Tragedy with 6-year old shooting their teacher

[Kyriakos]

6-year-old in custody after shooting teacher in Virginia, police chief says | CNN

A 6-year-old boy is in police custody after he shot a teacher at Richneck Elementary School in Newport News, Virginia, Friday afternoon, Police Chief Steve Drew said in a news conference.

edition.cnn.com

First some quotes from the article:

A 6-year-old boy was taken into police custody after he shot a teacher at Richneck Elementary School in Newport News, Virginia, Friday afternoon, Police Chief Steve Drew said in a news conference.


“The individual is a 6-year-old student,” Drew said. “We have been in contact with our commonwealth attorney and some other entities to help us best get services to this young man.”

Drew said the female teacher was shot inside a classroom and added that “this was not an accidental shooting.”


The police chief said there was an altercation between the teacher and the student, who had the firearm, and that a single round was fired. No other students were involved, he added.


Authorities and the Newport News public school district did not identify the teacher or the student involved in the shooting.

The child is too young to be put on trial, but clearly social services will be involved and other articles mention the possibility of the parents losing custody.
What is impressive in this case, of course, is the age of the kid. Can't really expect so young a person to view guns as a murder weapon - any notion they'd have of death would be relatively simple and not comparable to that of most even in their teens.
What do you think should happen to the kid? The only fortunate thing is that the teacher is not in risk of dying:

In a Saturday statement, the Newport News Police Department said the teacher had improved and was listed in stable condition, adding the chief had met with her and her family.


“Chief Drew asked that you continue to keep her in your thoughts and prayers,” police said. A day earlier, the chief had described the teacher’s injuries as life-threatening.


An investigation is ongoing, police said.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Its what should happen to the irresponsible adults who caused this that matters.

 

[Kyriakos]

Its what should happen to the irresponsible adults who caused this that matters.

Certainly. Although it'd have been far worse (for the kid) if the teacher had died.

 

[E.man]

Its what should happen to the irresponsible adults who caused this that matters.

Yeah. Kid didn't get himself a gun from nowhere and learn how to shoot it by himself.

Now it's gone from kids getting shot in school to *little kids* shooting teachers !

It's fudging mental.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Can't really expect so young a person to view guns as a murder weapon

With all the gun-related killing kids see on TV and in movies, even at that age, it would surprise me if a 6-year-old did not know that they are a murder weapon.

The problem is whether or not the kid understands that death is permanent, and not like a Bugs Bunny cartoon where you can shoot someone point-blank and all they get is a sooty face with an annoyed expression.

 

[Kyriakos]

Or even if for the child, a death is that big of a deal; at 6 they are unlikely to have much of an impression of/appreciation for the time the average human stays alive for.
All reasons why kids made for brutal executioners (eg in African civil wars): they don't treat death in the same way as others.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Or even if for the child, a death is that big of a deal; at 6 they are unlikely to have much of an impression of/appreciation for the time the average human stays alive for.
All reasons why kids made for brutal executioners (eg in African civil wars): they don't treat death in the same way as others.

I think they understand it's a big deal. It's just not from the same perspective. For many of them it's literally "kill or be killed" and the only way some cope is to become completely desensitized.

One of my former neighbors, several apartments ago, was a child soldier in one of those African countries. I met him when he knocked on my door one day to ask for help with an assignment he was doing for a course he was taking for college. I agreed to help him and went over to his place, and while we were trying to figure out his word processing problem, he told me some of his life story.

He was one of the lucky ones. He made it to a refugee camp and eventually to Canada. At the time he was my neighbor, he was working at a local bakery, studying nursing part-time, and his long-term goal was to reunite with his family.

 

[Absolution]

Time and time again, Americans prefer to engage in sky-level moral conflicts, instead of calling to place guards in the entrance to public places.

I know that you guys don't like the ethic of gun availability, but changing it will be so difficult and dividing. By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

In Israel nothing like this can happen anymore, because bags are checked at the entrance.

 

[Gorbles]

By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

Ignoring somebody citing Israel when criticising "sky-high moral conflicts", and ignoring the existing data on adding more guns to any given situation, there's nothing simple about placing guards. What may work for one country won't work at scale (which is a massive difference between Israel and the US).

Israel also has a history of US support, often in excess of what the US spends on (parts of) itself. There's economics to consider.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Time and time again, Americans prefer to engage in sky-level moral conflicts, instead of calling to place guards in the entrance to public places.

I know that you guys don't like the ethic of gun availability, but changing it will be so difficult and dividing. By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

In Israel nothing like this can happen anymore, because bags are checked at the entrance.

Israel has 9 million people and is ~20,000 sq Km.
The US has 330 million people and has almost 10 million sq Km plus 400 million guns

Tiny nations can do many things much more easily than larger ones.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Time and time again, Americans prefer to engage in sky-level moral conflicts, instead of calling to place guards in the entrance to public places.

