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Triplanes ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by kkapalk, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. kkapalk

    kkapalk Warlord

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    Hi guys. I have something that has been puzzling me. I am currently playing as Egypt against six other civs, and got DOW'D by Morocco. Our borders were very close and cities next to each other. He was fairly advanced compared to me and had a good few aircraft, (Triplanes and great war bombers). He declared war and started destroying my units and bombing my nearby cities. I hastily researched flight and bought a couple of Triplanes to defend said cities. The puzzling thing was that my aircraft had absolutely no effect on his attacks. I set both for intercept in a certain city, and it was this city that he was bombing. But at no point did my Triplanes ever damage any of the attacking planes. He just kept bombing with both aircraft units, and I never got the, "Thanks to your Triplane the enemy unit" ...... etc. Morocco did eventually relent and accepted peace, but I don't understand why he suffered no damage to his planes? Is there a special promotion I am missing?
    Thanks, Kev.
     
  2. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    I'm not sure I can answer this completely. First off, Triplanes have only 50 % chance to intercept, so if it was only one turn, that might explain it (25 % chance both of them failed). If this happened repeatedly, obviously chances are slim that they wouldn't intercept at all. There has been some talk about a bug causing airplanes to not intercept when Bombers target a city, but I think that testing has shown this not to be true - however, the animation where the planes fly out doesn't seem to trigger in this instance, but the event log should show that the planes actually did intercept. Not sure about whether the text shows, however, so this might or might not be what you experienced. From what you say, it does sound like you use the planes properly (i.e. not take action, press intercept button), so it ought to work.
     
  3. Adjuvant

    Adjuvant Emperor

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    I feel they are independent events at 50%, not a sequential probability subset.
     
  4. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    Wait, Triplanes only have a 50% chance to intercept? I did not know that...
     
  5. Jampine

    Jampine Warlord

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    50% chance eh? I get the feeling this is due to the look outs face the wrong way when watching for bombers...
     
  6. lindsay40k

    lindsay40k Emperor

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    Would the bombers have access to a promotion that helps them avoid interception?
     
  7. SYKOJAK

    SYKOJAK Warlord

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    That also could be why your Triplanes are not intercepting those Bombers.
     
  8. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Yes, and two independent events at 50% would have a 25% chance to get tails+tails.
     
  9. GoStu

    GoStu King

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    Something doesn't seem right here; I'm pretty sure Evasion reduces damage taken by Intercept, not a chance to avoid all of it. Also, I've never observed any interceptor unit (fighter or AA gun) fail; it's more a matter of damage inflicted. A Triplane may hurt but a Jet fighter slays
     
  10. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    The exact same thing has happened to me. Assyria DOWed me with GWB, and I put a few mobile SAMs in the city to intercept. Problem was, all the missile operators were sleeping or something, because not a single plane was shot down. This continued for a few turns until he captured my cap. I was forced to reload a save 20 turns back and build more units, as well as bribe Morocco to war with Assyria. At first blamed the loss of my city on my ineptitude but now that I think about it there's no way 4 infantry, 2 machine guns, 1 normal artillery, and at most 10 GWB can take down a 130-strength city with 2 mobile SAMs, several surrounding troops, and oligarchy.
     
  11. Civsassin

    Civsassin Immortal

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    Perhaps the ai sent an air sweep unit or units.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
     
  12. Fish Man

    Fish Man Emperor

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    Does the AI even ever do that? Tactical AI is known to be stupid, and does things like: using triplanes the same as GWB, bombing a city with several AA units around it, etc. Did a recent patch fix this?
     
  13. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    The only time I've ever actually seen a triplane intercept was when another triplane did an airsweep of the city. Of course, nowhere is it stated in the civilopedia what the intercept radius actually is. Same for all units that can intercept? Exponential decay as radius increases?

    Related question, was the bug where atomic bombers could not be intercepted ever fixed?
     
  14. Sturmgewher88mm

    Sturmgewher88mm Kaiser

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    You're right about the evasion promotion, but I'd like to point out that A bombs and missiles are never intercepted.
     
