1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Triumvirate Government v3.0

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by Alphawolf, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    I corrected a few things and added more offices, please tell me what you think.

    The Government of the Triumvirate

    Article 1 The Federal Government

    A) The Legislative Branch
    I. This branch consists of one house known as Citizens Assembly.

    II. The Citizens Assembly shall consist of all citizens of the Nation except those holding elected offices that term. The Citizens Assembly shall be presided over by an elected Speaker.
    IIA. The Powers and Duties of the Speaker:
    1. The Speaker shall be in charge of all floor votes.
    2. A floor vote may be called for by any member of the Citizens Assembly.
    A. To call a floor vote a member of the Citizens Assembly shall PM the Speaker. If the member is unable to PM the Speaker for what ever reason the Member shall post where appropriate.
    B. After being asked to call a floor vote the Speaker shall post a thread in the discussions.
    C. If at least ten other members post saying they agree to have a vote on that issue the Speaker shall open a poll.
    D. The poll will have three options: Yes/No/Abstain.
    E. If the Yes votes number over 50% the measure shall have passed; if the Yes votes number exactly 50% or less the measure shall have failed.​
    3. The Deputy Speaker shall be the runner up in the election.
    4. The Speaker may not be impeached.​
    III. Only the Citizens Assembly may decide six things: Declare War/Make Peace/Alliance, to change civics, to begin construction on a Great Wonder/National Wonder/Project, what to do with great people, a change in Taxes (the science/treasury meter) higher that 10% no more than once every 5 turns, and where to build new cities.

    IV. The Executive Branch must enforce a vote of the Citizens Assembly even if they disagree with the decision.

    V. The Citizens Assembly may bring an impeachment/no confidence vote against the Triumvirate at anytime.
    VA. An impeachment will be held as such: any member of the Legislative branch may start a poll to ask for the impeachment of the Triumvirate (either all three leave office or none of them). This poll will be open 48 hours only, for the motion to carry at least 3/4 (75%) must have voted in favor. If the motion is carried another poll will be set up the same manner and if in it, impeachment wins the Triumvirate is removed from office.​


    B) The Executive Branch
    I. This branch consists of the Triumvirate and any and all elected and appointed Cabinet Officials.
    IA. The Triumvirate will consist of the President, Secretary of State, and the
    Minister of War.
    IB. The Cabinet Officials will be any office that we the citizens deem
    necessary to have that is not included as part of the Triumvirate, the
    Judiciary, or a Gubernatorial office. The Cabinet shall consist of the Censor Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.​

    II. The Powers and Duties or the Triumvirate.
    IIA. The Powers and Duties of the President
    1. The President nominates candidates from the nomination pool the Secretary of State, Minister of War, and the Chief Justice of the Court and also chooses the Special Prosecutor.
    2. During the Turnchat the President may order the ending of the game for a poll vote, i.e.: war, peace, change in Tax, change in Civics, where to build a new cities, or any thing else he deems appropriate.
    3. Only the President may ask the Citizens Assembly for a Declaration of WAR.
    4. The units the President controls
    A. The President shall control all Settler and the units assigned to them.
    B. The President shall control all naval units.​
    5. The President may with the unanimous consent of the Triumvirate ask the Citizens Assembly for permission to begin work on a Great Wonder/National Wonder/Project.
    6. During War time the President may preempt the control of workers and choose the improvements to be constructed in Cities.
    7. The President shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.
    A. The nominations for President may not be self nominations.
    B. Each Citizen may nominate only one Citizen for President.​
    8. The President shall have the entire power of the Triumvirate for the first turn.​
    IIB. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of State
    1. The Secretary of State shall have complete control of the Foreign policy of our nation with the exception of War/Peace/Alliance, trade/sell/buy of techs, and trade of cities.
    A. The Secretary of State needs the permission of the Citizens Assembly: War/Peace/Alliance or the giving away of one of our Nation's cities.
    B. The Secretary of State needs the unanimous permission of the Triumvirate to accept a city or to trade/sell techs.
    C. Secretary of State needs the permission of the President to buy techs or in any deal in which we loose more than 2/5 (20%) of our Treasury.​
    2. The nominations and election of The Secretary of State shall be held as follows
    A. All nominations for Secretary of State will be self nominations.
    B. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Secretary of State.
    C. The Secretary of State shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Write in candidates are allowed in the general election but not in the runoff. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.​
    IIC. The Powers and Duties of the Secretary of War
    1. The Secretary of War shall have complete control of all military land units with the exception of garrisons under the control of Governors.
    A. The Secretary of War may move any military land units anywhere in our territory, unclaimed territory, enemy territory, or allied territory.​
    2. Outside of our territory or enemy territory the Secretary of War need the President's permission to move beyond a certain boundary of our borders.
    A. The Secretary of War needs the unanimous permission of the Triumvirate to attack an enemy city.
    B. The Secretary of War my not attack a city or unit of a neutral or allied Civilization.​
    3. The Secretary of War shall have complete control of all air units.
    4. During War time the Secretary of War may take control of any unit assigned as a garrison to a City as long as the city if left with at least one left.
    5. The nominations and election of the Secretary of War shall be held as follows
    A. All nominations for Secretary of War will be self nominations
    B. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Secretary of War.
    C. The Secretary of War shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Write in candidates are allowed in the general election but not in the runoff. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.​

