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Trying to figure out what type of desk top to buy to play civ 6

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Technical Support' started by Crodriiy123, Feb 13, 2017.

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  1. Crodriiy123

    Crodriiy123 Chieftain

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    I currently have a laptop that barely plays civ 5 on the minimum requirements. I'm not very tech savvy so its hard to compare models. I went to Best Buy and a rep showed me a desktop that was over $1,000. I wasn't sure if that was the norm. this is the link to the computer. Any help would be appreciated also sorry if this is already a thread

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/cyberpo...hard-drive-black-blue/5732514.p?skuId=5732514
     
  2. DJ_Tanner

    DJ_Tanner Emperor

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    For a "gaming" PC they will usually start around $1,000 so this isn't out of the norm.

    However if you are only looking for something that will run Civ VI, then you could get something in the $300-700 range pretty easily. Just use the settings listed on the store page for the key items like processor, RAM (memory), and graphics card. You can plug most of those values into a website and get a decent list back to do some comparison shopping. If you don't mind buying online and having it shipped websites like newegg.com and tigerdirect.com are usually the best places for good deals.
     
  3. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    If you just want to play at reasonable settings you could spend little more than half that amount and be a happy camper. I'll do a quick roundup so you don't lose hope and buy the one you posted. Hopefully others will give you more specifics.

    Something like this would do well :

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIABFS52E2247

    I'm cheap when it comes to PCs. Feel that we pay too much for marginal improvements so take my recommendations with a grain of salt.

    Processor - Get an I5, speed is better than cores as most apps/games aren't optimized for multithreads/cores. 4th tier down on this chart is lowest you should go. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html

    GPU - A 1050 or equivalent will suit you. Use this chart when comparing http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

    Hard drive - SSDs are so much faster. Sacrifice SSD speed over size if you can.

    Memory - 8GB is fine.

    So stick to an I5 or AMD equivalent, 1050 or AMD equivalent, prioritize SSD and don't go for more than 8gb of memory and you'll be happily playing Civ 6 and most other modern titles at decent settings while sitting on a pile of cash you can spend on games or accessories.
     
  4. zyx

    zyx Prince

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    Although you didn't ask me, yet I'd advise you to reconsider whether you really want to play Civ 6 in its current state - maybe play it on a friend's computer first. Buying a new laptop to play Civ 6... - well, I'd rather install Dosbox and play the original Civilization.
    It is so much more fun to build and launch a "real" spaceship than to do abstract satelite, moon and Mars missions.
     
  5. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    Or he could buy the computer now and play with mods which make the game a lot of fun, even in its
    present state. Why wait because some other people can't or won't use mods? ;)
     
  6. Crodriiy123

    Crodriiy123 Chieftain

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    Thanks for all the replies! I'm not a huge PC gamer, in fact Civ is the only game i really play on PC. I've dabbled with Warhammer and boarderlands. I wasn't sure if the graphics card would be overkill for this game but i was also thinking for future games i would want to play and I'm sure the 1050 would achieve that. Also is it easier to upgrade a tower vs laptop? Based on the trend on how games are going, how long would the tower be able to handle max output with most games?
     
  7. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    A tower is easier.
    Although smaller components benefit both laptops and towers, there is a
    lot more flexibility for adding extra equipment inside tower cases.
    OTOH, a tower isn't portable, so you have to consider your lifestyle.
     
  8. Crodriiy123

    Crodriiy123 Chieftain

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    I'd prefer the tower. It just confusing to compare since i'm not sure how to compare to other models, for instance graphic cards. NVIDIA vs AMD. I see a lot of people use NVIDIA with PC builds. Is it that good or could i suffice with an AMD product. It seems NVIDIA are the more expensive of the two
     
  9. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    I've found toms hierarchy chart to be pretty accurate for both CPUs and GPUs.

    Part of the reason NVIDIA is getting more play is they just released their latest generation cards while AMD is set to release later in the year.

    On your prior question in terms of how long you'd be able to handle max settings, you'd have to get back to $1,200 range with the majority of that spend on a GPU and you'd probably buy yourself 2 years ?

    While top end performance typically doesn't have a long tail, with 4k and VR gaining prominence this is probably the wrong time to be buying top of the line gear.
     
  10. Crodriiy123

    Crodriiy123 Chieftain

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    So you think if i pick the specs to fit the max output for civ 6 (i5, NVIDIA 770, 8GB ram) It'll be obsolete in a few years? If so wuld i be able to upgrade or would i have to get a whole new tower
     
  11. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    Not obsolete, just not able to run the latest games pushing the latest tech at max settings.

