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Travel Discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Wild West Mod' started by TC01, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. TC01

    TC01 Deity

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    A continuation of a discussion we were/are having in the SDK Changes thread, this is a discussion about how one possible feature, allowing a unit to "wait for a train", allowing a train to "pick up passengers", and allowing trains to move units, should work, or if it should be abandoned. It is also generally about transport and travel of units, however for now I want to focus on the trains.

    Here are some relevant posts by Kailric and I.

    Here are some questions you might want to consider when discussing this:

    1. Do you typically build colonies close together or far apart? I.e., would the train commands be useful? (The discussion on those commands begin in this post and ones below it in the main mod topic.

    2. Should we implement "dangerous travel", such as blizzards or random events causing sickness or bad weather?

    3. Would changing rivers as described above be a good or bad idea?

    4. Would it be better to just make units able to move very quickly on a railroad, as if they were being transported?
     
  2. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Making the units move fast would be simple to implement I would think. You could have a different looking Locomotive that Colonist convert to when they are set to travel long distances. There could also be a new command called "Travel by Railroad". Using this command you get a list of all the Cities connected by railroad to the City you are standing on. When you choose a destination city the unit converts to a Locomotive and begins to travel. It can either be instant arrival or train travel is much faster, say like 6 spaces per turn.

    Thats my thoughts on that for now.

    If you haven't done so TC01, you could make a post in the other 2 Wild West/Westward Ho threads to let people know who are subscribed to those threads that there is something we'd like to discuss with them.
     
  3. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    It seems to me that one way to slow things down would to make regular travel rather slow until paths, then roads and eventually railroads were built. I think it's too easy for us to forget how hard it was to create roads prior to a certain level of population and technology.

    Rise of Mankind has a neat path to road to paved road to highway sort of progression. One thing I like about it is that later roads cost money. Prior to about 75 years ago, there wasn't a lot of roads here in the US and rail was still the fastest way to get around. In the scope of the game, it was still usually faster to ship things.

    To bad there really isn't any way to realistically game play canals or riverways. About the only thing I can think of is that cities on a river tile could build a riverport similar to what they have in RoM to generate more commerce.
     
  4. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    arkham, I made a Trail Pathway mod some time ago that might interest you:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=324119

    It doesn't make travel harder, since roads don't require trails to be built, but the mod might give you a base for tweaking costs and etc. around.
     
  5. TC01

    TC01 Deity

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    After v0.3 is released (which will be after I add in Founding Fathers and finish the Fall Further version of my Fall from Heaven 2 civilization, possibly this weekend) I will see about rivers. I think I can make them work by making a river a feature.

    Androrc: Either for v0.4 or maybe v0.5 I think merging in your Trail modcomp might be cool. Kailric (who made it so that railroads require roads) could probably make it so that roads require trails.
     
  6. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Great :D
     
  7. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    Well my system's internal and external drives conked out recently so I ended up having to get Civ/Col via Steam so I'm new to Col2 so I haven't seen a lot so apologies if I keep bringing up ideas that have already been thought of.
     
  8. Androrc the Orc

    Androrc the Orc Emperor

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    Oh, don't be sorry, I like your ideas :goodjob:
     
  9. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    I know this is a travel thread, but one thing that they did historically was along long stretches between cities (which doesn't happen too often in Col2) they'd build forts.

    Over in the FfH modmod Orbis, forts are a bit more dynamic. For one thing, they create a small spot of cultural control which fits Col2 as forts where often used to claim territory for later colonization.

    I always felt that forts should 'eat' the worker that builds it and then if a settler begins a city on that tile, the city would start with a population bonus. Pioneers are to valuable for this in Col2, but I think fort should give some sort of bonus if a city is started on that tile.

    Of course I think that units "out of supply" in that they are out of any European's zone of cultural control would start to taking damage due to lack of supplies, problems with disease and what have you. That way, having forts in strategic places and Natives you are friendly with (since you could still heal normally in their cities) would be very important.

    Of course this sort of system would probably either have to be in a modmod or able to be turned off via the custom game otherwise the 'gamers' would complain they can't send their armies off into the howling wilderness for years on end with now penalties and thus making the game less fun. (/sarcasm). :crazyeye:
     
  10. TC01

    TC01 Deity

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    You mean some system like Starbases from Final Frontier? When a Construction Ship built a Starbase, it died and you got a pretty powerful unit capable of ranged attacks that could not move instead of an Improvement. They also spread your culture. Planetfall does something similar I believe. I like the idea.

    I think it might be interesting to implement the BTS Charlemagne system of not allowing units to heal in neutral/hostile territory without a "Wagon Train" (maybe a "Medic"). I don't know about making units take damage automatically here, but I may be able to make random events trigger on units to damage them. Such as "bad weather", "disease", and "lack of supplies".
     
  11. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    Well in Orbis when a worker creates a fort, a "Fort Commander" is created which is a combat unit that cannot move. It would initially only 'own' it's tile, but then over time got to owning the 1 tile ring and then if left totally alone would go to 2 tiles. While the fort didn't work any of the tiles, it did allow you to move a worker into that zone to start improving it so when you did get a settler, it would start in a more improved area which is pretty much what forts back in the Colonization period did. The Bunkers of Planetfall also 'eat' the worker but they also are capable of ranged attacks so I think the "Fort Commander" might be better.

    I mean perhaps you could have pioneers build outposts that would be similar to the standard forts now or build forts which would consume the pioneer and create a militia unit (where they get the guns will be left unsaid!)

    As for your second point, I hadn't thought of that but that definitely would work. Perhaps there could be a "Chuck Wagon" which would act as a supply wagon/medic that would allow units to heal. However, maybe a certain number of turns outside the cultural boundries without it either going into a friendly native city would cause the unit to be 'empty' and stop working till resupplied. I think that could be done, maybe, in the manner of how pirates in the Pirates mod won't do certain missions w/o rum. perhaps the Chuck wagon needs to have a certain amount of food/tools to work.
     
  12. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    I am working on the new routes in the mod and just wondering would should be the build time, cost, and movement modifier for each... trail, roads, and railroads.

    I am just testing out things at the moment.
     
  13. TC01

    TC01 Deity

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    Well, the way I have it at present-

    Trails cost 10, have a time of 160, and have a movement modifier of 45.

    Roads cost 20, have a time of 400, and have a movement modifier of 30.

    Railroads cost 40, have a time of 400, and have a movement modifier of 30.


    Although maybe Railroads should take a little longer but have a smaller movement modifier? (The smaller the number the faster).
     
  14. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Well, from my testing the movement modifiers don't stack so was you intending for Railroads to have the same movement rate as roads?
     
  15. TC01

    TC01 Deity

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    I was, but now I'm reconsidering it now that we're making it so only mechanized units get the movement modifier from Railroads.

    Maybe a movement modifier of 10 or 15 instead?
     
  16. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Hmm, well it would be nice if a Train could travel between 2 cities in one turn I would think. So whats the average length between Towns? Maybe something like 3 to 6 spaces so maybe the train can move like 6 spaces a turn. Wagons can go what 4 while on roads and techically they should be slower than trains :)
     

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