Tragedy with 6-year old shooting their teacher

[Bamspeedy]

I will say this about the gun control issue. While I support a ban on assault rifles, pragmatically I know it will never happen and not because of the NRA or stubborn Republicans but rather the mechanics of enforcing it. More precisely enforcing it when the population is already armed, how does the long-arm of the law seize those now illegal firearms from the uncomplying (who bought it when it was still legal)?

Laws could prevent the sale of any new assault rifles. Less incentives for manufactures to produce them if there are fewer buyers (or outright ban on manufacturers being able to produce them would take care of a most of the new guns....illegally imported guns I suspect are miniscule compared to guns produced inside our country).

Between no new guns being introduced, buy back programs, guns used in crimes being confiscated and destroyed, etc. there will be fewer and fewer of them out there. No one is suggesting door-door raids to confiscate the guns.

 

[E.man]

Laws could prevent the sale of any new assault rifles. Less incentives for manufactures to produce them if there are fewer buyers (or outright ban on manufacturers being able to produce them would take care of a most of the new guns....illegally imported guns I suspect are miniscule compared to guns produced inside our country).

Between no new guns being introduced, buy back programs, guns used in crimes being confiscated and destroyed, etc. there will be fewer and fewer of them out there. No one is suggesting door-door raids to confiscate the guns.

A simple 'like ' doesn't seem enough for this. At least it's doing *something *.

 

[aelf]

Uhh, don't you mean Second Amendment?

Shooting is a way for people to express themselves.

 

[Joij21]

Between no new guns being introduced, buy back programs, guns used in crimes being confiscated and destroyed, etc. there will be fewer and fewer of them out there. No one is suggesting door-door raids to confiscate the guns.

Assault rifles are durable goods. Meaning if properly maintained (and trust me gun enthusiasts usually do) they can essentially last forever. Some even make their own parts with laths and other forms of metal shop work. Metallic 3D printers will be more commonplace as well. Regular base metals can be ordered online, through specialty stores, or hardware stores.

Buy back programs will only take back a certain amount of the guns, and the crime route requires said gun owners to actually commit crime. So that could only work if you intentionally engineered a depression/recession in order to force people to sell their guns/commit crime just to eat bread.

Ammunition is the only thing you could control, as making smokeless powder yourself is doable (and it is done by Ted Kozinsky type survivalists who hate the government in their dingy chemical labs like something out of Breaking Bad) however it's dangerous for all but the most experienced due to explosive risk. Ammo is the primary recurring expense to owning a gun, because many like to enjoy their guns by actually shooting them on a range. Meaning ammo is wasted and used up. Now gun owners always buy more but if one were to restrict the price or make certain kinds of ammo illegal they would have no choice but either use what they have left or start conserving (in which case they may get rusty from not practicing on the range). Or! They could create an illegal explosives making shack in the middle of the woods and most likely blow themselves up!

 

[Bamspeedy]

Assault rifles are durable goods. Meaning if properly maintained (and trust me gun enthusiasts usually do) they can essentially last forever. Some even make their own parts with laths and other forms of metal shop work. Metallic 3D printers will be more commonplace as well. Regular base metals can be ordered online, through specialty stores, or hardware stores.

Buy back programs will only take back a certain amount of the guns, and the crime route requires said gun owners to actually commit crime. So that could only work if you intentionally engineered a depression/recession in order to force people to sell their guns/commit crime just to eat bread.

Ammunition is the only thing you could control, as making smokeless powder yourself is doable (and it is done by Ted Kozinsky type survivalists who hate the government in their dingy chemical labs like something out of Breaking Bad) however it's dangerous for all but the most experienced due to explosive risk. Ammo is the primary recurring expense to owning a gun, because many like to enjoy their guns by actually shooting them on a range. Meaning ammo is wasted and used up. Now gun owners always buy more but if one were to restrict the price or make certain kinds of ammo illegal they would have no choice but either use what they have left or start conserving (in which case they may get rusty from not practicing on the range). Or! They could create an illegal explosives making shack in the middle of the woods and most likely blow themselves up!

So because we can't eliminate 100% of the assault rifles out there, we should produce more instead?

Sure, you can still have a history buff who can make a musket work, but muskets aren't really an issue for gun control. Deaths from antique guns are not unheard of (I have a cousin commit suicide with an antique pistol) but overall they are a rare event. Being able to buy new guns still being mass produced today makes sure we will always have non-antiques readily and easily available for death and mayhem.

 

[Joij21]

Sure, you can still have a history buff who can make a musket work, but muskets aren't really an issue for gun control. Deaths from antique guns are not unheard of (I have a cousin commit suicide with an antique pistol) but overall they are a rare event. Being able to buy new guns still being mass produced today makes sure we will always have non-antiques readily and easily available for death and mayhem.

I'm not talking about antiques! There are literal guys out there who know how to make actual assault rifle parts! With metal shop equipment, 3D metal printers, and blueprints stolen off of the dark web.

Hillbillies know how to read blueprints! They aren't that stupid!

The other reason why ammo should be the restricted asset is because it's easier to circumvent the Second Amendment that way. The Second Amendment only talks about "arms" as in the gun itself but not the ammo. If ammo can be classified as not an arm then you can pass legislation now at the state level without having to contend with federal law/amend the federal constitution (which would require a supermajority that would have to include uncooperative republicans who will vote against any changes).

 

[Bamspeedy]

And people can't make their own ammo like they can make their own guns? School shooters aren't making their own guns. I doubt many of the 'gun nuts' would support a ban on ammo.

