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Treatment of women in Saudi Arabia

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It's an interesting and generally moderate account. But I'd like to say that it's quite a regular Western thing to regard something alien as unenlightened or barbaric. Some things (I'm not referring specifically to the article) are justifiably deplorable, others not so.
 
A great, enlightening read...
No offense here, but to abridge your posts a bit so that like a summarization of the main points presents itself to the readers would be a good thing to do in the future.
Anyway, I read some parts of it and, well, nothing of it is actually quite shocking or surprising. If you don't like it there as a islamic raised girl, then moving from there would be the best advice I could give you.
I suggest you read more than just "parts". A woman would most likely not be able to even buy a plane ticket independently.
 
read the whole thing. thank you for posting it.
 
It's an interesting and generally moderate account. But I'd like to say that it's quite a regular Western thing to regard something alien as unenlightened or barbaric..

I think that is quite a human thing instead of a Western thing. After all, most of them think of us exactly the same way.

Some things (I'm not referring specifically to the article) are justifiably deplorable, others not so.

I find it rather impossible to be highly critical of one fundamentalist religion while giving essentially a free pass to western variations on the same theme.

I also find it quite interesting that the situation apparently got much worse immediately after we stationed a great deal of military forces in Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf War. From the article I posted on page 1:

The shift occurred toward the end of the 1980s and the early ’90s, notably during the war to liberate Kuwait following the Iraqi invasion in 1991. A group of young women dared to take the wheel as a protest for the right to drive. Their audacity provoked the ultraconservatives to close ranks and denounce their behavior as scandalous and sinful. Fingers were pointed at the university for fostering such decadence. The women professors who had participated in the protests were dismissed; the university rector created a Department of Islamic Higher Studies and implemented the total segregation of the sexes. From then on, all male teachers taught their female students remotely, via closed-circuit television screens.

In the absence of any secularizing interference from the government, the religious extremists were free to do as they pleased. One student noted the link between the political and religious powers that be. “When the former weakens, the second grows stronger.” Little by little, dogmatic rigor reached the point of absurdity. Abusive religious interference is the norm, even in the smallest details.

Not only did this act cause bin Laden to form the Al Qaeda and start targetting the US, it also apparently caused a repressive backlash in their culture against women and their rights in general.
 
Unfortunately, I think "moving away if they don't like it" is a concept not generally taught at all in Saudi Arabia.
Given that you need your husband's consent to leave and be escorted as you do so, I don't think they'll be going anywhere...
 
Keep driving Hummers. Your gas consumption has no negative effects at all.
 
Loud and clear. Any investment tips?

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Bwuy Fwannie Mae and Fweddie Mac. You'll make miwwions.
 
Well, I read the articles in their entirety, and found them really interesting. To those who posted them, thanks for a fascinating read. :)
 
cant argue with statistics - women are 70% more likely to cause car accidents
 
:lol: yes I can argue with "statistics". Women have lower insurance costs than men because they are less likely to cause accidents.
 
...Not only did this act cause bin Laden to form the Al Qaeda and start targetting the US, it also apparently caused a repressive backlash in their culture against women and their rights in general.

That is really not surprising. Many fundamuntalits nuts in SA did not like to see the "infidels" US troops stationing in their country. So the governments needed to satisfy those fundamuntalists on other topics: "social" ones ie against woman rights.
SA is among the most conservative coutries on Earth. Not only do they follow one of the most strict branch of Islam, but also have a very conservative and "closed" culture. I actually was offred a very well paid job there but refused it just because I did not want to live in a society so conservative. Now I am not sure woman conditions is much better in many other places: Somalia, Ethiopia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Northern India, etc.
 
I've read the whole thing and laughed more often than I frowned. This is not the first time I've read a text about this subject and I can tell you that countries like Egypt ain't a whole lot better. Surely the death and decay that follows the conservatism in S-A is mostly missing there, but living a life without dignity and freedom is bad no matter how you look at it.

It's good to know these people also got a vote in the UN discussion about human rights. It makes me shiver in delight, oh joy.
 
I think that is quite a human thing instead of a Western thing. After all, most of them think of us exactly the same way.

I agree, but perhaps it is because Westerners tend to speak their mind more that I have more experience with them doing so. Besides, it probably also has to do with the liberal tradition and such philosophical background including Christianity.

I've read the whole thing and laughed more often than I frowned. This is not the first time I've read a text about this subject and I can tell you that countries like Egypt ain't a whole lot better. Surely the death and decay that follows the conservatism in S-A is mostly missing there, but living a life without dignity and freedom is bad no matter how you look at it.

It's good to know these people also got a vote in the UN discussion about human rights. It makes me shiver in delight, oh joy.

Political correctness demands that pretty much everyone gets a vote. Before you criticise an international organisation, look into the mirror. Unless you're a real life troll and douche, you're most likely going to subscribe to a lot of political correctness. It's not wrong. It's just necessary, and in this case necessary if there's going to be any possible objectivity through a plurality of values.

Of course that doesn't give an excuse for relativism. But you can't look to an organisation with a role like the UN to be decisive here.
 
Political correctness demands that pretty much everyone gets a vote. Before you criticise an international organisation, look into the mirror. Unless you're a real life troll and douche, you're most likely going to subscribe to a lot of political correctness. It's not wrong. It's just necessary, and in this case necessary if there's going to be any possible objectivity through a plurality of values.

You're using the terms wrong - value pluralism is not the same thing as political correctness.
 
You're using the terms wrong - value pluralism is not the same thing as political correctness.

Didn't say they were the same, but they're connected through objectivity. It is politically correct to tray and be objective.
 
Didn't say they were the same, but they're connected through objectivity. It is politically correct to tray and be objective.

In what sense? I've seen political correctness being used more as an excuse for moral relativism ("everyone has different values therefore all values are equally valid therefore we should tolerate them") as opposed to objectivity.
 
IIRC, Women have lower insurance costs than men because the average damage cost of their accidents in lower. They actually are involved in more accidents.

IIrc, women are involved in far more accidents, but most of these involve hitting inanimate objects like telephone poles while men tend to hit other cars.

I've also heard that men's accident tend to kill more mostly because men are far more likely to drive with passengers in the car. Also, having passengers apparently makes men more responsible and less competitive while it makes women more distracted.
 
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