    III. The Cabinet
    IIIA. The Cabinet shall consist of, in order of seniority, the Censor, Minister of Interior, Minster of Culture, Minister of Science, and Director of Intelligence.
    IIIB. The Powers and Duties of the Censor:
    1. The Censor be in charge of maintaining the Census and shall be the Official in charge of all elections.
    2. With the help of a Moderator the Censor shall make sure that only citizens voted in an election and shall be responsible for the official results of an election and for validating an election.
    3. The nomination and election for the Censor shall be held as follows:
    A. Nominations for Censor can be self nominations or a candidate can be nominated by someone else.
    B. The Censor shall be the candidates with the highest number of votes.
    C. The Deputy Censor shall be the runner up in the election.​
    4. The Censor may not be impeached.​
    IIIC. The Powers and Duties of the Minister of Interior:
    1. The Minister of the Interior shall be in control of all workers not assigned to Governors.
    2. The Minister of the Interior shall work with the Governors and create a plan of which city improvements shall be constructed in a city and when.
    3. The Minister of the Interior shall keep track of the resources in our territory and where they are.
    4. These powers may be preempted by the President during War time.
    5. The nomination and election for the Minister of the Interior shall be held as follows:
    A. Nominations for Minister of the Interior can be self nominations or a candidate can be nominated by someone else.
    B.The Minister of the Interior shall be the candidates with the highest number of votes.
    C. The Deputy Minister of the Interior shall be the runner up in the election.​
    6. The Minister of the Interior may not be impeached.​
    IIID. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Culture:
    1. The Minister of Culture shall keep track of the Culture buildings in each city, the Culture of each city, and the religions in each city throughout the Empire. And shall may this information available to any citizen upon request.
    2. The Minister of Culture shall be in charge of all Missionaries.
    3. The Minister of Culture may require a culture building to built in a City once every 20 turns. And what type of building it shall be.
    4. The nomination and election for the Minister of the Culture shall be held as follows:
    A. Nominations for Minister of the Culture can be self nominations or a candidate can be nominated by someone else.
    B. The Minister of the Culture shall be the candidates with the highest number of votes.
    C. The Deputy Minister of the Culture shall be the runner up in the election.​
    5. The Minister of the Culture may not be impeached.​
    IIIE. Powers and Duties of the Minister of Science:
    1. The Minister of Science shall choose what technology will be researched.
    2. The Minister of Science shall keep a list of at least three technologies that are to be researched next and in what order.
    3. This list is subject to the review and revision of the Citizens Assembly.
    4. The nomination and election for the Minister of the Science shall be held as follows:
    A. Nominations for Minister of the Science can be self nominations or a candidate can be nominated by someone else.
    B. The Minister of the Science shall be the candidates with the highest number of votes.
    C. The Deputy Minister of the Science shall be the runner up in the election.​
    5. The Minister of the Science may not be impeached.​
    IIIF. Powers and Duties of the Director of Intelligence:
    1. The Director of Intelligence shall keep records of all known Empires. The cities, religion, military units, wonders, and civics of those Empires. Records shall also be kept of the size, religion, improvements, and anything else deemed necessary about their cities.
    2. The Director of Intelligence shall have complete control of all spies.
    3. The nomination and election for the Director of Intelligence shall be held as follows:
    A. Nominations for Director of Intelligence can be self nominations or a candidate can be nominated by someone else.
    B. The Director of Intelligence shall be the candidates with the highest number of votes.
    C. The Deputy Director of Intelligence shall be the runner up in the election.​
    4. The Director of Intelligence may not be impeached.​