  15. Sturmgewher88mm

    Sturmgewher88mm Kaiser

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    To my knowledge, no.
     
  16. kkapalk

    kkapalk Warlord

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    One point to add, it was both Great War Bombers and Triplanes that avoided being hit. I upgraded to fighters as soon as I could and they did indeed intercept the oncoming planes. Like another poster said, maybe the Triplanes did slightly intercept but no text appeared?
     
  17. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    YES, in my current game the Persia AI actually DID send in Triplanes to air-sweep my AA Guns. I was amazed, because I'd never seen AI do this before. They did not, however, air-sweep the Triplanes I had also stationed in town, but that might have been because they chose to use the rest of their Triplanes for intercept, because they did subsequently intercept my GW Bombers several times. So AI does seem to be improved in this area!

    About Fighters not intercepting Atomic Bombers, was that even a bug? I hate this feature (and disabled nukes for the same reason) but I thought that was how it was supposed to work.
     
  18. Barghaest

    Barghaest King

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    There aren't two independent events. If a specific unit is selected to intercept and it's chance fails (Triplanes have a 50% chance and a few of the ships have a 20-40%) there is no fallback attempt by another unit. That unit gets past.

    I'd seen this a lot when fighting Poland a few games back... they'd attack with one plane, I'd intercept. They attacking with a bomber and it'd get through... then their next bomber would be intercepted by my third intercepting unit.

    With ships, your destroyers might still fire but do no damage (and message won't mention interception) but triplanes that fail to intercept won't always animate the attempt (a few times they will and the message will make no mention of interception just the core attack)

    Depends on if the Evasion is an earned promotion or the inherent one. The earned one reduced damage while the unit attribute (mainly on Stealth) gives a chance for full avoidance.

    And I have seen an intercept attempt fail and that is what caused me to look at inherent promos for units like Triplane and Destroyer because I wanted to know why they didn't intercept and sure enough they have a fixed percent chance to intercept (not reduction on damage but chance of not intercepting). If the die roll fails it still uses their attempt, they don't keep trying until they succeed if multiple air units are attacking.

    From WWII Fighters onward there's 100% of interception from planes - so it's only noticeable on triplanes in that category... as for AA guns, they also have a 100% chance. Destroyers/Missile Cruisers have a 40ish chance to intercept and don't think anything still uses the 20% chance as of BNW (although promo is still listed under Attributes category of promotions).

    Not a bug. Nukes are not subject to interception. It's intended for two reasons - first, they're doing a scripted event not a ranged attack and the mechanics work a little different (for instance intercepted Air Strike does less damage to the target and a bit to the interceptor whereas that wouldn't matter for a nuke, so unless your interceptor outright destroyed the atomic bomber - highly unlikely - it wouldn't have an impact anyway) and secondly because of the cost of using the atomic bomber (self-destruction) the weapon carries a guarantee of sorts - you get to use it and it does what it is programmed to do then goes away. I believe missiles (guided and nuclear) also follow these protocols.
     
  19. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    We're talking about two different things. I was talking about two subsequent bombers. First bomber has 50 % chance to get by. Second bomber also has 50 % chance to get by. Chance that both bombers get by (and hence you don't see any interception) is 25 %.

    About the Nukes carrying the cost in themselves: The problem with this (and I know this is not a discussion about nukes, but I just want to throw this in) is that the uranium used for the nuke magically reappears once you've dropped the nuke. So yes, the hammers put into the nuke are lost, but the resource isn't, meaning that you can build a new nuke from the same uranium used for the first nuke. This is for me one of the larger frustrations with the resource system in civ5.
     
  20. krc

    krc King

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    The XML files contain a column for 'AirInterceptRadius'. This is 5 for triplanes, 8 for fighters, and 10 for jet fighters. (It is 2 for AA, SAM, and destroyers, and 3 for missile cruisers.)

    A long time (and possibly two expansions) ago, there was a thread about interceptions only working if they attacked a different tile than the one where the interceptor was placed. I can't remember if this was ever confirmed.
     

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