1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Trump Steps in it Again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Berzerker, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    14,320
    Location:
    Topeka, Kansas
    I'm sure anyone paying attention to the news has heard of Trump's latest sin, he called Haiti and African countries (some?) s***holes. This was in the context of immigration reform so Trump was talking about 3rd world sources of emigrants. Not surprisingly this has launched another flurry of criticism as the outraged are chiming in to call Trump a racist. Reporter April Ryan (?) rhetorically shouted at him 'are you a racist?'

    Aside from the continuing disconnect between people calling this racist while denying race even exists, I think this shows another double standard - comedians regularly refer to some US states as dumps, etc. Mississippi usually takes the 'honor' of being America's anal orifice (I'm trying to think of more family friendly terms) but Alabama recently tried to outdo it with the Roy Moore show.

    Even before that South Park singled Alabama out as America's derriere as the land of drunken, wife beating bowlers. Course Mississippi Man doesn't roll off the tongue quite like Alabama Man, but either can be mocked without being racist. When Obama criticized the Bible thumping, gun clingers was he being racist? Course not, he was identifying a 'problem' unrelated to race. The fact he was talking about mostly white people doesn't matter.

    Trump 'asked' why cant we have more Norwegians instead of Haitians. Well, the answer is obvious, Norwegians probably consider the USA a butt hole. They're near the top in many stats used to measure development and I wouldn't be surprised if many Norwegians feel proud of that and look down on the rest of us to some extent, and I dont have a problem with that. They have a nice country, sort of... If you like mountains and cold.

    Is it racist to refer to underdeveloped countries as '3rd world'? Isn't that just a euphemism for Trump's indictment of Haiti? Trump apparently included Honduras but it seems to me it wouldn't matter if Haiti was mostly Asian, Hispanic, Caucasian, or any other 'race'. Of course there's all sorts of reasons why Haiti is not exactly a popular vacation spot, lack of resources, earthquakes and hurricanes, disease, poverty, but what do these have to do with race?

    Aren't Trump's accusers assuming its about race and isn't that just a bit racist? If Haiti was 'white' would Trump welcome them in with open arms? I dont think so... Can overly narcissistic people even be racist? They're self-absorbed, its all about them, not race, not even their own race. Hell, he's a germaphobe! He doesn't wanna be near anyone other than the beautiful women he cant help but sexually assault.

    Anyway, if I lived in one of those 3rd world countries I dont know how I'd feel. I'd look around at the relatively unspoiled environment with more or less intact natural resources and smile. To me NYC is a butt hole, no offense New Yorkers... But I tend to prefer nature to the unwashed masses, no offense unwashed masses. I spent plenty of time living the big city life and its okay I guess, but I dont even want neighbors now.

    Is '3rd world' a racist euphemism for Trump's choice of words? Seems to me the world's septic tank is North Korea, but that has nothing to do with race...

    edit: here's a discussion on the topic

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...2c6e4b0720dc4c6933c?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  2. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,956
    Location:
    The cutest of cephalopods
    Meh. Very lazy bait this.

    That the social construct of racism has little to do with evidence of the existence (or not) of biological races is the point. The critics aren't contradicting themselves, they're pointing to one of the flaws.
     
    Elhoim, Lexicus and Perfection like this.
  3. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2004
    Messages:
    9,324
    Location:
    Skaville UK Reputation: 1
    Drumpfyboi was correct either way.
     
  4. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,677
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    Of course there's a different standard of what is acceptable for a comedian to say vs. what is acceptable for a president to say. That should be blindingly obvious.

    Of course, I'm not a big fan of lazily trashing the south for cheap yuks.
     
  5. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,041
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    He just doesn't realize Norway is a better country than the U.S., there is no reason at all for any of them to come here. I would move to Norway if I could.

    But Trump shouldn't despair. We do get some white people who come here. Like Celine Dion and Piers Morgan. And we exported Meghan Markle.
     
  6. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,107
    Location:
    Philippines
    :nono: Immigrants come; emigrants go.

    :confused: I've never heard anyone claim race does not exist [unless you're referring to geneticists pointing out there is no "race gene"].

    "All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia." ... W.C. Field's headstone
    "Every country has a city they make fun of. Here, everyone makes fun of Cleveland. In Russia, the city everyone makes fun of is Cleveland." ...Yakov Smirnoff.
    "Cleveland is Cincinnati without the glitter."
    "Why would anyone claim to be from New Jersey if they weren't." ...Leonard Hoffsteader
    "My ancestors come from Norway. They crossed oceans and mountains and plains to come to a land that is just as cold as where they started out from. 'Minnesota' is the native American word for '*$#@&!, it is cold!'"

    He criticized no one. He was warning his backers to expect a shift to the right because, in times of economic crisis, people "tend to cling to their Bibles and guns."

    3rd World refers to developing nations. It includes the UAE, Singapore, & South Africa.
    Trump called Haiti a 'latrine'. There's a difference.

    He didn't mention San Marino, Montenegro, Moldovia, Kyrgyz Republic, and Bhutan -- all of which are poorer than Haiti, all of which are mostly white or Asian.

    Yes, Trump is Exhibit 1: While running, he called Muslims terrorists, Mexicans murderers and rapists, etc. He's lately tried not to be quite so overt, but it slips out over and over again, e.g. white supremacists are "some very nice people."

    Yeah, but try and get a baloney sandwich or a decent slice of pepperoni. It took me three years to find a taco. :gripe:
     
  7. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    26,698
    San Marino (with a per capita income of $60,000) is poorer than Haiti?

    I suppose at $2 billion its total GDP is indeed less than the $7 billion of Haiti.

    That's not much of a comparison, though, given its 33,000 population against 11 million. I know which one I'd rather live in.
     