    To give you an idea I've got 2012 CPU with a 2012 GPU. Both midrange at the time. Civ 5 and 6 play fine. 5 I was able to run at max settings with minimal performance hits. 6 I have to dial it down otherwise the turn times get too long (5 seconds) for my liking in later eras.

    To your question, yes, upgrading my GPU would do wonders for Civ6 and other games. Not so much the CPU though. You've got the right idea, tower will give you an upgrade path and thats primarily going to be through the GPU.
     
  12. Severus

    Severus Warlord

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    Have you thought about building one rather than buying a pre-built?

    I'm getting around to building my second pc so that I can play civ 6 once it looks near to being of the standard I'm looking for, but primarily it's so I can keep playing civ 4 (this pc, which was my first build, is 16 years old now and it's finally started freezing with no warning once I get to turn 150+ on large maps), and like you when it comes to pc gaming it's only the civ series I've ever really bothered with, so I'm in a similar situation and thought I'd pass on my thoughts.

    The benefits of building one over buying pre-built:
    1) it's cheaper
    2) you can tailor it exactly for what you want
    3) as my 16-year old pc shows, you can ensure that what's in it is of consistent quality throughout
    4) it gives you a far greater understanding of what to upgrade in the future and how to replace parts if they go wrong
    5) you can ensure it's as future-proofed as can be

    As an example: the vast majority of people I know are locked into a cycle of buying a new pre-built pc or laptop and it's great for a couple of years before typically in the third and fourth years its performance drops badly or something breaks in it altogether and then they go and buy a new pre-built. And the majority of them have been doing that since the mid-90s. That's fair enough if you want to do that but if you were to build it yourself you could do things like replace the stock cpu cooler which will in likelihood give up in year 3 with one which will last beyond that and also reduce your cpu core temp by 20 degrees C.

    My own personal considerations are based around "if I'm spending upwards of £900 (I think that's around $1100 or so although these days since we voted for suicide - sorry, brexit - I have no idea lol) I might as well get the best I possibly can so my "computing experience" is as good as it possibly can be and give the most value for money, so I'd rather have a pc in a silent case which has better airflow and lets me add another fan for £50 more than the case I'll get in a pre-built - since I find the added ambience you get from a silent room in the middle of the night four hours into a civ session far outweighs a pc that's hissing away in the corner. And I'd rather have the better airflow it gives so my cpu and gpu run even cooler because it means everything will just work as they should for as long as they're meant to.

    Anyway I thought I'd share all that babble just in case it's useful in any way.

    A couple of things specifically civ related:
    1) I have to politely disagree with the statement on an above post that cores don't matter and get an i5. Civ is hugely cpu intensive so from what I've read the difference between an i7 and an i5 deep into the game is huge. Maybe i7s in a pre-built don't fit your budget but I would say if having a pc optimized for handling the late game turn times is a top priority then it's i7 over i5 every day of the week.

    2) From things I've read there's a big difference to how civ 6 looks on ultra compared to lower levels, or maybe it's people's views on the graphics style. Either way my view on gpus is if I have to spend £150 minimum on a decent graphics card I might as well spend an extra £20-£30 and that gets me a 1060 3GB. That's not a recommendation for that over the 1050 that was mentioned, just based on having watched a few of the civ benchmarking vids.

    In case my arguments for building your own sway you here's the build I'm settling on (and the term "building" is far too grandiose anyway, all you're doing is screwing things together), posting it because I think it's around the prices mentioned in this thread:

    Asus Z170-A motherboard (socket 1151 so most future proofed I think)
    I7 6700k cpu
    MSI 1060 3GB gpu
    1x8GB Kingston Savage DDR4 RAM
    550 watt 80+ Gold EVGA Supernova power supply
    120GB Sandisk SSD
    Arctic Freezer Pro Rev 2 cpu cooler
    One case fan, and
    Fractal Design define R5 black windowless case.

    Total currently £950

    Hope that's helpful in some way.
     
  13. Crodriiy123

    Crodriiy123 Chieftain

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    I always wondered about building my own, i just figured it would be more expensive. Why do you think building a PC would last longer than buying one from the store?
     
