Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by Alphawolf, Dec 24, 2005.
Change Log of 5.3 to 6.0:
Changes made 12:25 12-25-2005
Changes made from 6.0 to 6.1
Changes made from 6.1 to 6.2
Changes made at 04:37PM CST 12-27-2005
Can you define what a "State" is please? It is metioned in Section 2, Sub-section A, Clause I, Sub-Clause IC.
A State (or Province) is a collection of cities which are managed by a governor. In previous DemoGames, we have usually had geographic boundaries for states / provinces. This game we may also do it that way, or we may have a disjoint collection.
There is some disagreement about whether State or Province should be the term to use. Many people find State to be too US-centric given that this is a very international game.
I believe people from Germany, Australia, and Mexico plus whatever others I don't know about would disagree with you. Also the idea that provinces are the most common forms for subdividing nations is not true, from my research regions are the most common followed by districts. On a different note I thought about using Prefectures instead of States for a more Romanesque feel.
Speaking of states, the Constitution says a country can only be divided into states when it has at least 5 cities. However, all states must have 3 cities. Logically, any country must be divided into at least 2 states. So if we make a state when the country only has 5 cities, what do we do with the two extra cities? Will we allow some cities to stay outside a state? Will we treat new settled/conquered lands as territories?
Could you clarify this? Are you saying if I wanted to bump Research down 40%, I could avoid any vote by bumping it down in 20% increments over 6 turns? Since a term would last at least 10 turns, I think any President could change it by 40+% without a vote as it currently stands.
And what about gold dumps? (Switching from mostly-Research to mostly-Gold after you research a new tech to upgrade units before you resume Research.) Would that require 2 votes? (One to switch to mostly-Gold, another one to switch back.) Could you combine that into one vote?
Until we have at least 5 cities, each one is an independent entity, with its own governor.
When we build or acquire the 5th city, there are two options
A state of 3 or more cities and the remainder continue as independent cities, resulting in as few as 1 governor (if all 5 cities go into the state) and as many as 3 governors (1 state of 3 cities, 2 independents).
No state is created, in which case we stick with 5 independent cities.
It should be clear from the above that creating a state eliminates at least one governor at the same time, unless we built / acquired two or more cities the same turnchat. (one governor could then keep the previous city and add the two additional ones to make a state, without taking away a governor position)
Hmmm, that's not entirely clear in the ruleset, DS.
AlphaWolf - this is an area that you might want to clarify and detail some. There are some gaps in there that I'm not getting the same impression as DS is, but that's because I can't figure out which way the ruleset, or you, goes.
DS is right in what I meant. Any thoughts on how I can clarify it with out putting in an example?
Section 3 A IIA under polling standards:
IIA. Polls posted by an elected official on an area they control are considered official and binding unless specifically stated otherwise. Polls posted by citizens, by officials outside their area or by officials in their area explicitly noted as such are considered unofficial, and do not bind officials in any way.
has a conflict with section 1 A IVA on floor votes edit: specifically in the area that polls posted by non-officials (e.g. Assembly Floor Votes) are official
IVA. Debates and Votes may be called and posted by any member of the Citizens Assembly.
Section 1 is correct, section 3 is a carryover from a time when we didn't have canonized floor votes.
It will be removed shortly.
Section 4 AII regarding the President being able to choose to play all sessions or use the DP pool: I'd suggest letting the President choose this on a session by session basis. For example, we elect 5 DPs. The President might want to play session 1, then let DP's 1-3 play (sessions 2-4), then President plays session 5, then DP's 4-5 play sessions 6-7.
Here are some more ideas...
If the DP is unavailable to play at the designated time, the highest ranking Tri or Cabinet member present at the chat can pick up the game and play in place of the DP who is AWOL. In this case, the DP loses his/her slot.
If the DP pool is used up, the rotation starts again at the top of the list.
And while I'm thinking here, if an offline session results are not posted within 48 hours of the designated starting time, the DP is skipped and the next DP takes over.
Those are good ideas, I'll put them in in the morning. For now good night and
Add this to the beginning of it:
1. States are groups of cities run by a single governor.
(2. Cities within states do not have their own governor.)
Version 6.2 is up; the Change Log is on the third post in this thread.
In Political Science we generally use the term "state" to refer to refer to a country. The "correct" term would be province. The collection of provinces ruled by the central government (being sovereign) would then be The State. But then all these terms are purely cosmetic. Generally a state has more powers than a province though.
But then again, as I said, the choice is purely cosmetic. I like the prefecture suggestion though!
I suggest it's time to post a mock poll. Traditionally that is the way to inform the citizens that debate will close in 24 hours unless a killer comment comes up. We'll already be looking at elections starting before the ratification poll closes, which doesn't seem like a huge problem but has caused some doozies in the past.
Also for posterity's sake you probably want to copy the current version which the poll will refer to into new posts, just to be sure there can be no questions later on about if/when it was edited.
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