Trump Scandal Thread (Past, Present, and Future)

[Verbose]

Nope:

Jeez... So the US really did go for the thing of electing a time-limited king after all? Without even specifying it, he can by fiat waive effectively all US law like that. It could be the definition of privilege, "private law".

Does a later US president have the power to rescind pardons like that, or is the principle that a full pardon is inviolate supposed to be set in stone?

 

[Zardnaar]

Jeez... So the US really did go for the thing of electing a time-limited king after all? Without even specifying it, he can by fiat waive effectively all US law like that. It could be the definition of privilege, "private law".

Does a later US president have the power to rescind pardons like that, or is the principle that a full pardon is inviolate supposed to be set in stone?

Theoretically he can pardon himself and a future president can't revoke a pardon.

 

[mitsho]

Well, the new president can order the police to arrest the old president and then pardon himself, the officers and all the prison wardens for doing that. ;-)

The fact that we are even debating that stuff means that we went from a "what the law (constitution) intends" to a "what the law says" kind of situation. And that's the scary thing here. Because it is just obvious that you shouldn't be able to pardon yourself and that you shouldn't give out blanket pardons for persons as Trump intends to for his entourage. That's just not how the concept of pardoning works.

(Blanket pardons for a specific crime, i.e. vietnam war draft dodgers are different)

 

[Verbose]

Well, the new president can order the police to arrest the old president and then pardon himself, the officers and all the prison wardens for doing that. ;-)

The fact that we are even debating that stuff means that we went from a "what the law (constitution) intends" to a "what the law says" kind of situation. And that's the scary thing here. Because it is just obvious that you shouldn't be able to pardon yourself and that you shouldn't give out blanket pardons for persons as Trump intends to for his entourage. That's just not how the concept of pardoning works.

(Blanket pardons for a specific crime, i.e. vietnam war draft dodgers are different)

Yes. Time will tell, but we are fortunate in seeing how a determined attempt to short-curcuit US democracy and actually steal an election could be done this time. It is fortunate Trump is such a deeply incomplete and incompetent human being, there just isn't the will and ability to really go through with it. At best the experience might offer the US a form of inoculation against something like it, if later tried in serious. Otoh if this was a kind of training-wheel exercise, for the more determined it might as well have been a learning experience for next time – at which point they might be led by someone more clever, and more determined, than Trump.

Was this the " failed Beer Hall putsch" moment of US history, just setting up for the next round, or was it a watershed moment that headed off any future such possibilities?

 

[AmazonQueen]

Theoretically he can pardon himself and a future president can't revoke a pardon.

Debateable.
US legal experts are divided on if such a pardon would be valid and it would have to be tested in court.
If the SC upheld that he can't be a judge in his own case the pardon wouldn't be valid.

 

[Hrothbern]

Theoretically he can pardon himself and a future president can't revoke a pardon.

In that case the POTUS is a strongman with bigger powers than Putin or Erdogan.
Just pardon anything illegal you do as POTUS until...
The first target for Biden would be to get 9 Dem judges in the SC, then change some parts of the constitution in similar ways, + some other "improvements" and finalise as last act a constitution change where a POTUS can no longer pardon himself or people who received illegal orders by him.

 

[Kyriakos]

I am certainly against laws about official impunity (more so in politics).
That said, in the current US, if you take away all pardons of (eg) the presidential team, you are likely to end with endless procedures to sue.
Still, it may be a lot more preferable to outright granting immunity to those in power.

 

[FriendlyFire]

500K dead by April 2021 seems low now

More Than 2,000 People a Day Are Dying and Trump is Still Urging States to Open Up
“They’ve used the pandemic and the phony fake ballots, the mail-in ballots, they used that to sabotage a country.”
The grim milestones of the past week made Trump’s routine denial and distortion of the pandemic all the more striking. He again took credit for the vaccines he claimed it would have taken another administration five years to develop.

https://www.motherjones.com/coronavirus-updates/2020/12/trump-georgia-rally-covid-reopen-vaccine/

 

[Birdjaguar]

More than 200 companies, special-interest groups and foreign governments patronized Mr. Trump’s properties during his presidency while reaping benefits from him and his administration. Sixty of them spent $12 million at his properties during the first two years he was in office.

The Trump family business has received millions of dollars in payments by the Secret Service, the State Department and the United States military to Trump properties around the country and the world. The president has visited his properties on at least 417 days since taking office, at times with world leaders. And he and his affiliated political committees spent more than $6.5 million in campaign funds at his hotels and other businesses since 2017, including a million-dollar final burst in the weeks before the election last month.

 

[Drewcifer]

I am under the impression that once a person has been pardoned they can no longer take the 5th regarding the things they were pardoned for because testimony will no longer incriminate them. If that is the case Trump needs to be careful. The best irony would be if Trump pardoned himself and all his inner circle, and then his self pardon was thrown out by the Supreme Court and all his associates who were pardoned were then compelled to testify against him.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

A self pardon would put the President above the law. I don't think it is likely that such a situation would hold up even with SCOTUS.