I know that you guys don't like the ethic of gun availability, but changing it will be so difficult and dividing. By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

In Israel nothing like this can happen anymore, because bags are checked at the entrance.

Elementary schools are not public places, or at least they aren't as accessible to the public as they were. If memory serves, this became more prevalent in both the U.S. and Canada after mass school shootings in both countries.

And how do you define "public place," anyway, or check anything at the "entrance" when there could be a dozen or more ways in?

 

[AmazonQueen]

Israel has 9 million people and is ~20,000 sq Km.
The US has 330 million people and has almost 10 million sq Km plus 400 million guns

Tiny nations can do many things much more easily than larger ones.

It also has only something like 7 guns per 100 people compared to 120 per 100 people in the US.

 

[Fippy]

And you are prolly still generous with that estimation (120 per 100)..

 

[Kyriakos]

Ignoring somebody citing Israel when criticising "sky-high moral conflicts", and ignoring the existing data on adding more guns to any given situation, there's nothing simple about placing guards. What may work for one country won't work at scale (which is a massive difference between Israel and the US).

Israel also has a history of US support, often in excess of what the US spends on (parts of) itself. There's economics to consider.

US has machines running checks for guns at airports like everyone else, though. While it'd be better if guns could become more scarce, this could be practical in the meantime.
Besides, one would suppose those humans who would do checks would already be paid to do other work in the school (now they get extra income). Will create another queue, but a few humans + machine per school likely is workable.

 

[AmazonQueen]

US has machines running checks for guns at airports like everyone else, though. While it'd be better if guns could become more scarce, this could be practical in the meantime.
Besides, one would suppose those humans who would do checks would already be paid to do other work in the school (now they get extra income). Will create another queue, but a few humans + machine per school likely is workable.

Schools in the US have been increasing the use of metal detectors, armed security officers etc for years with no measurable effect. Theres no solution that doesn't involve US society as a whole.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The only stat on Israeli schools I could find has a list of 30 schools.
Greece has just over 7,000
The US has over 115,000

I wonder how many entry doors those 115,000 schools have?

There are about 5000 public airports in the US and 3000 of significance; less than 100 major ones. For small countries adding a few people plus machines might be possible; for large countries it is not feasible and a set up for failure. Guns and gun deaths will be a US problem as long as gun ownership is seen as a protect right and encouraged.

 

[Kyriakos]

Then again when you have more schools, you tend to also have a larger workforce, which means you more than likely again have the same ratio of people who can work in such jobs.

Schools in the US have been increasing the use of metal detectors, armed security officers etc for years with no measurable effect. Theres no solution that doesn't involve US society as a whole.

It wouldn't be a solution, but it might at least prevent a percentage of those violent crimes, it's what @Absolution seems to have suggested.

 

[danjuno]

Time and time again, Americans prefer to engage in sky-level moral conflicts, instead of calling to place guards in the entrance to public places.

I know that you guys don't like the ethic of gun availability, but changing it will be so difficult and dividing. By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

In Israel nothing like this can happen anymore, because bags are checked at the entrance.

We already do that. The School Resource Officer (SRO) at Parkland bounced at the first sign of trouble.

 

[NovaKart]

Time and time again, Americans prefer to engage in sky-level moral conflicts, instead of calling to place guards in the entrance to public places.

I know that you guys don't like the ethic of gun availability, but changing it will be so difficult and dividing. By the time you manage to do it (if you do), you could have prevented dozens of other shooting incidents by simply placing guards.

In Israel nothing like this can happen anymore, because bags are checked at the entrance.

Iraq has very high levels of gun ownership at homes and they don’t search people who enter primary schools. They do in Israel? There’s security guards but they don’t usually do anything but ask why you’re there and in what country would they search the primary school children themselves?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Elementary schools are not public places, or at least they aren't as accessible to the public as they were.

Of course it varies from school to school, but speaking of my kid's school, there has been access changes the last few years. Mostly during school hours. Can't walk your kid to the classroom anymore, which was very common thing to do on first day of school for elementary, you can only drop them off outside and they have to go in themselves. During school hours everything locked up, can't get in unless the secretary buzzes you in (or someone leaves a door unlocked like apparently happened in a school shooting not long ago). For a few hours after school's out, everything's open, can come in and out as much as I want (if I was inclined to do so), until janitors lock everything up.

I wonder how many entry doors those 115,000 schools have?

Entry doors are typically limited in number (compared to fire exits). Once class starts, only one, maybe 2 entry doors allowed and need to be buzzed in.

But yes, I agree with another poster, because we are a bigger country (with then obviously more schools because of that) isn't in itself a valid reason to say it won't work. Whether the public would allow "TSA level security in our elementary schools" is a much more valid reason it may not work.