Tragedy with 6-year old shooting their teacher

[NovaKart]

I think most of the USA security at least in primary schools is so someone -usually a parent without custody- doesn’t snatch the kid.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Entry doors are typically limited in number (compared to fire exits). Once class starts, only one, maybe 2 entry doors allowed and need to be buzzed in.

But yes, I agree with another poster, because we are a bigger country (with then obviously more schools because of that) isn't in itself a valid reason to say it won't work. Whether the public would allow "TSA level security in our elementary schools" is a much more valid reason it may not work.

Many schools (public and private) now have multiple, single story buildings rather than the traditional, big, multi-story building model. How many of the school shootings in the last decade or so had security personnel on the grounds? idk. Are there situations where security personnel have stopped a shooting? The problem is access to guns and not students in school.

Making gun owners legally responsible for how their guns are used seems a simpler and better solution. If an owner's gun is used in a murder or other crime, then the owner can be charged as an accessory for that crime along with the perpetrator. Mandatory jail time.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I think most of the USA security at least in primary schools is so someone -usually a parent without custody- doesn’t snatch the kid.

That is an added benefit/reason, but in the case of my kid's school, the 'lock down' during school hours /buzzer system wasn't installed until after Sandy Hook. Dont think was coincidence. Covid added the 'no parents in the building before school' rule (still in effect, but that rule in regards to after school relaxed, along with mask rules).

 

[Absolution]

Israel has 9 million people and is ~20,000 sq Km.
The US has 330 million people and has almost 10 million sq Km plus 400 million guns

Tiny nations can do many things much more easily than larger ones.

But do we know that these differences meam that it will not work in the US?
Was it every tried on some scale or fields? Was it maybe researched or experimented?

Elementary schools are not public places, or at least they aren't as accessible to the public as they were. If memory serves, this became more prevalent in both the U.S. and Canada after mass school shootings in both countries.

And how do you define "public place," anyway, or check anything at the "entrance" when there could be a dozen or more ways in?

You start with defining it as any kind of place where shootings are common, I guess. If preventing mass shooting is our goal.
Schools, malls, cinemas, theatres, congress halls, medical centres, etc.
And you add or remove more with time, once you know better.

Iraq has very high levels of gun ownership at homes and they don’t search people who enter primary schools. They do in Israel? There’s security guards but they don’t usually do anything but ask why you’re there and in what country would they search the primary school children themselves?

These days they no longer do anything, because it's been years now that we don't even hear of attempts to use weapons in public places. I guess simply having guards makes a difference with time, without them even acting.
On the slightest sign of increased need, they will raise their awareness levels, back to middle 00s levels, why not.
These days our problem is street attacks. But these are less deadly and less common than the horror attacks of the early 00s and before.

 

[Absolution]

Many schools (public and private) now have multiple, single story buildings rather than the traditional, big, multi-story building model. How many of the school shootings in the last decade or so had security personnel on the grounds? idk. Are there situations where security personnel have stopped a shooting? The problem is access to guns and not students in school.

Making gun owners legally responsible for how their guns are used seems a simpler and better solution. If an owner's gun is used in a murder or other crime, then the owner can be charged as an accessory for that crime along with the perpetrator. Mandatory jail time.

I am shocked that this is not the case yet.
You should be fined heavily for even losing a gun, regardless of the consequences...

 

[Birdjaguar]

But do we know that these differences meam that it will not work in the US?
Was it every tried on some scale or fields? Was it maybe researched or experimented?

It is very unlikely work. A large percentage of USians feel that the best security is for more people to own and carry guns freely. Give teachers guns so they can shoot back! The new Congressional House leadership has removed the metal detectors from the doors of the House chambers and will allow guns to be brought into their place of work. Many gun owners want total freedom to carry their guns whenever and wherever they want. Whenever states have passed laws regarding guns, the gun lobby takes them to court and they usually win.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I am shocked that this is not the case yet.
You should be fined heavily for even losing a gun, regardless of the consequences...