    IV. Vacancies
    IVA. Should a vacancy occur in the Triumvirate the President shall take over the duties of the vacant office. Should the President be the vacant office the Secretary of State shall take over the duties of the President. Should both the offices of President and Secretary of State be vacant the Secretary of War shall take over the duties of both offices. Should the entire Triumvirate be vacant the most senior of the Cabinet members shall take over the duties of Triumvirate.
    IVB. Should any vacancy occur in the Cabinet the Deputy shall take over the duties of that office. The word acting shall be included in the title of office.​


    C) The Judicial Branch
    I. The Judicial Branch will the known as The Court, it will consist of three Judges, a Chief Justice, two Associate Justices an Advocate pool and Special Prosecutor pool.
    IA. The Powers and Duties of the Chief Justice:
    1. The Chief Justice shall oversee and rule on all court cases.
    2. The Chief Justice shall with the help of the Associate Justices insure that no political parties gain control of government in a way that citizens not of this party can not hold office or have a say in government.
    3. The nominations and election of the Chief Justice shall be held as follows:
    A. All nominations for Chief Justice will be self nominations.
    B. The President shall take at least 5 but no more that ten of self nominations and hold a poll for the next term's Chief Justice.
    C. The Chief Justice shall be elected in a poll of all citizens, if the candidate with the most votes receives less that 1/3 (33%) of the votes a runoff will be held unless the winning candidate has 10% more votes that the candidate with the second highest number of votes. Said runoff will be between the two candidates with the highest number of votes.​
    IB. The Powers and Duties of the Associate Justices
    1. The Associate Justices shall rule on all court cases.
    2. The Associate Justices shall work with the Chief Justice to Police political parties.
    3. The nominations and elections for the Associate Justices shall be held as follows.
    A. Nominations for Associate Justices can be self nominations or some can nominate you.
    B. The Associate Justices shall be the two candidates with the highest number of votes.​
    IC. No Judge may be impeached.
    ID. For the first term there shall only be one judge and that shall be an Associate Justice.​

    II. The Advocate and Special Prosecutor will not be elected offices, but shall be selected from pools of names. A new pool is opened each turn. Those citizens who wish to serve in this position and not holding and elected office this turn shall put their names into said pool. Citizens may put their name into both pools.
    IIA. The Advocate pool is where the citizens who wish to serve as defense put their names. Any citizen who is accused of a crime may select their advocate from the pool.
    IIB. The Special Prosecutor pool is where the citizens who wish to serve as the prosecution put their names. When a citizen is accused of a crime the President shall select a prosecutor from the pool.​


    D) Term Limits
    I. Anyone may serve in an elected Federal Government office as many times as they want, but may not serve two terms in a row. This does not apply to deputies.



    Article 2 The Local Government

    A) Governors
    I. Governors are the elected officials that run cities
    IA. The Powers and Duties of the Governors:
    1. The Governors may move any workers or garrison units assigned to them anywhere in there city's radius.
    2. The Governor shall work with the Minister of the Interior to decide which improvement shall be built.
    3. A Governor of a city shall be elected by the citizens that reside in that city.
    A. In a Gubernatorial election the candidate with the greatest number of votes wins.​
    4. In cities without at least three citizens residing in them, the Governor shall be appointed by the Minister of the Interior.
    5. Governors may not be impeached.​
     
  2. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    This in no way reflects upon the other Founding Fathers, etc. Please tell me what you think.

    The powers of some of the positions change depending on whether we are at war or not.

    I've heard from a couple of people that we should have a government that changes depending on which civics we are using, I could try to incorporate that if you want to give me some ideas/examples.

    -the Wolf
     
  3. Piparoo

    Piparoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36
    Nice work! Here are two questions/clarifications I'm looking for.

    1. I'm confused about the procedures of war. Does the citizens assembly initiate a vote to go to war or does the president?