The point was antiques are rarely used because of the availability of them (being obsolete is also another obvious reason). Assault rifles, if harder to get (because they would no longer be produced in mass quantities), would be used less and less often as time goes by. Really, though, handguns are responsible for far, far more deaths than assault rifles. But, handguns have more legitimate uses than assault rifles.

 

[Joij21]

And people can't make their own ammo like they can make their own guns? School shooters aren't making their own guns. I doubt many of the 'gun nuts' would support a ban on ammo.

The point was antiques are rarely used because of the availability of them (being obsolete is also another obvious reason). Assault rifles, if harder to get (because they would no longer be produced in mass quantities), would be used less and less often as time goes by. Really, though, handguns are responsible for far, far more deaths than assault rifles. But, handguns have more legitimate uses than assault rifles.

I'm talking about assault rifles not antiques! There are people who know how to make assault rifles without buying them from a store!

Ammo can be made however it's much harder due to the fact one also has to make the explosive propellant. You can easily blow yourself up therefore most prefer to actually purchase that from the store even if they know how to make their own assault rifles. Thus it can more easily be controlled.

And yes gun nuts would oppose a ban on ammo (they'd also oppose a tax on on it). However it's more doable because they'll never hand in their actual guns through buybacks, because America is not like the rest of the Anglosphere! It's culturally enshrined in the Constitution to be pro gun to the point of non compliance! Nowhere else in the Anglosphere was that a thing, therefore people in those nations were more compliant because of the lack of such a preexisting culture.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Obviously you are not grasping my antique analogy (the growing rarity of something if it stops being produced and readily available to the masses). How many guns you think will be illegally manufactured each year by gun nuts. A few hundred a year? Compared to the millions produced each year by large gun manufacturers.

Guns, ammo, no reason you can't try to ban/tax to oblivion both (separate bills/laws, so if one fails/overturned, can still try the other).

 

[Samson]

handguns have more legitimate uses than assault rifles

What uses?

 

[Kyriakos]

What uses?

I guess defense is meant? At least in some parts of the US where police is too little to deal with the level of violence (assuming they would, too many cases where they refuse to help and just outright murder people themselves).
In the vast countryside, it might make sense - similar to being in a cabin in the woods, I suppose.

Another issue may be that in the US (afaik) the norm is to live in a house, instead of a flat inside a larger building. Clearly safety is reduced, since you have no immediate neighbors and break-ins may seem more promising. Then again, afaik, the situation is similar in England (suburbs), but probably the distribution is different (still more flat use per person).

 

[Samson]

I guess defense is meant? At least in some parts of the US where police is too little to deal with the level of violence.
In the vast countryside, it might make sense - similar to being in a cabin in the woods, I suppose.

It seems to me that an AR-15 can do all the jobs a pistol can do, except be hidden. I was wondering what legitimate jobs a pistol could do that an AR-16 could not?

 

[Kyriakos]

It seems to me that an AR-15 can do all the jobs a pistol can do, except be hidden. I was wondering what legitimate jobs a pistol could do that an AR-16 could not?

If you have an AR-15, you can cos-play as a metropolitan police thug? ^^

 

[Birdjaguar]

What uses?

All guns are designed to shoot and or kill people and other things. Yes they can be used to threaten or intimidate, but that threat is all about shooting and killing. Assault rifles and hand guns mostly differ in the scale of the threat.

 

[Broken_Erika]

An AR-15 uses similar rounds to your standard varmint rifle(5.56mm/.223), so i'd guess it's only useful for varmint hunting and target shooting. If you want to hunt deer, you'd need an AR-10, which is like an ar-15 but uses 7.62mm bullets. Of course if you need 30 rounds to hit one deer, than chances are you are a very crappy hunter and should find a new hobby.

 

[Kyriakos]

All guns are designed to shoot and or kill people and other things. Yes they can be used to threaten or intimidate, but that threat is all about shooting and killing. Assault rifles and hand guns mostly differ in the scale of the thread.

So that's why the general gun control thread has so many more posts than this one!!!

 

[Joij21]

Guns, ammo, no reason you can't try to ban/tax to oblivion both (separate bills/laws, so if one fails/overturned, can still try the other).

Can't ban the guns because of the 2nd Amendment specifically mentioning arms. Guns are arms, where as ammunition is not.

Look overturning an amendment is hard, the founding fathers engineered our constitution to be specifically like that, hard to change. You need 3/4 supermajority of the entire legislature. Only possible if the Republican party splits, and thus mostly Democrats get elected, or you compromise with said Republicans.

 

[Samson]

Can't ban the guns because of the 2nd Amendment specifically mentioning arms. Guns are arms, where as ammunition is not.

Look overturning an amendment is hard, the founding fathers engineered our constitution to be specifically like that, hard to change. You need 3/4 supermajority of the entire legislature. Only possible if the Republican party splits, and thus mostly Democrats get elected, or you compromise with said Republicans.

Seems to me one should be able to get elected by campaigning on keeping appointing justices to the supreme court until they rule that the right to bear arms requires a well regulated militia.

 

[Joij21]

Seems to me one should be able to get elected by campaigning on keeping appointing justices to the supreme court until they rule that the right to bear arms requires a well regulated militia.

Packing the courts!!!?? Unlikely, as FDR tried to do the same thing much to the chagrin of the legislature back then. Not long after he died they created the two term limit rule for all future presidents.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Most hunters now use semi-auto rifles, one of the most popular rifles for hunting among Canadian indigenous is the SKS rifle. Liberals wanted to ban it 'cause it was used to gun down police on a couple of occasions.
The SKS became popular because it was ridiculously cheap and exceptionally reliable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS