Trying for my first 100K victory-any tips?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by splunge the 2nd, Aug 13, 2010.

  1. splunge the 2nd

    splunge the 2nd King

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    I've won by domination, elimination, 20K 1CC, UN, spaceship and now I'm trying for my first 100K. I DL'd a start from the HOF playing as Celts at Monarch and am going along fine. I've fought 2 small wars and have a large amount of space to settle.
    As I understand, the key to winning is spamming cities with cxc spacing and rushing culture producing buildings early. I'm in Republic and just finished a late AA/early MA golden age. I've read that with a huge number of small cities, and playing as an agricultural civ that Feudalism is a good choice but I'm wonderring how I'm going to pay maintenace for all those temples, libraries, colliseums etc out of Republic and am looking for advice on happiness when pop rushing culture in the corrupt towns int he hinterlands.
    Anyone have any pearls of wisdom?
     
  2. Desertsnow

    Desertsnow πr²

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    The Celts are a good choice for culture victories, with their cheap temples and cathedrals and a usually well-timed GA.

    Your Rapid Expansion phase will need to be a truly rapid expansion, as you will need many cities building up all that culture. You'll want to expand quickly and early, so you'll need a good start that will give you a settler factory early in the game. Expansion will also have to be aggressive, and you will need to declare war and capture cities; in fact, for the 100k victory, the usual strategy is to expand to just short of the domination threshold and you will probably be at war most of the time. For 100k games I usually declare my first war when I feel ready, and then play out the rest of the game in a nonoscillating war (NOW) format, with government evolving along the Despotism-Monarchy-Communism line. (Communism is strongly recommended to keep your outlying cities productive; I don't have much experience with Feudalism; I prefer Monarchy over Feudalism as I prefer cash-rushing over pop-rushing, especially when my cities are still small.) If you build Wonders, you will most want the ones that support production or military strength across a continent, though ones that support economy and population growth are good.

    I like close (CxxC) spacing, though some players may think one should be going more for ICS (CxC) spacing (comments are welcome); it spacing seems like a good compromise to me, as I don't like my cities crammed too close together (which is why I don't have much experience with Feudalism, as Feudalism is used usually with ICS). Do experiment to find what works for you, though. Yes, rushing culture buildings early is part of the strategy (the age bonuses do make a difference), but not so much that maintenance costs become an issue--after all you will need to build markets and banks to support your economy, so you can support your culture, and you will also need military strength to capture more cities to build more culture.

    The bottom line is expansion, expansion, expansion.
     
  3. keldr

    keldr Eppur si muove

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    First of all I agree with Desertsnow on the bottom line: expansion, expansion, expansion. It really all comes down to the number of cities, as each city only can produce a certain amount of culture each turn. Because of this I also prefer the CxC spacing for the simple reason that it makes room for more cities.

    With regard to the economy, it depends on the size of the map. On a small map I would have 3-5 core cities with marketplaces and preferably at size 12 or as close as possible. This has been enough for me, since I stop researching after gunpowder and monotheism. After that I set the research and lux sliders to 0%, and start acumulating money for the culture buildings. Of course this only works if you have enough luxury ressources, otherwise you might want to spend a little on the lux slider. And at a certain point in the game this strategy also sometimes requires some micro management, since you might want to assign some citizens as tax collectors to make ends meet - preferably in the cities with all the culture builds.

    I also prefer the Celts when playing for 100k. The agricultural trait for quick expansion, and religious for cheap cathedrals and the two short periods of anarchy (despotism -> Republic -> Feudalism)
    I usually play the game in two different phases. First phase is the expansion phase, where all cities produce either settlers or workers. In this phase I also research first the republic slingshot, and afterwards to gunpowder and monotheism. In phase two I turn off research, switch to feudalism and start pop-rushing culture buildings. Of course There might still be some expansion in phase two, but the sooner you get the culture buildings the faster you'll reach 100k.

    The only two wonders I pursue in a 100k game are Pyramids and Temple of Artemis. I usually build a few temples by hand in the early game, since their culture still doubles after a millenium even when you have the ToA. The ToA also plays a part in the research strategy, since it would expire if you research Education. But still gunpowder is worth researching because musketmen are helpful for short-rushing buldings.

    If I had to come up with another bottom line for 100k games in addition to the one above it would be: "Food is production". Or in other words - irrigate everything to make your cities grow as fast as possible for pop-rushing. The good thing about that strategy is that you don't need to reach Communism for production, you simply use the food to produce the buildings.
     
  4. Desertsnow

    Desertsnow πr²

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    The Celts are an outstanding civilization for 100k culture. Any religious civ is good (for cheap temples for early culture), but the agricultural trait makes it easy to set up a settler factory or several. Temple of Artemis is great for culture games (all those temples), but I am usually tempted to build the Great Library (so I can turn off research); this is a bit of a dilemma as the two come at about the same time. GL also expires at the same time as ToA. I still haven't quite broken my Wonder addiction yet, though I'm working on it.
     
  5. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    Feudalism allows poprushing and its unit support in the opposite of many others; the smaller cities support more units than the larger (5/3/1, I think).

    For a culture game, where you did need a lot of territory, this can be helpful. Whip the cathedral, drop the city from size 9 to 5 and support two more Knights.

    The five main culture buildings are temple, library, university, cathedral and colosseum. Research Labs add culture, too, but they come late in the game.

    If you go with Feudalism, once your science farms max out their cultural builds they can build settlers that be added to other cities to poprush something.

    In any poprushing gov't, the downside is cycling through the cities each turn so that you don't waste your citizens when you use them. Whip 2 population points for 39 shields may have to be done from time to time, but you don't want to spend 2 pop to rush 21 shields.

    I think CBob03 Germans in Tu-tus is the most recent Cultural VC SG, where we used Feudalism to get us there. Huge Pangea on Monarch, 160K Culture Points needed.
     
  6. Pacioli

    Pacioli Prince

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  7. del62

    del62 Deity

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    If you can get Pyramids and TOA on a pangea that is a good start, agriculture for growth and religous, make the Celts the best choice.

    For lower levels get Masonary asap then alphabet (probably trade for this) then writing, COL, philosophy republic slingshot, at this point you want to generate cash for rushing settlers and workers, then at a more leisurely pace beline currency (core markets0 and Polytheism

    Then make you way to Middle Ages, I prefer to leave my switch to feudalism to when I have enough cities say at least 170 on a standard map, as I dont want to be pop rushing settlers

    Aggressively connect up luxuries and switch to feudalism, as the celts with two irrigated grassland grows to size 4 you can rush twenty shields, this can happen every two turns with pyramids, it means that every turn you have to cycle through all your cities, not fun.

    Whatever you do dont build or capture the Great Wall, short rushed for shileds, 20 walls, 40 longbow or medieval infantry, 60 musket, 80 if needed courthouse, 100 market, in a two turn growth town u should be able to build library and cathedral in 8 turns each, then colossuem in 12 turns giving a 10cpt city. You will need as many luxuries hooked up as possible to make this work, some towns without grassland will take longer.

    Once a town has finished use it a tax farm.

    Nikodemus thread is a good guide.
     
  8. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    This is something I didn't quite understand yet: why do you pop-rush in several steps, instead of waiting till it reaches let's say size 5/6 and then rush the lib/cathedral in one go? Does the unhappiness increase with the number of rushes or with the number of citizens sacrificed? If it increases with the number of rushes, it would make more sense to do it less often.
    And: for those towns that have a food bonus available, it makes sense to let them grow to size 7, because starting at size 4 it can make 10 fpt, so it can grow from 4 to 7 in just 3 turns! That's 60 shields in 3 turns, instead of just 30 shields.

    Lanzelot
     
  9. del62

    del62 Deity

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    There is no problem with the extra growth, but with extra cramped cities, other cities might need those tiles.

    I agree for those sites with a food bonus, if you can get one turn growth
     
  10. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    You can only pop-rush up to half of your city size. If you wanted to pop-rush a cathedral in a size 10 city, with 20 shields already accumlated somehow, it would take 7 citizens and the game won't let you do that in one fell swoop. But you could do it in stages, which is what del62 is showing.

    Pop-rushing unhappiness is cumulative and lasts 20 turns for each sacrificed citizen. Which is why luxuries are a bit more critical. If we pop-rushed that cathedral in one turn, that city would have 140 turns of pop-rushing angst to deal with. The cathedral helps offset that, as does the temple built before it. And we also dropped the population from 10 to 3, so there are fewer people to manage. And if there is unhappiness that luxuries and improvements won't cure then do the normal thing and hire specialists.
     
  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    While in Feudalism, you will be pop-rushing. After rushing an improvement, you will need to regrow your population. If you work on something else at 1 spt as the population grows, you will need to work on it for 20 turns (10 for a half-price temple, if you don't have the ToA, or a settler) for your investment to be of any use. If you have a bunch of food, you'll be ready to rush again before that happens. Instead, build wealth as your population rises. This will help cover your maintenance costs. Then, switch to your improvement a turn before your population is ready to sacrifice, so you'll have one shield in the bin when you rush.

    After you have all your improvements, then build wealth and set any extra citizens to taxmen, as del62 said.

    If you are playing conquests, don't build the great library, as it will make sure you learn education, and that will expire ToA. Build or capture the ToA and then never learn education. This means you can't build universities, so you'll need lots of towns with free temples. ICS is your friend. ToA temples don't double their cpt, so build real temples in your core cities before you get the ToA.

    Remember that pop-rushing in steps is still rushing it all in one turn. To rush an 80-shield library starting with 5 people and one shield in the bin, first spend 2 people to get a barracks/longbow/etc, then switch to a musket/granary/etc and rush again, then switch to the library and rush again. In this way you don't ever sacrifice more than half your people in a rush, but you can sacrifice all but one in a turn.
     
  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Now I get it...! :goodjob:
     
  13. Mursi lives

    Mursi lives Warlord

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    I got a strange problem about 100k and maintenance costs: I dont pay any maintenance for buildings when i am under feudalism :think:. In another thread CKS told me he has to pay and builds wealth in his cities for that, so I assumed there was a bug in my C3C.

    Since, I changed my computer, reinstalled civ from scratch and tried again. Under C3C v1.0, I still dont pay for maintenance. I then downloaded and installed the 1.22 patch from this site and tried again: I still dont pay maintenance under feudalism. The red coin near the building in the city screen is still here but the maintenance in the F1 screen drops to 0 and i really dont lose the money during the interturn. Also my in-game civipedia explicitly says that there is no maintance costs under feudalism. Any idea? Is it possible there is an hidden change between the original cd and more recent editions? :confused:
     
  14. CKS

    CKS Deity

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    Maybe I'm the one with a bug. I had radio on my 1.22 tech tree for a while; it took ages to figure that one out.
     
  15. del62

    del62 Deity

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    You do pay maintenance under Feudalism.
     
  16. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    yeah - that seems buggy. I've never seen a government where you didn't pay for maintenance - I wonder if you have a modded file of some sort.
     
  17. Mursi lives

    Mursi lives Warlord

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    No, I didnt mod anything. My only nonstandard setup is that i use french language but i cant believe it has any impact on game mechanics.
     
  18. splunge the 2nd

    splunge the 2nd King

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    Another question- I have Temple of Artemis built and am accruing culture from all the free temples in my little fully corrupt cities. I'm a few turns from education. Is it worth getting education so i can rush Universities and build the temples by hand or stagnate as long as I can tech-wise and coast on the temples it provides.
     
  19. Pacioli

    Pacioli Prince

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    In most of my 100k games, I do not research education. I'm not an expert but I believe you would be better off in most cases staying with the temples generated from the ToA.
     
  20. Desertsnow

    Desertsnow πr²

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    I do research Education, but on the other hand I am kind of attached to the Great Library. You might have other fish to fry depending on your style.
     

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