There is no significant registration requirement for gun ownership. Nobody really knows who owns what guns. Some states are now trying to pass laws requiring insurance if you own guns. Such laws will be tested and likely found unconstitutional.

 

[Absolution]

It is very unlikely work. A large percentage of USians feel that the best security is for more people to own and carry guns freely. Give teachers guns so they can shoot back! The new Congressional House leadership has removed the metal detectors from the doors of the House chambers and will allow guns to be brought into their place of work. Many gun owners want total freedom to carry their guns whenever and wherever they want. Whenever states have passed laws regarding guns, the gun lobby takes them to court and they usually win.

So basically you're saying that gun lobbies will object the ban on entering schools with weapons?
Good luck for this country

 

[Birdjaguar]

We love our guns! We love to show them off in public. Bigger guns with more bullets are always better! It's nobody's business that I might own 50 guns and have 100,000 rounds of ammo. USA #1

 

[Absolution]

We love our guns! We love to show them off in public. Bigger guns with more bullets are always better! It's nobody's business that I might own 50 guns and have 100,000 rounds of ammo. USA #1

 

[Joij21]

The United States is the sick man of the Developed World.

 

[Zardnaar]

The United States is the sick man of the Developed World.

Think we had a school shooting 1932.

 

[Remorseless1]

There were metal detectors in use at the school as well as a guard or two. The insanity that we in the US have to have these to protect against OUR OWN CITIZENS. Israel does it because of outside groups like Hamas. Crazy as f***

 

[Absolution]

There were metal detectors in use at the school as well as a guard or two. The insanity that we in the US have to have these to protect against OUR OWN CITIZENS. Israel does it because of outside groups like Hamas. Crazy as f***

Having your citizens massacred is more crazy than setting up security measures.

I fear that people who oppose gun availability see these ideas as giving up their struggle.
But well I guess that a quick protection of kids in schools and people in other public places should be more important.

 

[Farm Boy]

We do guard schools. There was a game on YouTube a while back, "school or prison" where kids tried to identify which from outside pictures. Country is big and diverse and not everywhere has guards, but the premise is faulty.

In one of our big nasty school shootings a couple years ago, armed security on site didn't engage because he didn't want to die. Understandable, if unfortunate, on that limited point.

 

[Kyriakos]

In one of our big nasty school shootings a couple years ago, armed security on site didn't engage because he didn't want to die. Understandable, if unfortunate, on that limited point.

Imo this is indeed understandable (for a school security guard), but not when done by the actual police...

 

[Farm Boy]

What, it's not like we had an entire department of big brave law-enforcin' Texans refuse to respond to an active shooter in a classroom or something.

Oh shi-

 

[9gkj548hkm20vk79dj689bnj4]

I have no idea of how this gun was obtained, but I'm guessing the owner probably kept it in the old bedroom drawer or some such place, and the child saw it.
more information needed.

as to the larger issue as to how to "prevent" this, I think it would be enormously easier to make schools a place where one would not want to bring guns or any contraband into it in the first place, rather than trying to eliminate them from society in general. But I don't exactly have an outline on how to do that, besides students and faculty having a bit more pride in their place of learning...

 

[Joij21]

Think we had a school shooting 1932.

Back in my day there were no 1st graders blasting their teachers brains out! Teenagers and adults are what I expect because they tend to be more messed up (hormones), but not children!

Though I suppose there are child soldiers in Africa manipulated to kill. Wonder if the child's parents gave them some classic "warlord" training because the teacher was teaching LGBTQ or something.

 

[Kyriakos]

Back in my day there were no 1st graders blasting their teachers brains out! Teenagers and adults are what I expect because they tend to be more messed up (hormones), but not children!

Though I suppose there are child soldiers in Africa manipulated to kill. Wonder if the child's parents gave them some classic "warlord" training because the teacher was teaching LGBTQ or something.

Probably the kid had issues with the teacher - not exactly rare, let alone in so young an age.
Since guns aren't likely to become considerably more difficult to get hold of in the US, maybe in the meantime tougher security could at least avert a number of the cases.