:st. war with Arabia (my neighbor how don't like me....) no problem to defense with 2 Bowman's.
    2:nd war with Arabia, more than enough with 3 Composite Bowman's

    Open patronage as my 7th policy in turn 99 and started to build Oracle after University.

    I will do some backfilling to get MC and then go for acoustics to time rationalism as my 8th policy (deepening on Oracle)

    Update (turn 116):
    With Oracle I was able to adopt rationalism.

    My plan is to finnish at least IW in Capital before I starts on my 5th city. How many cities to you end with?

    How many Academies do you build for Diplo and Science victory, 3 for both?

    To speed up DoF are you giving AI money (125 :c5gold: seems to be enough)

    Do you save Oxford to get one of the end tech.

    As long as I'm unhappy I focus on production esp. to get GL (Theology), HG, NC and University in Capital. I'm current happy so I have default as focus in rest of my cities. Do you micromanage or focus on food until you get university in all cities? After university i switch focus to science, but if only one science slot is taken I normally take one more (manuel), is this correct?

    Religion:
    Fertility Rites (10% growth), Is't better to take the 2 :c5science: even if I don't plan for more than 5-6 cities?
    Update:
    Swords into Plowshares (15% growth) (Turn 108)
    Tithe (+1 :c5gold: for every 4 followers)
    => gives you 50% growth in Capital and 40% in other cities with tradition.


    Pls give my some comments. My goal is to take a pre 230 Diplo victory. I need to improve my strategies before G&K HoF open ;)
     
  16. southpw11

    southpw11 Chieftain

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    Previously I had lots of trouble surviving on Immortal, but this is working well.

    Excellent strategy.
     
  17. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    I try to get some from cs or other AIs before settling another city ''only'' for this.

    I really don't know here. I get my first gs pretty late in my games. If you work the academy tile for at least 80 turns before reaching UN/parts, i guess it's ok.

    Absolutely. RAs are still very important.

    Yes.

    Cs are your friend for happiness and maximum growth. I micro some tiles but not often. I can rush buy a university in capital if needed. Manually put 2 scientists in every city.

    About religion : It's really map dependent/civs/neighbors etc. But i can tell that happiness and growth boosters are my favourites.
     
  18. BigChicagoBob

    BigChicagoBob Chieftain

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    I"m having trouble on Immortal with this strategy (part 1). I seem to be unable to gather the resources quick enough to gather $ to buy/upgrade archers. Inevitably, two AI seem to always declare war on me around turn 60 (this happens even when I do not steal a worker or buidl cities near them). Any advice?
     
  19. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    Try with 3 cities. Keep more gold to rush buy units.
     
  20. Robert Smith

    Robert Smith Prince

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    But only if AI attack you? IF I DoW to AI, the negative warmonger seems to be forever as a negative diplo.

    This is hard (I have build 3 but I'm not sure if it was the right decision):
    80 * 8 or 10 (with ST) * 1,83 => 1172 to 1463,
    If you save it for 80 turns you only need 1463/8 = 183 in average/turn the last 8 turn to get the same amount of :c5science:. Is my calc. totaly wrong?

    If you have time pls continue to read me previous post. I will update it to the end :)
     

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