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Trying for the elusive Deity win (guidance appreciated)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Stories & Let's Plays' started by redwings1340, Aug 27, 2013.

  1. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    For a long time, I have been playing Civ on emperor (and can win that difficulty the majority of the time), and am 1-1 on the immortal level (with my most recent immortal game dominating with Ethiopia). I tried playing deity as a challenge a while back not expecting to come close, and while I was well short in that game, I also made some big errors early, and I was close enough that I became convinced the difficulty was possible. The second time I played Deity, I chose Venice and there were some moments where I was mildly concerned with the state of my empire...
    Spoiler :


    I thought for a brief period of time though that I was going to build the space ship, but the Aztecs launched 2 turns before I could. I have diplo victory off in my games because I think the way it's balanced now, it comes way too early and is too easy.

    Now I'm convinced that I definitely can beat deity, but I only have a week before school starts, and I would feel better if I could win my next and probably last game of civ for a while (playing during the school year is too addicting, so I'm going to try to stop for that). If I'm going to be creating a thread about this though, the game needs to be entertaining as well as good. So...

    What civilization should I play as for my third attempt at deity and why? I want a good civilization (doesn't need to be Maya or Poland level good though), with some war capabilities, but I'm bad at the domination game (I play as primarily a builder), so I don't want it to be all out war. I've tried out England and Venice so far on deity (and I've done Ethiopia on Immortal successfully), so I would rather not replay them. Suggestions?

    Edit: if you want to start reading my game threads and skip these intro posts, go to post 7.
     
  2. CountAccountant

    CountAccountant Warlord

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    Awesome! I'm really glad that you decided to make a thread for your last Deity game before school resumes. I'll look forward to following along.

    I almost certainly don't have enough deity experience to recommend a decent civ, but I'll follow along and jump in if you don't get enough other suggestions.
     
  3. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Just by the way, my initial considerations for civs are:
    Poland: Some nice UUs, great policy. I'm afraid they might be just too good though, and I don't want to feel like my first deity win was due to the civ and not to me, so I'm hesitant at picking them.
    Arabia: I haven't played with them in a long time, and camel archers/bazaar sounds awesome. I doubt I could get a religion or even spread it effectively with the ua on deity. Still, the uu and ub make this civ tempting.
    Portugal: I loved playing with them the first time I tried them out, although I'm a little afraid that having no starting bonuses would make it pretty difficult to get them to work.
    Inca: terrace farms are pretty cool and I haven't played with them in forever.
     
  4. Tich

    Tich Prince

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    I would play as either Maya, Shoshone or Poland. I love Shoshone myself and I've been playing them a ton lately. They have ridiculous early game bonuses which is basically all you need to be a top tier civ. I'd rank them right up there with Maya and although they're not quite on Poland's level (I don't think so anyways) they're still really OP.

    Alternatively you could play as Babylon or Korea. Probably Bab. They just plain get more science and science is the game lol. Planting that lighting-fast Academy is just disgusting really since you basically get double the science that most civs do at that stage of the game.

    Still, my vote would go towards Maya, Poland or Shoshone (my 3 favorite civs). I'll say Shoshone as my #1 but I mean I wouldn't mind seeing any of the 3.

    EDIT: Although Inca is sweet if you're willing to re-roll dumb starts. They don't need absurd mountain ranges or anything but I've seen some pretty lame openers as them. Would kind of suck to play a bad start for your first Deity win as such a niche civ.
     
  5. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Yeah I think Shoshone is a good idea, if there are nice spots around I would go libery to grab lots of dirt quickly.
     
  6. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    I figured the Shoshone wouldn't be quite as good on deity because all the ruins will be taken that much faster. If you say they are still good on deity though, I quite enjoyed playing them the first time on emperor. It was one of my most dominating wins. Shoshone it is then!

    I didn't want to play as Korea or Babylon because even though lightning fast science sounds incredibly appealing, they play more defensively than aggressively, and I am afraid the game might be too boring with them. Then again, I did get in to a multi-thousand year war with Spain when I played as Korea once (my first Hwach'a was a logistics +range rocket artillery by the time it died in the same war, I made a terrible mistake and it was bombed to death...), so who knows, any civ can be interesting.

    Still, I'll work with the shoshone. We need more land! Early faith ruin and religious settlements! Never surrender an inch of territory! Liberty spam all the settlers! Whee!
     