    2. In what situations would there be workers not under the control of a city governor? It seems like most of the time, workers are in one city or another. Is the minister of the interior in control of those workers outside of a nation's borders?

    Also, I'm assuming that all members may participate in all elections-including members of the triumvirate, cabinet and governors.

    Thanks!
     
  4. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Either, the President can ask for a Declaration of War or the Citizens Assembly can vote for spontaneously.

    I'm open to ideas here. Some workers will need to be under the control of the Minister of the Interior to connect cities and improve parts of the empire not inside a city's radius, since the Governor will only be concerned with their own cities.

    I don't quite understand what you're asking here, but yes citizens may vote in any election and run in any election (may only run for President if someone nominates them first).

    -the Wolf
     
  5. Piparoo

    Piparoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36
    Basically I was just wondering if candidates (like the president) can vote for themselves or if they must abstain.
     
  6. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Yes, they can.

    -the Wolf
     
  7. Knightlancer

    Knightlancer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    In Hawaii
    Thank you Alpha for regaling us with another one of your great lawyer ideas. :lol: In all honesty I like this one, especially the party about the Court being able to control parties.

    -KL
     
  8. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Zeven, Germany (Lower Saxony ;)
    First of all: Great work and big effort, Alpha! Thank you for that! :)
    My 20 cents (not 2 cents because this thing is so long... :D ) :

    We might have a "mechanical" problem here: In game other civ's often show up and "demand" something and it's either "do or forget about it": No time for asking the triumphirate. Especially when you don't play the game internet-based, but get it downloaded and uploaded again... Otherwise: Every member of the government (ok ok, maybe I'm slightly exaggerating here) has to be online and they have to play together real-time-wise...
    The Secretary of state should have permission to accept or decline demands without asking the other members of the triumvirate in order to ensure playability... (BTW: How should this work anyway without being online in the game together?? To me this seems to be a must in order to participate at least in the triumvirate?? I would welcome your thoughts on this (maybe p.m. me since it's a little off-topic here). Personally I would like to eneable also players without Internet-access while playing to be part of the triumvirate, but how??...



    A general question here: This is included quite often: Why do there have to be "only" self-nominations? IMHO, you should be able to nominate someone anytime for any job without making this necessary like when running for president (this is good, btw). We should put into the constitution (or whatever law-layer you want) that nomination for other people

    1. have to be accepted within X days of the nomination (2 days maybe)
    2. that the "nominator" has to send the nominated person a p.m. to ensure knowledge of this nomination in case he/she isn't around THAT regularly...

    how about 3-6 to keep the voting-results more accurate?? (ensure non-Weimar-republic here... ;) )

    This job should be done by the president, IMO. Usually I'm all for power-diversification, but in this case it's only making things more complicated...

    just a copy/paste mistake: insert "Minister of Science" in this paragraph...



    Regarding the "special" importance of this position I would welcome HERE (only HERE) that the triumvirate can "select" a citizen as Director of Intelligence giving this job a slightly more "real" touch as in RL Intelligence Agency directors don't get voted at all ;)



    Why only on the first? I'm all for a simple jurisdicial branch in our DG. Maybe there should be another "juridical-triumvirate" with 3-5 judges (one of them maybe the primus-inter-pares when having a "dead vote") and this triumvirate can rule the juridicial branch.

    This point needs a deeper clarification in all: HOW can the justice(s) fulfill their responsibilities: Exactly what powers should he/they have? Maybe you should insert another paragraph with sort of the following text: "If citizens file cases against the government because it defines a certain issue as "minor change" the justice(s) decide wether it IS a minor change or not. If it isn't, a poll must be held to bring the "major change" through. The justices hereby have the final decision wether a change of rules or in gameplay is minor or major. Every citizen can question the definition made by the government and call the justice(s) for clarification."
    Something like that... :p




    In case the majority agrees tzo my proposal to not establish a minister of the interior this has to be changed...


    What's that???

    That's it... I hope you find it helpful. I'm not demanding I know the right thing or the full truth but those would be my suggestions... Comments welcomed! :D

    Stilgar​
     
  9. Piparoo

    Piparoo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    36
    Some good points here
    I agree with this one.


    I think 5-10 is fine here but don't have a strong feeling either way.

