Tragedy of the Events

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Enginseer, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper King

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    As someone who played with events on since i started playing VP and in general i kind of enjoy them i think i have a couple of points to make.
    • First and foremost i really don't know how big of a part did the devs intend for events to change the course of a game; is it supposed to be some sort of a topping on a cake or it's supposed to be the bread of big mac .... it's really confusing sometimes because one time you are playing Carthage for example and you get the ability to pass mountains which is huge or Korea where farms produce science or Spain getting a corvette in every single coastal city in addition to two copies of gold for the small price of 900 coins but other times you get some insignificant events as the Celts Oxford university getting flat science boost tho you have to pay 900 science to get it.
    • Randomness is fine IMO, repetitiveness is not as terrible as it's implied on most comments here but i would not say no to more events.
    • Some Bad events are a major setback, i'm not talking about the annoying flooded farms that breaks the building i wasted 10 turns to build but some are unbelievably game breaking in my experience .... playing as Poland for example got me an event that forced my entire empire to go on 3 turns of resistance (0 happiness meaning -20% CS and no production at all) during the modern era to give the military academies a minor bonus of some GA points or the early game research setback which costs me science equal to my entire empire output for like 5 - 10 turns.
    • Events related to founding a religion are a personal favorite but my biggest issue with them is they occur extremely late that they don't matter or simply don't occur at all in some games; the quest for hero worship or the reliquary are great but why don't they pop up until the very late modern era or sometimes not at all? i know some of these have requirements but at least make the quest start in the renaissance era for every single religion.
     
  2. Erikose

    Erikose Chieftain

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    I love the events - but, am a bit of a wimp for only loving the positive ones! Enjoyed reading InkAxis' remarks, and would definitely be interested in more options for the neutral/negative events. I always enjoy the quest/natural wonder events, as usually the choices seem perfect for the stage of game I am in and rarely (if ever) found them imbalanced.

    At the risk of being off-topic, Engineseer, more than anything else, I miss a fully functioning CPB Events and Decisions Compatibility mod. AI seemed to use it as well as I did (most of the time), and some shook things up in very interesting ways! (Getting a ton of gold - only to have much of it stolen by spies in the next few turns or doubling your military through conscription when ganged up on come to mind - as do the awesome civ-specific ones). Together with the other events, it made my individual playthroughs nicely varied, and never boring.

    Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this great - IMHO essential - system.

    - E
     
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  3. Gizmoman

    Gizmoman Warlord

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    These are all pretty much Community events specific and not base VP. That being said yeah I agree, the civ specific and founder specific events are really fun.
     
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  4. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    JFYI, if you realize mid-game that you accidentally forgot to turn the events off, you can delete the Events folder from the Modules folder in one of the folders inside CBP (on my cell, cannot remember the exact path, but it is easy to find).
     
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  5. Chinag

    Chinag Chieftain

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    I don't know how FEASIBLE this idea is, but I would love if it was plausible to NOT IMMEDIATELY decide a decision for an event.

    What especially sucks about bad events, is that they're immediate and hard to know if you're eglible for them or not.
    It also sucks that you're not able to pick the better option because you were caught empty-handed when the event decided to strike.


    What if instead of having to immediately choose an option, it instead gets sent to a "stack" (in a new menu most likely) and you will be able to handle it in a future turn.

    Take for example the "Beast in the city" event. One of the better options require a garrisoned unit in the city, but you just sent the unit to deal with some barbarians!
    No worries. If the event is in the "stack" for, say 3 turns. That gives you some leeway to get an unit to the city and be able to pick the better option.

    Giving all decision event extra time so you can facilitate the better option could be too strong. Not all events deserves to be delayable or should just have a one turn delay so you have to choose it this turn anyway.

    Of courses, there should be penalties for delaying your decision.

    Examples of penalties could be a negative effects for keeping a decision in the "stack". Can either be a constant one (25% more distress while this event is undecided) or a stacking effect (-2 gold each turn while this event is undecided).
    There should also be penalties for letting a decision for a bad event expire.
    The sum of the negative effect for ignoring an event should, IMO, be stronger than just choosing the bad option on the first turn you get it.

    Another type of penalty can be locking decisions if you don't choose it on the first few turns. I.e. ignoring Call to Arms for some turns disables the option for the 25% attack bonus.
    Another example could be that ignoring Nomadic Incursion would cause a stacking % chance to ignore whatever option you choose and just pick the barbarians instead.

    You could even boost the effects of certain options when you let a decision rest in the stack. I.e. ignoring Call to Arms causes the production option to give more hammers to each city, but there's a chance for revolt in a city each turn it's in the "stack".


    Another feature of the "stack" is that you can put precursors of incoming bad event in it. For examples imminent floods can be warned 1 or 2 turns before it strikes, giving you some time to shore up some production.
    Hell, as you progress through the tech tree warning events can happen earlier, so in the modern era you can get a flood warning 4-5 turns before it strikes. Perhaps the warning events adds a new project to the city like "Emergency preparations" so you can convert some production to damage mitigation.


    That's just a silly idea from my head. I don't think it's feasible, but I'm not a modder.

    A more realistic change I would like to see is a event notification on the side of something that can happen next turn. Like "The water around Paris seems to behave erratic lately..." for flooding.
     
  6. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

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    Similar to OP I think this event system is maybe imperfect, but a tough area to theory craft a clear improvement.. I lean towards 'good enough' on these.

    My concern, if I had to have one, on this feature is that it's too disjointed, that the events don't feel like they tell any kind of narrative or anything about your civ, there's no depth to them, the outcome of the choices is always the same.