  7. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    The Story begins
    In the beginning of the universe, there were people going around from place to place, hunting and gathering, with no land to call their own. The world was happy and fruitful, and was a good place. Then, some people discovered how to farm, and they shunned the Shoshone nomads from their newly founded cities (justification for deity bonuses). Great leader Pocatello of the Shoshone tribes decreed this unfair, but with one warrior and the world turning against his hunting and gathering ideals, he was forced to settle one of his own cities to claim land for nature itself. The great tyranny of the land hoggers would one day come to an end, he vowed, and all the land would be free once again, just as in times past.

    Learning from the past
    Ancient hunting and gathering civilizations had been systematically exterminated by the city dwellers, and culturally forced to adapt to the changing times. Still, reports of ancient peoples who may have survived the purge lingered, and Pocatello ordered another pathfinder to be built to uncover the secrets that were left behind. Afterwards he ordered a monument to show our appreciation to the land and our ancient ways, and then soon decreed that the land would be free (took liberty).

    While the ancient shoshone people had little use for gods, soon one of our pathfinders discovered the ancient ways of other tribes, and our people fell in love with the old gods. One ancient people shared to us the ways of worshipping gold and silver (took +1 culture/+1 faith for those resources pantheon), and the next ancient ruin was wonderful to behold, as the people promised us that a great prophet was going to be coming in our near future (+60 faith! I was hoping for an actual great prophet, but oh well, that would be a bit much)

    Spoiler :


    The Barbarian plague
    While our pathfinders were out studying the ancients, barbarians plagued the homelands. Moson Kahni was busy constructing the pyramids, and the enemy kept coming and coming until we finally got some archers to deal with them. We tried negotiating with the enemy, as the barbarians are the only honorable people left who agree that the land should be shared by all, but they were not convinced. Then, after the nearest barbarian camp was dealt with, a newer problem arose.

    Welp, this game might be short
    You see, I haven't mentioned yet that Greece and the Zulu spawned next to me. After building so many workers and archers (pyramids, liberty worker, stolen worker), I didn't have the money to bribe these backwards thinking peoples against one another until we gain the strength to rise up and liberate the land. Alexander massed on our borders and wants all the land to himself, and even with 4 archers and 2 pathfinders, I fear that I lack the strength to fight him. I should be able to get in a decent positioning as my units are all to the west, and were planning to hunt down a barbarian encampment, but even so, he has better military tech and even if I were to get construction, I don't have the money to upgrade them into composites. If the Shoshone fall here, the land of this world will tremble forever.

    Spoiler :


    Side notes: Ethiopia founded a religion, but I'm probably in second place in terms of faith. If I survive this, I think Ethiopia will need to die, because they have only one place to expand their religion, and that is through me :(.
     
  8. CountAccountant

    CountAccountant Warlord

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    Congrats on the Pyramids and :lol: at the description of the barbarians. Excellent start so far.

    Edit: That picture of Greece is pretty terrifying, though.
     
  9. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    :lol: I think you'll be fine... that coastal capitol is tougher than it looks and Greece doesn't seem to have any ranged units so only 3 units can attack at a time. As long as you keep the units adjacent to the city weak and in the red, they'll just sit there fortifying while your city gets potshots on the rest of their units. If they have 4 chariots though, you're screwed.
     
  10. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    From bad to worse
    1 turn later:
    Spoiler :

    Ethiopia has now also declared war on me, and Panama city is going to be getting on the action, presumably trying to recover that worker that I stole from them a while ago. I told them I was sorry, but for the land to be free, some people who aren't the Shoshone must be enslaved. For some reason this didn't go over well with the city state though, and they allied themselves with Ethiopia. I'm surrounded by everyone who hates me and covets the free land, and the concept of land being its own master is in peril.

    I am currently going to send one archer to Te-Moak to slow down Ethiopia (but I'm giving up that city as gone eventually), while keeping the rest of my forces near the capital to fend off the romans. This is not at all a good situation, but I hope I can survive long enough to extract my revenge on them later in the game. I decree that if I survive this coming fight, this world is going to drown in blood in fire, and Ethiopia is going to go first.
     
  11. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Well...
    I might have been able to fight off Rome alone, but here's basically what happened after this...
    Spoiler :

    Spoiler :


    Well, so much for that attempt...
    The good news is that this was so short, I still have time for one more try before school starts (which I will continue to post on this thread). Does anyone know how I could have avoided this fate? I feel like I had a decently sized army for the time, but early armies on deity are just so big, I have no idea how to fight off an early warmonger, much less 2! Maybe I should get construction earlier so I can focus on composites? I also feel like tradition is almost necessary for the +50% city bonus. Without it my cities are just so weak and easily taken.

    EDIT: Next major game write up starts on post #18
     
  12. CountAccountant

    CountAccountant Warlord

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    I can't help you on the military side, but the write up was hilarious ("I'm sorry, but for the land to be free, some humans must be enslaved!"). Sorry this one didn't work out. I'm glad you're able to make a second attempt, though.
     
