Travelling in Space Starving

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by drewgood, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. drewgood

    drewgood Chieftain

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    One change I'd like to see is if I have such advanced technology that I can travel space why can't I have a distribution network to distribute food to cities that have grown too large?
     
  2. CIVPhilzilla

    CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican

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    I agree, there needs to be some method of transporting food. In real life, NYC and LA don't grow their own food, they get their food from the midwest. I'd like to see a replication of this in CIV4.
     
  3. rhialto

    rhialto Emperor

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    I dunno. It actually seems quite realistic. In the real world, we DO have space travel, and yet we also DO have starvation. Funny how that happens.
     
  4. Gargantutron

    Gargantutron Chieftain

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    yes there is starvation. but NOT in any nation capable of spacetravel. :p

    in fact, no democracy on the planet has suffers starvation. i dont think that a democracy has ever had starvation. (except ancient Rome, but that wasnt a real democracy anyway :p)
     
  5. rhialto

    rhialto Emperor

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    India is a democracy. India has sufferred from starvation in modern times.
     
  6. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Well, to be fair, their is PLENTY of starvation in the world, but it tends to have more to do with political will, and the internal corruption within the city-although there is a climate/terrain factor involved too. It is a fact, though, that a a nation like England, Canada, USA, France and the like do NOT suffer any major food crises (i.e., none capable of getting in the news). Yet, by the same token, every city within these countries do NOT produce their own food-but transport it in from their 'breadbasket' regions. I feel that cities in Civ should be able to the same thing. I also feel that it IS possible to recreate the bulk of real world situations simply by imposing gameplay balance (one of those lovely Gameplay/realism convergances ;)!) This could be done by asking the following questions:

    1) Do any of your cities have a food surplus? If no, then they can only ship their food by creating starvation at home. If yes, then you have the basis for a food transport system.

    2) Is your starving city connected to the trade/distribution system? If no, then it can neither send nor recieive food. If yes, then it can recieve food normally.

    3) How advanced is the underlying transport technology? If it is low, then you can only ship a few units of food in a single turn, wheras if it is high, then you can ship almost as much as you want.

    4) How corrupt and/or socially advanced is your nation? This goes beyond just what government type you are in. Corruption and crime actually causes food sent to never reach its destination.

    5) How happy is the city you are sending food to? If a city you want to boost is very unhappy, perhaps with resistors and the like. Then food can end up 'disappearing' from food stores AFTER they arrive from the 'central storage area'.

    What these five points, alone, can achieve is to allow food (and shield) transport to occur, whilst still maintaining the balance of the game-particularly in relation to the placement of cities!!

    Yours,
    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  7. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    I have a solution that explains breadbasket regions and everything else. Look in my signature at the link about 'new way to think about civ'.
     
  8. TheDS

    TheDS Regular Riot

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    Look man, just don't over complicate things. You don't REALLY want to subject yourself to the tedium of managing crap like this. If you thought the caravans of food from Civ2 were a good idea well implemented, then you have WAAAAAYY too many heads stuck up your butt. :D
     
  9. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Hey, who says its gonna complicate things? Seriously, if you have the right interface, it will be barely more complex than adjusting the tile use in your city radii!! To compare it to the gross MM of caravans though just shows how little you understand what is being proposed here. Of course, a little extra management, every so often, is a SMALL price to pay when compared with a city which is starving, whilst it sits a mere 6-8 tiles away from a city with a bumper crop!!

    Yours,
    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  10. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    SEriously, this system eliminates almost any micromanagement and revolutionizes Civ.
     
  11. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    Off topic, but the starvation in India and many other places in the world was not due to lack of food, but to lack of money. A gentleman named Amarita Sen won a Nobel Prize for describing how this takes place.

    A quote from the Nobel website:
    "Sen's best-known work in this area is his book from 1981: Poverty and Famines: An Essay on Entitlement and Deprivation. Here, he challenges the common view that a shortage of food is the most important (sometimes the only) explanation for famine. On the basis of a careful study of a number of such catastrophes in India, Bangladesh, and Saharan countries, from the 1940s onwards, he found other explanatory factors. He argues that several observed phenomena cannot in fact be explained by a shortage of food alone, e.g. that famines have occurred even when the supply of food was not significantly lower than during previous years (without famines), or that faminestricken areas have sometimes exported food."
     
  12. Darwin420

    Darwin420 Darwin Plays Video Games

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    Food transport should be allowed, but I think mostly automatically. Let me explain.

    A road network must exist in order for food to be transported. Any city connected to the road network will automatical trade food so that ALL cities in the network meet the minimum food requirements, if possible. If not, then food from a surplus city is transported to the closest starving city (if equidistant, then to whatever city is most starving, or something).

    Any excess food can be stockpiled (maybe a Warehouse building in a city?) or sold. If you have a trade agreement to sell food to another Civ, that would be taken into account for the amount of food produced each turn. If you cannot meet your own city's requirements, then you can have the option to break your trade agreement (which would probably make the receiving civ mad).

    This way, food IS managed, but you don't have any additional micro-management.
     
  13. rhialto

    rhialto Emperor

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    That sounds rather like my suggestion from a while back, except yours requires a bit more player intervention. Under my system, any excess food is first sent to starving cities, and is then spread between connected cities in proportion to total culture. So say in a 2 city empire Kansas City has 20 excess food and 10 culture, but New York has 100 culture, then Kansas City gets to keep 2 food and sends 18 to New York.

    This might be modified by a slider (either on a civ basis or a city basis) which will control the % of food assigned to be redistributed vs kept by the city. So say that slider was set at 50% to be redistributed in the above example, Kansas City would keep 10 (50% of its surplus) + 1 (10/110 of the remaining 10) = 11, and New York would get 9 food.
     
  14. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    I have a slider solution that is easier on the integer heavy civ system. In each city you assign the amount of excess food it should try to achieve. If you don't produce enough food, you must then choose which cities get food taken away.
     
  15. Kayak

    Kayak Partisan

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    I assume by this that food production is no longer the basis for growth in population. If so something like this system would work well.
    I think food should flow towards wealth insdead of culture. The wealthiest cities would attract the most food becuase they could pay for it.
     
  16. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    Well, in my system, you can export food TO the 'central pool', and this earns the city money (which comes out of the national budget).
    Then, at any point, a city can 'import' food from the central pool, up to the maximum available, but must pay for it out of its own internal budget. If the city lacks the finances, then it cannot buy the food. A way around this is for the player to reduce the amount of money the city 'tithes' to the national budget each turn-this will free up money with which the city can then purchase the food it needs. This could be seen as a centralised 'food subsidy' for that city.

    Yours,
    Aussie_Lurker.
     

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