(Loud belch)
Kavanaugh: Hold my beer.
But don't drink it, gonna boof the rest later.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Hunter Biden get 1 Mil from Ukraine HUGE scandle
Kushner get 1 Billion from Qatar Silence

Congressional Democrats Are Now Investigating Whether Kushner Used Trump to Get Himself a Billion-Dollar Qatari Bailout

Proving that the thicket of congressional and law enforcement investigations circling around outgoing President Donald Trump’s family will not end with his White House term, Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden and Rep. Joaquin Castro opened up a new probe on Wednesday focusing on Jared Kushner’s potentially compromising dealings with Qatar and other Middle Eastern governments.

The latest investigation looks into whether Kushner pushed his father-in-law Trump to support a Qatari blockade while Kushner Companies sought a more than billion-dollar bailout from officials from that and other Middle Eastern governments.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...-get-himself-a-billion-dollar-qatari-bailout/

 

[Hamid.H]

Discussions revealed that Trump is moving towards pardoning his kids and Giuliani. The exact wording of such pardons would be critical and could lead to challenges. Blanket pardons are mostly untested territory.

trump is witnessing the walls slowly closing in. hes preparing for a contingent election. hes already gutted most of the obama-era hold overs in the top cabinet positions and the upper brass has all but been replaced by loyalists. were still under a state of emergency which awards the president martial powers; above the law. the nation guard has been dispatched to all major metropolises. then imagine being in trumps position and witnessing unprecedented corruption going unchecked. youre surrounded by spineless bureaucrats and weak, cowardly democrat career politicians. then realizing - you only live once and the full might of the united states forces is at your finger tips with over 75 million hardened supporters ready to back you and all you have to do is reach out and take it; cross the rubicon.

5 more days

now ask yourself what would a megalomaniac do?

 

[Gori the Grey]

. . . now think of something worse than that . . .

and that's what Trump will do.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Bank Fraud and Tax fraud

Manhattan D.A. Intensifies Investigation of Trump
Prosecutors have recently interviewed employees of President Trump’s lender and insurance brokerage, in the latest indication that he still faces the potential threat of criminal charges once he leaves office.
Mr. Vance’s office has stepped up its efforts, issuing new subpoenas and questioning witnesses, including some before a grand jury, according to the people with knowledge of the matter, who requested anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the investigation. The grand jury appears to be serving an investigative function, allowing prosecutors to authenticate documents and pursue other leads, rather than considering any charges.

“It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed among the wealthiest people in Forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes,” he said in testimony before the House Oversight Committee.

Mr. Vance’s office had subpoenaed the Trump Organization for records related to tax write-offs on millions of dollars in consulting fees, some of which appear to have gone to the president’s daughter Ivanka Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/11/nyregion/trump-taxes-cy-vance.html

 

[Colonel]

In that case the POTUS is a strongman with bigger powers than Putin or Erdogan.
Just pardon anything illegal you do as POTUS until...
The first target for Biden would be to get 9 Dem judges in the SC, then change some parts of the constitution in similar ways, + some other "improvements" and finalise as last act a constitution change where a POTUS can no longer pardon himself or people who received illegal orders by him.

What you've described isn't conceivable in the current climate. Even with a majority in the house & Senate, even with a packed court. A constitutional amendment process much less multiple amendments require majorities in 3/4ths of the states which is doubtful you could get 3/4ths to agree on anything. President Trump is an anomaly and although I agree some safeguards need to be put in place to prevent the chaos of another Trump in the future I don't believe upending the system is necessarily the right aim for the new President.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Gaslight
Obstruct <---- we are here now
Project <---- we are here now

Genetic material left behind on dress ? Why someone tell the GOP

Trump Is 'Desperate' to Avoid Rape Accuser E. Jean Carroll in Court

The Thursday motion to halt the court’s proceedings will delay the discovery process in the case, according to Bloomberg. Lawyers for Carroll have sought to obtain a DNA sample from Trump, which they hope to match to genetic material left on a dress that Carroll says she was wearing when Trump allegedly raped her.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/akd...to-avoid-rape-accuser-e-jean-carroll-in-court

 

[Bugfatty300]

Gaslight
Obstruct <---- we are here now
Project <---- we are here now

Genetic material left behind on dress ? Why someone tell the GOP

I remember when a certain fouled dress that resulted from consensual sex was such a massive deal to this criminal organization.

 

[Lexicus]

trump is witnessing the walls slowly closing in. hes preparing for a contingent election. hes already gutted most of the obama-era hold overs in the top cabinet positions and the upper brass has all but been replaced by loyalists. were still under a state of emergency which awards the president martial powers; above the law. the nation guard has been dispatched to all major metropolises. then imagine being in trumps position and witnessing unprecedented corruption going unchecked. youre surrounded by spineless bureaucrats and weak, cowardly democrat career politicians. then realizing - you only live once and the full might of the united states forces is at your finger tips with over 75 million hardened supporters ready to back you and all you have to do is reach out and take it; cross the rubicon.

5 more days

now ask yourself what would a megalomaniac do?

cope

 

[Ajidica]

Jeez... So the US really did go for the thing of electing a time-limited king after all? Without even specifying it, he can by fiat waive effectively all US law like that. It could be the definition of privilege, "private law".

Does a later US president have the power to rescind pardons like that, or is the principle that a full pardon is inviolate supposed to be set in stone?

It is worth remember that a large number of colonial politicians didn't have any objection to the idea of a King, but rather that King George was not acting as a King was supposed to act. It wouldn't be wrong to say that some envisioned the President as being an elected King.