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Trojan Horse: Ninja Style

Discussion in 'Team SANCTA' started by Krill, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    A few questions:

    1) Will we be able to take them out?

    We'll have what... 9 elephants, 9 HA, 6 or 7 cats, the rest swords and axes and longbows? Something like that?


    It'll take 3 or 4 turns for the last unit to get down there, so we'll be able to relaunch in 10-15 turns, which will give them what... 4 more maces, 2 more cats and a couple more horse archers? Some crossbows for city defense, probably.

    I'm not convinced that stack would take out Kaz completely, but it would be interesting.

    2) Does doing this hose us in the long run? We aren't getting a lot of infrastructure done, and we have a lot of sites to fill in still. I'm mainly worried about Cav teching to optics and landing stacks wherever the hell they want, since so many of our cities are coastal.

    We will still have no religion, no markets, few libraries, won't have heroic epic up - plus, massive weariness and/or a huge army.

    3) Won't Cav attack us while we are busy with Kaz?

    Not saying we shouldn't do this - it's an interesting idea :)
     
  2. IamJohn

    IamJohn (was)?

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    I have the same concerns as AT. IMO we should see if we can do enough to get Kaz stuck with trying to attack, but not really accomplishing anything, and us still teching. Of course the danger would us simply doing the worst of both worlds if we try to do both. We really need to pick one strategy and run with it.

    Remember also that tech trading will most likely not allow us to get back up to par techwise if we fall behind- Cav/MS have been fairly unwilling to give us anything, and imo it's only going to get worse, especially if our power level gets to much higher then them.
     
  3. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Well, what we would have would depend on when we started the GA. But there are alot of beneficial side effects:

    1. IS grows to size 12 next turn, at the health cap, and we can get it to grow just a few food shy of growing then go max hammers: We should be able to get the HE by t125 at the absolute latest if we start the GA by t120; it is feasible to get the HE by t120 I think. The GA pushes IS up to 46 hpt, so every turn after the HE is finnished IS is capable of 1 turn WE.

    2. JD is capable of 23 hpt in the GA; so for the 8 turns of the GA, it accumulates 184 hammers; just 16 hammers shy of completingthe palace, so it's most likely that for the last few turns of the GA we'll be in Bureaucracy with the palace in JD.

    3. The GA doubles the gpp from the scientists in OO, so the GA speeds up the aquisition time for the academy in JD. A riskier element is also trying for a GS in IS, where we may get a GM (cash bomb in Saturn?) or a GE (Settle under academy, rush Hagia Sophia or Sistene) or the GS for the academy in JD, then use the GS out of OO for a second academy or settle for another 1.75 hammers and 16.75 beakers (immediately) in JD (27 after Oxford).

    We already have libs down in IS, FC, JD and OO, with another one coming online soon in GM, which are our current and future major commerce producers. We don't need a religion, we have enough happyness atm, but if we wanted we could use the GA to swap to Org Rel to push out a few missonaries in either Confucianism or Judaism. We don;t need markets because Saturn is paying our expenses while we tech; we only need the science multipliers. We have no WW at as we have lost 1 unit in Kaz culture, and if that is bad then we just have to use PS to cut it in half anyway.

    I agree that we need the coastal city sites filling in asap, so we need to find a couple of military units (preferably LB but axes will likely have to suffice) 4 workers and 3 settlers. The best place to get the workers and settlers is from CK, and possibly IS.

    If we decided that we did want to only pen Kaz in and not go for the kill, instead of overflowing into a unit after each slave we could overflow into a building for instance, and we'd quickly get the required buildings in TKY and DT. Along with the boosted tech we'd be recieving...

    TBH I'm not sure if we can actually pull this off without getting peace with Kaz; right now we are kinda pushed dealing with a Kaz attack; we need to get Eles online asap, alonf with a handful of cats. However, while we can get them by simply chopping all of the forests, that'll take time, so Kaz may have an opputunity to go for TKY (not Zero though). In a strategic sense, TKY doesn't matter while we have Zero, so if Kaz were to go for TKY it would be folly, but it would cost us alot to defend both TKY and Zero.

    But OTOH, Kaz are slaving hard, and are not growing all that much, so long term they are weaklings; MS just overtook them in score, and I'm certain now that MS are atleast equal to Kaz in GNP, and stronger in MFG and Crop yield. They aren't going to be able to match us if we do this plan; we could be ready to roll by t130 at the latest IMO. Once we raze the front city, there is no need to culture bomb Zero, and we may end up splitting Kazs' new front cities, making it much easier to attack them, especially after we would have just destroyed their army. And they will have been slaving them selves into the ground to build the army; they aren't going to be able to rebuild it, even with drafting.

    As memphus said, the next few turns are the difficult ones that make or break us. If we get peace the problem goes away. If Kaz go for Zero, teh problem will be suspended for long enough for us to get some real defenses online. The only thing that HAS to be done now is getting the two granaries and hooking up the food instead of chopping everything in sight. That's the risky bit.
     
  4. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    nods

    Oh - one thing I just thought of... if we do get peace and promise not to culture bomb TKY and Zero, they need to promise not to culture bomb their city in the area.
     
  5. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    That city will be gone before they could get a GA to do it :evil:
     
  6. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    They could get a GA in 7 turns with just three artists, if they want.
     
  7. Memphus

    Memphus Chieftain

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    they wuld have to switch to caste. they love slavery too much

    they have already poped a GS, and must be close to a second if not 3rd one.
     
  8. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    They got the GL; no way they can outrace it to their second GP, so they need 300 gpp to get an artist, so they need 50 Artist turns to get a GA. They don't have drama, so they need to use Caste to get it out asap, so caste = no slavery, or get drama (2 turns), get a theatre (3-4 turns) then 25 turns for the GA.

    Kaz are screwed either way.
     
  9. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    good point about the GLib and caste - still. Say they do get drama and run 2 artists in their city with the GLib - they get their 3rd great person in 11 turns with a slightly lower than 50% likelihood of it being a GA.

    Or, they get peace and go into caste and run 2 or 3 artists.

    It's not likely, but then, we weren't likely to win that trireme battle. I'd really hate for us to launch a huge attack and have a huge culture bomb take hold.
     
  10. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    True, they could get lucky like that. OTOH, Kaz completed teh GL t101, so needed 198 gpp to get the second GS. They are due the GS next turn. They'll never have the chance to get a GA on the cheap that way, and will at best get a 3/7 shot at a GA in the city with the GL, most likely less, due around t124 at the absolute earliest.
     
  11. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    I'm just saying that if we can't bomb there, we should arrange it so they can't bomb there...
     
  12. IamJohn

    IamJohn (was)?

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    I don't think it's worth it if it lessens the chance of them agreeing to peace.
     
  13. Krill

    Krill Chieftain

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    Yup, razing the kaz city is high up on the list of priorities. I'm trying to figure out a way that allows us to both bomb Zero and get the golden age. I think I've come up with something...intriguing, but we need peace to pull it off, so it's only a pipe dream IMO.

    I'm not sure if anything we do now is going to affect Kazs' position RE: peace. If they agree to peace now, then we need to keep an eye on the soldiers numbers, because Kaz might declare once the 10 turns are up, in which case we need to be ready to crush anything they have, and if they refuse peace and move up we can't get the granaries early, instead having to get some more units. But that would fit in nicely with a golden age from a GP from IS or CK, and using the artist to bomb with.
     

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