  13. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Thanks, that means a lot actually. I've been trying my best to copy your write-up style and make it humorous and interesting (honestly, sometimes I've been going to your threads to try and get ideas for what to say) , but I have no idea if I've actually been succeeding. I'm glad you're appreciating it at least :). Hmm, for civs, who should I choose this time? I'm thinking either Poland or Arabia. Arabia just sounds fun, while Poland sounds like my best chance of getting a win before the week is over.

    Interestingly, earlier, soon after BNW came out, I decided to play as the mayans on prince just so I could see how much I could dominate everyone. I had been winning games on emperor before trying this out, so I was pretty confident I could probably be an era ahead of everyone by the game's end. I beelined theology with the great library, got as much science as I could, was working on the national college, and then the Huns declared war on me and killed me... This is why I'm not really considering the mayans as a possibility right now, because I just don't really want to play as them.
     
  14. CountAccountant

    CountAccountant Warlord

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    Well, if you were emulating my writing, no wonder it was good :D

    Joking aside, I did enjoy the thread very much. In fact, I plan to borrow heavily from your characterization of the Shoshone for my own write up (with attribution, of course).

    Regarding which civ to play next, I vote Arabia. You might feel that your victory has been cheapened if you do it with Poland, even though I don't think that they are necessarily unreasonably overpowered.
     
  15. kb27787

    kb27787 Emperor

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    :lol: too bad (didn't expect Ethiopia to get in on the action)
    I presume you had no luck bribing Shaka to hit Alex...

    If you want a sure-fire win, play Spain :mischief: any early NW usually means gg
    I think the Aztecs would be fun to play... (jungle start means city is hard to take out, and your jaguars with a few drill promotions just eat up whatever pathetic catapults they try to send) I can imagine the write-up about sacrificial captives to be hilarious as well.
    If you want to make sure you survive the first 100 turns, play Polynesia :lol: plus their background music is kickass.
     
  16. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Yeah, Shaka was in the middle of demolishing the Mayans, and didn't really care about my war. I've played Spain recently, and don't really want to again, although I have a nice appreciation for them now. I'm a bit afraid that I'll have no production as the Aztecs. I've heard people say that jungle starts aren't very good on deity, even if they do work decently with jaguars. Also, I feel like getting so many early units will cripple me in the long run. The game would be interesting though, and yeah, sacrificial captives would be cool for the narrative. I'll decide what to do in a couple of hours when I start the next game.
     
  17. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Well, I played half a game as Arabia, and oh boy was the game boring. I started on an island, barely missed Petra by 62 turns, and met my first civilization, Assyria, in 800 BC. I quickly met Sweden, and haven't met anyone else yet by 125 AD, and I'm starting to think I won't until astronomy. No wars are happening because I'm too far away from these people to even form trade routes with them! There's one city state on my island.

    Basically, this game is boring and I'm going to load up another. I'll give you a screenshot. I haven't entered the medieval era yet, and everyone else is getting to the renaissance. Arabia on an island with no trading partners is kind of horrible...

    Spoiler :


    Time to try again. I'm giving up on this game.
     
  18. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    Well, I decided to bite the bullet and play as Poland. They're awesome anyway, and for being op, it's deity and I play with diplo victory off. I can be as op as I want to be, and it's still an achievement if I can win! I am very ok with this.

    Now, this game is also pretty boring, but I'll give you the highlights. It's currently 1 AD, and the world right now is in a friendship bubble, mostly because nobody is really in attacking range of each other.

    In the real world, Jesus Christ was born at around this time, but in the civ world, there is going to be no religion founded around him at this time. This is because the laws of the universe dictate that there may only be 5 religions in the world, and they have all been taken. I managed to get no religion, and honestly, it's kind of a relief. Religion gives you one more thing to think about and produce hammers for, so unless you have some nice religious bonuses in your civ, I don't think religion is worth taking, especially on deity.

    From the beginning
    The great founder of Poland, named Outrageous Policies (or OP for short), knew that to settle a city, you must be aware of your surroundings. Therefore, he ordered two scouts to be trained, to look around and observe the surrounding areas. He sent out his initial warrior to scout too, and the investment paid off quite well. Our scouting forces found 2 technologies that had been secret to us before hand (Animal husbandry and mining), and found a great abandoned city which needed to be replicated in our culture (culture ruin). To celebrate this influx of culture, OP ordered that we model our empire on the traditional cities of the past (took tradition). The city of Poland was happy and healthy, living on the costal waters of the north, with plenty of wheat, incense and marble to satisfy its occupants.

