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Trump on Trial

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Gori the Grey, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Instead of just continuing our discussion in "Clown Car" and "Holy Hell" and "Is Donald Trump Done For?" should we have a separate thread for our reactions/reflections on Trump's impeachment trail in the Senate?

    I don't have much to kick us off with, because I haven't been near a TV, mostly. I saw a little of McConnell's opening speech, and the little I saw made me sick to my stomach. Really, you're boasting of using rules agreed to 100-0 . . . twenty years ago? Wonder why there wasn't any opportunity for this senate to come to an agreement on rules for the conduct of this impeachment?

    And then . . . not actually observing those rules, even, i.e. three days down to two.
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Regardless of how one might feel about it (at this point I'm pretty solidly in apathy from coverage fatigue), for practical purposes the trial itself is DoA absent some major new information. Senate isn't going to impeach and we've known that since months ago.

    It's a loss for decent political process as a whole that this has been known to all sides as a farce from the start (though with disagreement as to why it's a farce) and yet it's still a dominant consideration/tiresome news cycle focus.
     
  3. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Yeah, I think the House impeachment managers should make their case to the populace at large, rather than the senators. Talk past the senators. It's true there's no small percentage of the electorate who is closed to their arguments, but that's a different percentage than the breakdown of the senate. So at least you go on record for posterity saying that Republican senators had their chance to say whether they thought withholding US taxpayer dollars to pressure a foreign government to harm a domestic political opponent's campaign is all well and good. And whether issuing a blanket ban on members of the executive branch complying with subpoenas is all well and good.

    I think House Impeachment managers should use the word "kickback," Trump withheld US taxpayer's money in an attempt to get a kickback from Ukraine. I think that could get through to the people who just haven't tuned in to the specifics prior to this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
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  4. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Maybe if you merge done for with the holy hell threads this might have some staying power, but this portion of the impeachment will be the lamest. We know that GOP efforts will be geared to acquittal as fast as possible, the only redeeming possibility is for the electorate to vote them out en masse and I have my doubts the American population is anywhere near redeemable.
     
  5. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Yeah, if it's not worth it's own thread, the mods can shut it down. This represents such a distinct stage of the proceedings that I thought it might merit its own tread.
     
  6. Commodore

    Commodore Deity

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    Small correction: Trump has already been impeached by the House. The Senate will now decide whether or not to remove him from office.

    So because people don't vote the way you want they are irredeemables? This kind of sentiment makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.
     
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  7. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Deity

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    Well Schumer and the Dems have just summoned all the information on burisma and any documents provided to The WH by Giuliani and the senate is taking a 15 min. break
    As well as many other documents relating to any discussions that mention both Joe and Hunter Biden
    So trump will get to talk past the senate to the populace at large
    should be quite a show if they suceeed and i can not wait for their release
    The dems just made the Bidens central to the case against Trump and to his defence
    :popcorn:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  8. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    One aspect of this I've not seen explored as heavily as expected is the attempt at "we already had some evidence of wrongdoing" WRT Biden. Trump targeted Biden specifically, not Warren or Sanders for example, and there was some shaky stuff going on there with the Bidens. We all know this is OVERLY convenient to Trump (sort of, Biden is a crappy candidate even compared to the rest of the field), but it's the kind of thing sympathetic senators would buy and does carry some coherent reasoning for actions.

    I'm assuming the Trump administration doesn't have much to support that defense or they'd have played that angle emphatically. But it's the kind of thing where I'd expect one side or the other to emphasize it more heavily, depending on who finds the facts more convenient.
     
  9. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Because they vote out of nothing but fear and malice from my PoV. Consideirng the long history of it in the US it is very hard to redeem the good qualities from the ******. I refer you to MLK since it was his day yesterday about how slow and horrible this country has been to live up to its own ideals.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/02/letter-from-a-birmingham-jail/552461/

    We really haven't changed much since then. We are still redlining, we still systematically discriminate, the south (and now the midwest) is still trying to repress voting.
     
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  10. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    The senate will aquit Trump and toss the impeachment out the window.
    I thought that thread was a sort of a “Orange Man Did Something Bad and Is Gonna Get Pwned!” mega thread :crazyeye:.
     
  11. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I have not been impressed with Trump's lawyers today. Not only did they openly lie, they only offered criticism of the House and refused to address the amendments offered.
     
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  12. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    Nah its fine, Commodore
    Most of Republicans are decent people, it was the same with the re-election of GWBush, its just going to be another painful lesson.
     
  13. amadeus

    amadeus Bring back the Civ2 theme!

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    The impeachment is really an attempt to overturn the 2016 election and a political circus, so if McConnell et al. decide to make it into their own circus for the GOP’s benefit, I can’t help but support it.

    Full disclosure: have not watched a minute of the Senate proceedings yet, just my feeling about the whole thing as it stands now.
     
  14. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Deity

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    Apparently its not their job to advise the senate on what they should do and they have a different purpose than satisifying your wishes
    :popcorn:
     
  15. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Yes, they are speaking to an audience of one.
     
  16. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Deity

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    yes and the whole world listens... :mischief:
    more should pay attenion when witnesses are discussed by the senate in a couple of days... I will
    :popcorn:
     
  17. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    They were going to vote to stretch the trial out to 3 shorter days instead of 2 longer days today. Basically, the GOP leadership thought they could stand 12 hours of testimony until they actually had to sit through 2 hours of it and then cried uncle. I have not seen if this rule change has passed or not but it was expected to.

    McConnell also agreed to submit House evidence to the Senate trial as a block - in other words they don't have to vote on each piece. But I also read something about a 'if there are no objections' clause that would be applied to admission of evidence. That clause was mentioned on-screen but none of the talking heads on News Hour actually elaborated on it so I don't know what, if anything, it means.

    The White House's lawyers whined today that Trump wasn't allowed to call witnesses or offer evidence in the House trial. What actually happened was that he refused to have anything to do with the process and now is using his own non-participation as evidence that the deck has been stacked against him. This has also been a talking point of every GOP member who's been in front of a camera over the last few weeks which isn't surprising given the level of coordination between the White House and GOP congressional members and staff on this issue. They've coordinated on this better than basically any legislative initiatives over the last 3 years.
     
  18. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    I thought the aid was with held to compel Zelensky to investigate interference in the 2016 election. If it was for a kick back that would qualify for impeachment in my book.
     
  19. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    They didn't care if Zelensky did any investigation. All they wanted was a press conference to announce an investigation so they could use it to attack Biden with. This has all come out through discovery and testimony. The Republicans do not deny the evidence, they merely claim it wasn't bad enough to be impeachable. They also say Trump did nothing wrong, which is different from disputing the evidence.
     
  20. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Asking Zelensky to publicly announce an investigation into the Bidens was stupid, but that may have been Trump trying to trap him into actually doing something with a public commitment. I dont believe Trump didn't care about Ukrainian interference, they nailed his buddy Manafort. I just heard the trial resumes tomorrow at 1 pm est or a little under 12 hours. But I'd double check that.
     

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