  14. whyidie

    whyidie Emperor

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    All the benchmarks I've read point to minimal noticeable increases for a game like Civ. Personally just built an i7 build for a friend and mid game had no noticeable difference vs my 5yr old i5 when we ran the same GPU. Civ benchmarks showed minimal improvements. Did not load a late game huge map loaded civ game though. He's still happy with the I7 though. It benchmarked better and it was a little snappier overall. Worth the price difference ? Not to me, but as I stated, I don't set out to build a lamborghini.

    Some choice quotes from the mega performance thread. Feel free to give it a read as there are differing opinions on AI, hyper threading, etc., but there is nothing but violent agreement on CPU performance in Civ. Of note is the people I'm quoting don't agree on many other things in the thread. In addition, like me, they actually have access to multiple desktops and have run civ6 on them. This isn't theoretical benchmarking, its actual hands on experience.

    Spoiler :



    Not to hammer this home too much, but the real bottleneck is the software. I've been around multi-threaded multi core applications since the late 90's. Makes a huge difference when the software is designed to use the hardware. This game, like most other games, is not. Having an I7 for someone whos heaviest load is CIV6 is like buying a Lamborghini when all you are ever going to do with it is drive it 1 block. Will it be better than a Honda Accord ? Objectively and subjectively ? YES! Goodness YES! ITS A LAMBORGHINI! YES!

    But is the performance over that block worth the cost ? YMMV. Personally I can't stand spending that much more for so little impact.

    Fair point. Think you are on the mark in regards to peoples views relative to what their GPU can do. I'm deferring on GPU, I haven't put in the work on the latest offerings from NVIDIA. Maybe 1060 is the sweet spot. The I7 build i mentioned earlier, it was the 1060 that made the larger difference in performance. Unfortunately didn't have a 1050 to compare it to at the time.
     
  15. Severus

    Severus Warlord

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    It's cheaper to build your own because, all things being equal, when you buy pre-built you're paying for the components, labour and whatever extra profit those who do the assembly add on, and also the retailer's profit; when you build your own you're paying for parts and the retailer's profit. So you don't pay the labour and, because vastly more people buy pre-built than build their own, the profit margin retailers have from selling components is naturally lower and so you make further savings.

    I don't mean they last longer by default since it depends on the components you put in them but (because of the reasons above) for retailers selling pre-built to be able to offer systems with one or two top quality components at a competitive price they have to skimp on quality elsewhere. And the likelihood of a pc having no problems whatsoever for years is dependent on its weakest component.

    Like power supplies for instance. You might buy a system with a great cpu and great gpu at a great price and not even give any thought to the power supply when the chances are that in order to keep the total cost of the system down the power supply contains Chinese or Taiwanese capacitors rather than Japanese. It's a fact that Japanese-made last longer, therefore if a pc contains a psu with non-Japanese it's inherently more likely to fail quicker when it comes to that component.
     
  16. Severus

    Severus Warlord

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    But that's why I said "optimized for LATE game turn times" lol. Due to the nature of civ games (and obviously it's dependent on what map sizes, game speed etc you like to play as to how big a deal for you it is) how well a CPU handles it is defined by the late game. If you played the exact same late game on an i7 and i5 every single turn your noticed minimal improvement would become more pronounced every few turns and the entire late game as a whole, indeed the entire game as a whole, is hugely different. For me I've always played civ on large or huge maps and marathon speed so it's a factor for me, I'm not clicking end turn and thinking "well it's only a few seconds more to wait so I'm not bothered", I'm thinking of the total effect over all the turns.

    Is the i7 price difference worth it? It depends on the price obviously lol but also to me it's about longevity. I mean I bought my current CPU in 2001. Even if the next CPU I buy only lasts half that time I'll have it for a minimum of 8 years, it makes no sense to me not to pay an extra £50 to £100 more than I have to on something which gives undeniably better performance. But that goes back to my point about people locked into a four year "need a new PC" cycle, it's all false economy. I built this pc with the best I could possibly afford for £800 in 2001, I have no doubt if I'd gone for a lower spec here or there to save a few quid I wouldn't have got as long out of it as I have.

    As for poor multi-thread optimisation, isn't the fact civ is poorly optimised just another argument for i7 over i5? As in the more it is optimised in the future the greater the improvement to be had with an i7.

    Not that I'm bashing i5s in any way at all, I think it's astonishing how far all chips have come low range to high end, just my views about what I expect to get for my money in terms of value and longevity differ from most I think.

    To use the Lamborghini example, if I'm having to pay for the engine and chassis of the Lamborghini anyway I might as well buy the doors too.