    While our scouts would normally send us back technologies and cultural ruins, one day, one of our great scouting parties from a thousand years past returned to our city. OP was overjoyed at their return, although was less happy about their newfound savageness from being out in the wild for so long. The scouting party's battle hardened attitude had made them capture a worker from a helpless city state, and they brought it back to Poland. Recognizing that the road was too dangerous to send the worker back to M'Banza-Kongo, OP took the worker in to the Polish empire, and paid fair wages to the worker to attempt to atone for the scout's crime.

    Meanwhile, as punishment, OP exiled the scout from Poland to send them to the unmarked eastlands, where barbarians roamed freely. Exile wasn't the best move though, because the scout stole another helpless worker from a different city state, Ife. While OP did not approve of this move, he did not give the worker back to Ife either, because they are an evil religious city state who gave us 8 useless faith that we never used. In shock at OP's decision to keep the scout alive, Ife declared that they were angry at Poland for all of eternity, unless, of course, Poland could make amends and keep their influence up (-20 permanent influence resting point).

    More cities
    Meanwhile, OP ordered that his empire have more flourishing cities, and Krakow and eventually Lodz were formed. Poland gained more incense than they could possibly dream of using themselves, but OP managed to trade it to other civs for very nice money. Meanwhile, Warsaw and Krakow formed an alliance in the Polish empire, and have trade routes going back and forth between them, to create some glorious population growth.

    Social Policies
    A wise man came up to OP and told him that while he was running the country well, he did not have enough social policies at the moment. The wise man predicted that soon, the country will gain another social policy and gain a new technology called an aquaduct in each city. OP thought the prediction to be a great magic, and named the wise man an oracle. As soon as the people accepted this oracle, the original prediction came true! Finally Poland had enough social policies for the time being, and the wise man continued to provide his advice for people, in the form of increasing culture by an additional 3.

    Religion
    While OP himself was not interested in gods or faith, the Moroccan traders were, and they started spreading the true religion of Islam in to our cities. Fantastically, Islam granted us the power to see beyond the surface of incense, and gave an additional culture and faith for each plantation on that resource! This eventually raised faith from none to +5 a turn, until suddenly, Poland wanted to worship their own gods and formed a pantheon in the nation. All the pantheon beliefs were sadly worse than Islam, but the pantheon was short lived, as more Moroccan missionaries came to tell us how free will is wrong, and that worshipping your own gods is like worshipping no gods at all.

    Other Notes
    Here's a screenshot:
    Spoiler :


    So far not much action in terms of warfare because as you can see, there's kind of a natural barrier. Barbarians troubled OP for a while, but they were eventually defeated. I'm feeling pretty good about my situation right now, and while I'm sorry for the relatively boring game, I'm happy about where I am. I tried to make it as entertaining as possible, at least. Hopefully the game picks up a bit when I get to navigation.
     
  19. Maxym

    Maxym King

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    Well since you play with diplo off (not a good idea on deity as sometimes it's the last resort) science might be your only option. And Poland really can into space ;)

    Set your scouts sailing at astro, and send food cargo ships between Warsaw and Krakow. Yo need to grow them huge. Keep growing cities, food is number one priority, open Patro to consulates, pledge to protect, then straight into Ratio.

    Did you really steal two workers from CS? And got yourself 20 point reduction in influence? Or was it just with Ife? Coz if it was with all CS, then no point in grabbing consulates. Try to avoid that in the future.

    Go down to 50% more from RA, try to have a GE for PT or hard build if you have too. Remember open tree is not a policy choice so AI might grab it without you knowing.

    Just spam RAs and pick ideology late as it will mess your relations up. Go with dominant ideology as you don't need the unhappy.
     
  20. redwings1340

    redwings1340 Emperor

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    If my goal was just to win and get a deity win achievement, I would have played with diplo on. I want to feel like I've earned this win though, and honestly, diplo is such an easy victory condition right now it just doesn't feel right. Sure, it would help me win, but the late game is more fun with the condition off, so I'm keeping it off.

    Yeah... I did steal 2 workers from city states. The -20 is just with Ife though, nobody else. They are a religious city state right next to me, I can deal with that.

    Policy wise, I'm Poland, so I have a ridiculous number of them. I have all of tradition, patronage/consolates, the commerce opener, and the exploration opener. I'm not in the renaissance era yet, so I can't open rationalism, but until then my justification is that the openers of commerce and exploration are actually really good. The trees have some terrible options later, but if I need to select another before the renaissance, I can go down exploration a little bit before it gets bad. One of my goals in this game is to never choose a bad social policy, because I don't think there's a non-finisher policy that is worth taking a useless policy for.
     

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