    I like the idea of having a minister of the interior. It may make for some confrontations with the governors regarding the delegation of power but isn't that what government is all about?


    This is a great idea, I really like it


    This would be useful as well.


    I think I can nswer this one. If you're wondering what a gubernatorial election is-it's the election to appoint a governor. It just has a special name. ;)

    Cheers!
     
  10. Gloriana

    Gloriana Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    118
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Brilliant brilliant brilliant, I'm really amazed at the work you do Alphawolf, not only the amount but also the quality of it! :)

    I just have a question here: what are the duties of Judges? You have the Chief Justive rule on all COURT cases, and the Associate Justices rule on all cases. Where are the judges here and what's the difference, or was that just a typo?
    Also: Who or what determines which Judge/Associate Justice shall preside over a case, or will they preside over a case all together and come to a unanimous decision? And then how can the Chief Justice rule?
     
  11. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    I'm replying to Stilgar08, Piparoo, and Gloriana here.

    Stilgar08
    If the DP is anyone other than the Secretary of State the DP will have to ask the SoS what to do and I would assume that the other two members of the Triumvirate would be online to take care of their responsibilities. You do bring up a good point though I change it to "all present members of the Triumvirate".

    I did it to keep the SoS from getting to powerful, and to give more reasons for the Triumvirate for existing.

    So that we wouldn't have to do the whole exceptance of nomination thing but I'll change that

    I dense today, I don't under stand what you mean here.

    :goodjob: I'm stealing this. ;)

    How true we certinly don't want someone to come to power and burn the Bunderstag (I know I spelled it wrong) then declare Martial Law. I'll change it.

    How so?

    What are you talking about, I had no mistakes. :mischief: (fixed)

    I like that idea. I'll think about it, it has merit.

    Consider the Judicial still under construction. I'm PMing you about part of that.

    It's the complexity of American/English. Piparoo's right it's a Governor election.


    Piparoo
    I'll change the nominations.


    :king:

    I like it to, but I need to discuss it with some people.

    You're right.


    Gloriana
    Thank you.

    Cough, Cough Typo.

    I had planned a way and forgot to include it. :blush: They all preside over a trial. The Chief is the one that maintains decorum. The Associates rule on a case but if the are split they the Chief casts the deciding vote.
     
  12. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    The upper law (constitution) is largely drafted. Please check to see if this proposal would fit within the "working draft constitution".
     
  13. Nomad Bryce

    Nomad Bryce Innovian UU Cannon Turtle

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Glenside PA
    Excelent Alphawolf, absolutely excelent. I can see you are well on your way to a great constitution. I hope you do keep the idea of local government in the final draft, I find that to be an interesting (although certainly not very powerful) aspect of the proposal =]
     
  14. RoboPig

    RoboPig Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,640
    hmm....seems like the previous demo game governments.
     
  15. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    13,108
    Location:
    Arizona, USA (it's a dry heat)
    I got a PM saying this comment was confusing, sorry...

    The constitution draft is here

    This Triumvirate Government would go mostly into the Code of Laws. The point of my earlier post was that a comparison between this and the draft Constitution needs to be made to find out if there are any areas of conflict. Anything already covered by the Con. Draft would need to be removed from this one. I'm not saying there are or aren't sections in conflict or already covered, have been far too busy at work to make those comparisons myself.
     
  16. Alphawolf

    Alphawolf Basileus, Founding Father

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2005
    Messages:
    873
    Location:
    Nashville, Tennessee
    As I said a work in progress. I PMing you a question DaveShack.

    -the Wolf
     
  17. Man'O'Action

    Man'O'Action Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    66
    Who will have the final say in a disagreement between a governor and the Minister of Interior? If for examplet the governor of a city would like to build a granary, and the minister wants a temple or something similar.

    If the Minister is in control, what recourse does the governor have to manage his city?
     
  18. Slim_Chance

    Slim_Chance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    American South East
    Alpha left it like that so that the citizens could decide in the Code of Laws.
     
  19. Man'O'Action

    Man'O'Action Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2005
    Messages:
    66
    I'm a noob, so there may be some more questions like that before I'm through.
     
  20. Slim_Chance

    Slim_Chance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    44
    Location:
    American South East
    Don't worry about it, he didn't made it clear I PM him about it yesterday, because I was confused. ;)
     

Share This Page