Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by Krill, Jun 23, 2009.
Very nice plan, I think it's worth the risk.
If Kaz wants to take that city, they will.
I'm ok with doing this, but were I kaz, I'd just fill up my land then take a nice city from us.
They're going to try to plant one there anyway...
Why 1N of the wheat and not 1NE?
There is a hilll to the SE of that tile. so they could march units up.
How? How are Kaz going to take that city? It's not impossible, but if we have 2 LB, 3 axes 2 spears in there, short term what do they need to take it? Something like 5-7 cats and 10 HA. No way they can get that in the space of 10 turns.
Longer term? When they get maces? They have to walk up next to the city. Then we catapult them, wipe out the strong units with Eles, then flank all the catapults with HA.
We have greater production, more cities and more fpt, whereas Kaz are boxed in with 6 cities. I'm not worried about Kaz trying to take that city. The biggest problem would be if Cav joined them in war and we got 2v1'd but alot then depends on tech. We should keep CK on military and get DT a granary, and forge chopped out asa and grow it. We chop out the workers, scout forward with the sentry chariot and push Kaz, take their land and with it their ability to tech, build units and grow. Then when we draw their stack out and smash it we go in for the kill and take all their land.
Would it be worth it to get some Xbows too, or will WE's do the job just fine?
WE are better for killing stacks due to the higher strength; Xbows tend to bounce off HA a little too much for my taste. They are useful to have, ie to place on hills with an lb and have a couple with CD, but not critical. They'd also require that we have machinery, and I don't think that's critical atm. We want Machinery for a couple of maces (they get defense boni, so a couple are worthwhile), to get towards knights and pikes, but also for windmills for CK (so it can reach the happy cap), but that's less important than getting CS, construction and HBR.
I totally agree here! Once we have Eles and Cats, we are fine.
So, are people happy to go with the t108 city and killing axes plan? I think that's the best one to go for...it's effectively exchanging 1 extra turn for Kaz to get spears up for 4 turns on the city, units from CK, and getting the Corn online for DT, and health in IS (we really do need that BTW). Even if Kaz agree to an alliance (lol) we can use it for the gems city, or for the dye city up north (with the 10 forests and the +1 happy from dyes...hmmm, another 4 workers anyone?)
Yeah, sounds like the best plan to me.
If you are talking about the plan outlined in post #19, then yes, that sounds pretty cool!
yes, I'm on board with it.
OK, me and Memphus were discussing a rather drastic problem that could happen. Kaz could head for Music, and culture bomb that front city. This would basically make our city unteneable.
The only defence against this is to either destroy Kazs' city, or culture bomb our city. We have no where that is capable of generating a GA quickly though. TKY might be able tio get one by t130, but that is too late.
So, where do we get a GA from then? Simple: Music
Memphus just checked, and if we really push research, we can make base 200 beakers (with CK on research...) right now, without the eastern cities growing to work the coast, without the lib in IS. This will increase to around 225-230 over the next 3 turns, by my reckoning. We research polytheism (t106) to within 1 beaker of finishing, then the same to Aesthetics (t108). Then we research, Polytheism, Aesthetics and Lit, 1 turn apeice, and overflow onto Music, which we should be able to research by t113 (ie in 7 turns). Kaz won't see what we are doing until t109, when we get polytheism, and so will only have 4 turns to research Music, which is impossible for them unless they have already started.
The costs are multiple, we are taking CK off unit production and the Moia will be delayed (but FC will be growing...), JD might get a little stunted as well. If we lose it, well, Kaz can bomb us and we can't counter bomb, so we'd likely lose the wheat city.
That said, Kaz just started research after saving, and I don't think they have enough to be researching Music now. memphus thinks that one team is getting Fued, one Machinery and the other paper, which makes sense IMO, especially as we are so awful at tech and don't have any prerequisites for Music...
I think we need to discuss this idea, and fairly quickly, as we need to start it next turn, but we also need to get Saturn on board to fund us for 3 turns or so.
Is defending against a GA more important than defending against a military assault with maces or elephants?
What would saturn get out of doing this? A strong ally is good, but they need something tangible, cause eventually a strong ally will become the stronger team in a 1-1 - let them build the GLib and parthenon?
The GA is integral to defending against any military assault; if Kaz culture bomb their city, they will be able to raod up to our city, bombard down the defences, catapult the defender units and wipe out the city without us attacking their stack.
I don't think we can defend the wheat city against such a culture bomb tbh. We would have to relegate it to a speedbump and know that it is a sacrifical city that we are not going to be able to hold against Kaz if they play competently. Which can be used to an advantage tactically, but still isn't as good as bombing them first and making their position unteneable.
The GL has already been built, and Saturn has no production capability. I would offer them settlers (2) workers (4) and escouts (some HA and LB) if they do this. We'll be able to afford IS to build them for Saturn if we do get to Music first.
I'm not any sort of expert on culture bombs - so can the more experienced multi-player hands weigh in on the likelihood of Kaz bombing us? 75% likely, 20% likely, you are surprised it hasn't happened already?
can we defend against it by just adding an artist?
Literature is worth it anyway, for Heroic Epic, though it may be early to build it.
Polytheism and aesthetics? eh.
Music is a pre-req for nationalism, so that's worth it in itself. But it is a lot of research not going to HBR and CS...
100% likely. Indiansmoke is a ladder player, he knows the ropes. Kaz have Literature, and no one else has Aesthetics. It's a lock...
No. Not with the cities so close together.
I agree, I would rather play the simple game and get HBR, CS, and cram some units down Kazs' throat. Unfortunate fact is, we lose if we do that...
Can we project based on the borders of their city they just planted where the borders will end up once they bomb us?
yup and it is bad.....all around the new city.
they get control of the tile SE of TKY
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