Trump's Rump

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Birdjaguar, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    :lol:
     
  2. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    There isn't one, like you're saying. I was talking about what a President would need to do to openly usurp the Constitution. To violate the letter and the spirit. I did not think Trump's chances of doing that successfully were very great. As I said repeatedly the danger was that the election would be close enough for Trump to steal it in the courts. That didn't happen, so I wasn't very worried.

    The Republican congress creatures have to follow their voters. Whatever the thoughts of the Republican upper echelons on the matter, there can be no doubt that a substantial amount of the Republican voter coalition would either support a Trump dictatorship or tolerate it as a better alternative to Biden stealing the election with Satanic pedophiles or whatever.
     
  3. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    Boogey boogey boo!
     
  4. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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  5. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I must confess I am seriously divided about this thread.

    Should I ask the mods to relocate it to the

    (a) History forum or;
    (b) the Arts & Entertainment forum?

    its only conceivable relevance to contemporary politics is
    that it demonstrates that the GOP has failed to move on.
     
  6. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    A catastrophic event can and has been used to expand autocratic powers and this is what can bring a state beyond the tipping point where the autocrats are firmly in control. The Reichstag fire was used to massively expand the power of the government using mechanisms of questionable legality. And if you look at the USA, 9/11 was followed by a massive power grab by the government. If the people perceive themselves as under attack, it is much easier for an autocratic strongman to justify the need for those powers, to exploit existing loopholes in the separation of powers, to get new laws passed to create new cracks in the checks and balances, and to delegitimize all opponents as supporters of the enemy. The Unites States might not already by an autocracy, but how many purges of "traitors" is it away from being one?

    However, there is one big problem for the events in January to be abused in such a manner: It was conducted by obvious Trump supporters. Trump could hardly declare them the enemy of the American people and justify the expansion of autocratic powers as necessary to fight them. If the attack could have been orchestrated in such a manner that the invaders were perceived as Democrats, terrorists or some other evil group (in the eyes of sufficiently many people), the chances would have been much better to use some process of questionable legal validity to stay in power. Still not very high, though.
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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  8. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Given that trump is involved with the mafia (which is pretty much a given) it would be the McMafia wouldn't it?
     
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  9. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    McMafia sounds like a mafia family with Ronald McDonald as the head.
     
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  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    This simply returns to me previous objection, though, that all of the scenarios in which Trump seizes extraordinary power assume that he has already liberated himself from constitutional shackles, in effect, that he has already achieved a successful coup. If we assume that this power was always available to Trump without him having to anything in particular except simply avail himseilf of it, then we are suggesting that the coup already happened decades ago, and it is simply the case that nobody has noticed, and this despite the fact that liberals spent the last five years noisily fretting about that very prospect. Doesn't that stretch plausibility?

    The Republicans have to account for voters, but they don't work for them. They work for their donors. It doesn't matter how enthusiastic their electorate is for Trump to enter Washington on an bejewelled elephant as Grand Sultan of America, if the donors don't want that, it doesn't happen, and why would their donors want to concentrate power in the hands of one erratic weirdo when the current system is working out for them pretty well?
     
  11. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yeah, but I never really claimed it didn't. I'm not defending the Mark Milley melodrama or whatever the hell, all I'm arguing is that January 6th ought to be regarded as a serious, if foredoomed, attempt by Trump to usurp the Constitution.

    And also, the "coup happened decades ago" is exactly the argument I've been making: that, over many decades, the executive has gained at the expense of the legislature. I mean, it was President Obama who claimed the right to assassinate US citizens anywhere in the world without any due process or judicial oversight, so you tell me what that means. I don't think "coup" is anywhere near the best framing, decay is more like it.

    Except, this is the exact opposite of what happened in 2016. "The donors," broadly understood, absolutely did not want Trump to win, and the voters disagreed. The voters won. There is, perhaps ironically, a case to be made that the GOP is a better democracy, internally, thant the Democratic Party is, but that's a subject for another time.

    And anyway, I didn't say the Republicans work for their voters, I said they had to follow them. Which again was demonstrated by the party's capitulation to Trump because that was what most of the voters wanted.
     
  12. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Money laundering is likely along with crooked bookkeeping.
     
  13. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    Laugh all you want but it's true.
     
  14. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Well, the reason this thread exists is because of all the unfinished business Trump has left the country to deal with. He left a long trail of garbage, lies, cheating, stealing, corruption and crime that will take years to unravel and undo. He was the worst person in many decades to be president. His election was symptomatic of lots of things that had been building for awhile. His actions a president took corruption, crime and ineptitude to a whole new level. His term in office provided the US the opportunity to see just how ignorant and stupid 74 million of us are.
     
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  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    The funny thing is that, with a few words changed, this:

    actually reads as a decent explanation of why Trump got elected. Americans never want to blame themselves, they are too prideful, and they need a boogie man (immigrants and perhaps WOKE SJWS) without ever facing the real issues that face modern society (global warming is a Chinese hoax!).
     
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  16. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

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    He's an excellent avatar, and not just for other people. But most definitely for them too. In that, I will agree wholeheartedly.

    I mean, look at the ongoing consternation right here -- I'm going to remind you that for his entire term we listened to panting breaths waver, "What's the worst he can do?!?" Well, he showed us. Just like Trump always does and always would. He's going to show you the worst he can do every time. That was it. That was his full-bore toss at insurrection, and stuffing the courts to back him, and sucking up to the military, and everything. What you got is what you saw. Now we're deciding how heavy a stick to hit the stupidest ones with. That's where we're at, despite whatever the rhetoric of the rage click decides is interesting for the hour.
     
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  17. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    I highly doubt it would take decades to undo. Unless your implying his Supreme Court justices are part of his load.
     
  18. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    I said years, not decades and did not mention SCOTUS. The court issues are all about McConnell and not Trump.
     
  19. Joij21

    Joij21 Emperor

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    So what's a few years time anyway? That's hardly anything in the timespan of politics.
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    A few years can make an enormous difference. Look at the negative changes from 2017 to 2021. :p
     

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