    Somewhat off topic, i really enjoy the community events mod but everytime I use it I reach a turn that can't be ended and game over.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  7. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    LOL @ you for thinking that every suggestion is automatically a complaint. Anyway Recursive already explained the checkboxes, so it's fine as it is.
     
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  8. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

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    I really did lol in amusement but i edited this out as unproductive commentary before your reply; wasn't my intention to offend or detract from conversation. Anyway my bad :)

    It would be nice to have everything super-organized, but as a former dev in a previous life, these kind of feature requests/bug reports only make one smile
     
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  9. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Prince

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    In one of the beta threads I already suggested that events should be off by default. That's all I have to say about events.
     
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  10. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    Yeah, I get you. Ideally, those little features would be in a Jira backlog, but that would require someone to update it and keep it organized, which is beyond the scope of this mod. I guess you are right, that there is little point to suggest such small changes, because it would be very easily forgotten. It would be much more productive to implement it and create a pull request.
     
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  11. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

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    i recently recommended that a friend play VP, but knowing his tastes told him to keep these off... leaving it off by default probably parallels real world behavior of many players

    The concept of adding a new feature that is defaulted to 'off' seems to suggest something's gone wrong with the project though.. in this alternative it may be better to leave the framework in-place in VP's files and move all the events to modmod, or as an optional (7c) component or something

    edit: trying to brainstorm some quick improvements, could the events be governed by some tracking counter that ensure a net neutral result over x turns?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  12. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    I pretty much agree with everything @Stalker0 said, I think that was a really good summary.

    I value the Community Events mod a lot. I think if we are able to edit which events occur and how common they are we could really make them shine. I don't know what's really possible at the moment with regards to that though, which is why I don't talk about them a lot? These are the areas that I enjoy most about using events (with the community events mod).

    1) Civ-specific events
    Balance isn't perfect, but having unique events with specific triggers for each civ is something I love. Particularly when they give you things that you can't get any other way, or rewards you for things that otherwise aren't super meaningful. Civ-specific events are a big part of what has encouraged me to try new civs, and doing things that are unfamiliar is very significant for me.

    2) Natural-wonder events
    Makes natural wonders really worth fighting over, and games with natural wonders stand out as special! I adore in particular the events for Mt Kilimanjaro, Sri Pada, Mt Kailash, and Lake Victoria :). At their best they tell a story over time that ties in with things like your progress in technology and society. E.g. Cerro de Potosi allows you to extract different minerals as you learn new/different types of mining and smelting! There are a couple of things I would like to see changed - e.g. updating the Uluru events to reflect that we (Australia) don't allow people to climb it anymore, in accordance with the wishes of it's traditional owners!

    3) Religious events
    These don't happen super often but I've always liked that there are events that give a bit more flavour to founding different types of religions. It makes your decisions feel more meaningful in a narrative sense!

    4) Multi-choice random events
    I enjoy events like the comet appearing in the sky and finding something in a mineshaft which repeat but give different options depending on your circumstances (and level of development). I agree there's a need to look at balance for these because early events (particularly those related to faith) can be very significant. Still, I prefer the multi-choice options like 'mysterious stranger' or 'death of a merchant' more than things which only have a yes/no option because there's room for both strategic decision-making and role-playing :).
     
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  13. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    I don't know how feasible this is, but even with all the (many) sins of Civ 5: Beyond Earth, it's events/quest system was terrific.
     
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  14. InkAxis

    InkAxis King

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    I haven't played BE, can you describe what you like about the event system?
     
  15. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Quests_(CivBE)

    That gives an overview; elevator pitch would be multistage quests triggered by certain actions or other triggers in game, leading to a variety of bonuses. One advantage is there really aren't any maluses/bad random events.
     
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  16. InkAxis

    InkAxis King

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    So basically looking at it I like it. Kinda what like I suggested, but then there are triggers for the event to start. I think it could work. But, the main challenge is for people on the dev team to work on it.

    So, I think we can see that there are a lot of options but it depends on the willingness of the devs.
     
  17. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    more civ-specific, policy-specific, and ideology-specific quests would add a lot more to the events system. That would guarantee that you would haveat least 2-3 unique events every time you played a game, and keep the system feeling a little more fresh than it does now. There are some events that already require certain techs or policies in order, but they require them in their options, rather than require them to fire in the first place, which can make these events feel like sour grapes (ie. the windmill upgrade event that usually fires too soon for you to have selected the required Industry policy, even if you were going Industry as a policy choice)

    Just generally, more events with more specific requirements, with smaller windows of firing/obsoleting, and that fire less often. That's a ton of work, but it would make the events system fresh and interesting for multiple playthroughs.
     
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  18. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Yeah honestly the low amount of events is the big reason I soured on it. In EU4 there are so many events that totally blow my mind and are really cool. Even the bad ones can be cool, and seeing burgundy explode or my Swedish Nobles change my capital to Paris gives so fresh air to the game.

    Meanwhile in VP it seems like the same old thing every time. If we decided to add several hundred events it would be worth it, but that seems like the last step in the mod's development.
     
  19. Gizmoman

    Gizmoman Warlord

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    The BE even system was downright amazing. I mean it wasn't at all an event system, but how you customized your buildings and units every game was definitely one of the best aspects of the game.
     
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  20. PortugeseChicken

    PortugeseChicken Chieftain

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    I just don't enjoy early game bad events. Losing improvements, food, culture, gold, or any yield isn't fun in the early stage when you're just setting up. I really don't mind bad events at the mid to late stage of the game. Maybe something that could be done would be to move some of the worse ones away from the early stage of the game.

    I do think that events should be in the game, but I always turn them off hahahaa. That's why I've never played Arabia lately either.
     

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