    Oerdin likes this.
  8. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,041
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Haiti is, how do I put this delicately, a place I would never want to live in a million years. Perhaps the French deserved what happened to them, they had no right keeping slaves, but it was still pretty brutal. Anyways, Dominican Republic has a problem with Haitian immigrants, that's how bad it is in Haiti.
     
  9. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    14,320
    Location:
    Topeka, Kansas
    :lol:

    But people leaving Haiti are emigrants, that makes Haiti a source...or something like that. They're immigrants to their new home and neighbors.

    Sounds like a criticism to me

    How many immigrants do we have from those countries?

    I'd have to see the quote wrt Muslims, but he didn't call Mexicans rapists, he said Mexico wasn't sending their best, they were instead sending rapists, etc. Yes it was still a generalization but his point being criminals are crossing the border. As for the last one, he was talking about people protesting the removal of statues. The fact some of them were supremacists doesn't change the fact "Antifa" showed up to "save lives" during a brawl they started. I know the media has a habit of showing the neo-Nazis marching at night with tiki torches while Trump says there were good people on both sides, but he wasn't talking about the tiki torch parade. Thats why the charge of 'fake news' works...

    Hehe, thats another sign of our decadence... And we're exporting our culture :(
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    29,878
    Location:
    Banned at 3 safe space for nazis sites
    You're late Berzerker. This has already been beaten mostly to death in a number of the regular political threads.
     
  11. Berzerker

    Berzerker Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    14,320
    Location:
    Topeka, Kansas
    Well, nobody's perfect... :) But the reason comedians get yucks with jokes like that is because they're just saying what other people think. How did you react to Alabamans nearly sending Moore to the Senate? I was thinking what is wrong with Alabama. Hell, someone wrote a book about whats wrong with my state. I think Trump's comments were in a private meeting which Senator Durbin (D-ILL) publicized, if he was so concerned with how Trump's words would hurt the country why did he tell everyone? Politics...

    :( I was wondering why I didn't see a thread on it
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    49,880
    Location:
    Thessalonike, The Byzantine Empire
    Nitpicking: 'euphemism' has to be (nominally) something positive. It means using a positive term, when you mean something negative, eg 'cape of good hope' (cause ships were usually sunk there), or 'hospitable sea', again when ships are lost there. '3rd world' is (of course) never meant positively. It is indeed a less offensive term for what Trump used, but still utterly connoting something terrible.
     
  13. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    5,107
    Location:
    Philippines
    You're right, Borachio. I didn't think this through. I used GDP rather that GDP/capita. :o
     
  14. Mechanicalsalvation

    Mechanicalsalvation -

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    7,034
    Location:
    -
    Nope. 3rd world refers to non-aligned 3rd countries as opposed to the "West" and "Communist block".
    If the meaning has shifted to economic criteria then I can assure you that Singapore is more developed with better standards of living then most of the US and Western world.

    Haiti is indeed likely a terrible place with extremly high crime which makes immigration from there very risky.

    While San Marino is one of the richest places in Europe Moldova is poorest country but itsnt poorer than Haiti. I dont know about the rest but you are likely mistaken in all of them as well when it comes to economic development.
    And the migration from most or any of these is likely be less problematic than from Haiti...
     
  15. Katie88

    Katie88 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Female
    Not one of those countries is poorer than Haiti, and the closest in terms of wealth, Kyrgyzstan, is twice as rich as Haiti. They all also have a far superior Human Development Index.

    I suspect it was an off-the-cuff remark, but in a way it's classic Trump. He said something that outraged the media and his opponents, but that his supporters and, crucially, most people agreed with.

    Moreover, it frames the question of immigration in a different way, in terms of how we 'benefit' by letting in immigrants from terrible places. The answer to which is, of course, that we don't.
     
    Virote_Considon and Oerdin like this.
  16. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    17,235
    Location:
    Sydney
    Haitai got Screwed by the French whom saddled it with the debt of Napelons campagin to retake it by force and ironicly America backed the French claim it was pretty much Fed from the start because of this.
    Most of the immigrants from Africa have degress, I think something like 42% of them in effect the US is brain drainning Africa with its higher wages and living conditions

    As for S-hole countries, lets just say that the US is ok with flushing blood and money down the drain in Afghanistan and I consider that a H-hole country
     
  17. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Messages:
    17,235
    Location:
    Sydney
    You did Elect Sam Brownback TWICE.
    Great book, about how people of Kansas voted on cultural issues, poor democrat was canvasing votes and Republican voter wont consider it because of Abortion and immigration. Thats how you got brownback and ended up urinating on the electrical fence twice. At least it didnt take a third time those idiots were calling for more tax cuts because the experiment wasnt working.
     
  18. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,402
    Location:
    next to George Bush's parents
    I've been to Afghanistan and I don't disagree. It kind of cool to see the Himalaya and Hindu Kush mountain ranges through a plane window, but the most fertile part of the country is in Siberia. Most of it looks like West Texas near El Paso, but steeper.

    J
     
  19. Katie88

    Katie88 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2017
    Messages:
    276
    Gender:
    Female
    The faux outrage about this is particularly amusing because, just a few days ago, the selfsame people were attacking the decision to end TPS for Salvadorians, saying that it was cruel and inhumane to send people back to such a poor, violent and awful country as El Salvador.
     
    Virote_Considon and Oerdin like this.
  20. Wastl

    Wastl Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    203
    That's not what people were complaining about...

    Beyond that, there is a difference between civilians recognizing that specific countries have problems and issues that need to be fixed, and a representative of the state openly insulting said nations.
     
    Birdjaguar likes this.

Share This Page

Ebates: Get Paid to Shop