    ;)
     
  17. Severus

    Severus Warlord

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    One quote from pc gamer regarding civ 6 and CPU:

    "Civilization VI's minimum spec calls for an Intel® Core™ i3 2.5 Ghz processor, which means it can run just fine on a budget gaming PC. But what if we want 60 frames per second at Ultra settings? For that, a powerful CPU like the Intel® Core™ i7 6700K comes in handy.

    The quad-core Intel® Core™ i7 6700K runs at a fast 4.0 GHz out of the box, and that speed pays off in Civilization VI. The cores matter, too. The in-game benchmark simulates a large game of Civ, with cities and units spread across the map and some heavy number-crunching between AI turns. On the Intel® Core™ i7 6700K, it runs beautifully, even at Ultra settings. Paired with a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 to ensure the graphics card never acts as a bottleneck, Civilization VI ran at an average framerate of 80 frames per second, and a minimum framerate of 44 frames per second. That's when the math got really intense.

    Let's add some context. When that same processor is slowed down to simulate an Intel® Core™ i5 6600K, running at 3.5 GHz, Civilization VI's average framerate drops to 67 frames per second, and the average drops down to 35 frames per second. Not bad—Civilization VI is still totally playable on a Core™ i5 6600K, and will run at more than 60 frames per second most of the time. But those framerate dips will be more noticeable later in the game.

    And what about a more budget processor, closer to Civ VI's minimum spec? Here's where the strength of the Intel® Core™ i7 6700K as a fast quad-core processor comes in. With two cores disabled and the clock speed set to 3.7 GHz, the Intel® Core™ i7 6700K will deliver similar performance to the Core™ i3 6100K. On a fast dual-core processor, Civ VI still runs at a decent average framerate of 48 frames per second—but its minimum fps is a stuttering 6 frames per second! The benchmark's most demanding moments cause Civilization VI to grind to a halt for several full seconds. It's just too much for a dual-core processor to handle."

    Honestly I think people badly underestimate how much of a CPU monster Civ is, probably because the graphics aren't of the first person ultra HD "hundreds of objects zooming past you per second" type.

    Well, I'm as little an expert on GPUs as I am CPUs lol but from things I've read about tests it's the 1060 3GB which gives best performance versus price out of all the 1050 - 1080 cards including the 1060 6GB, so my preference is based purely on that. When it comes to graphics I grew up playing games on a ZX Spectrum which could display 8 different colours lol so I could happily live with a 1050. But again, to not spend £30 more for a much increased card when I'd be spending around £150 regardless on a GPU seems like false economy to me; you're just going to have to upgrade it sooner that way, if keeping up to date with future pc games is relevant.

    But I'm just an old civfanatic some of the time, the rest of the time I get told I lack both the intellect and attention span required to play complex games because my chosen gaming platform is ps4, so future pc games don't matter to me :)
     
  18. dark_pretender

    dark_pretender Warlord

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    Hi, sorry for posting here, i know this is a very old post... But i thought it would be dumb to start a New thread about the Same topic... Im very disconected from pc building, years ago... Many years i used to mess with my pc, then started working, stoped gaming, and well, im so disconected of pc world thar i dont know whar to buy and why lol. But Currently im interested in building a pc to retake playing civ series and while i havent played civ 6 yet... I stoped at civ 4 and my favorite at that moment was civ 3 im interested in building something to try the rest of the titles in the franchise including civ 6 (in fact back then i played only civ4 vanilla, no expansions nor mods) so I would like to know if this build can manage civ6 at decent graphics on at least standard maps late game.

    GEFORCE GTX 1050TI
    AMD RYZEN 5 2600
    AMD A320
    16GB DDR4 2666 mhz
    SSD 240GB
    1 TB 7200 rpm
    Power supply (sorry, dont know the right term in english) 450w 80+ Bronze certificated

    Thanks for any advice or sugestions
     
  19. Janskey

    Janskey Prince

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    It will run Civ VI decent enough. You'll not get max graphics settings with 60 FPS @ 1080p and Civ CPU performance is more about high clock speeds, which Intel is still better at, even though AMD's newer 3xxx lineup kicks Intel's hind parts in productive work price/performance-wise. The difference between, say, Intel's 8700K and AMD's 2600 isn't too big of a deal, but the percentage difference stays about the same and you will run into ~minute per turn range, at least with larger maps. E.g. https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...eview-stream-benchmarks-gaming-blender/page-3

    Is there a specific reason for buying older hardware, though? AMD's Ryzen 3xxx-series seems much better and I think currently the best bang for the buck in GPUs is in AMD's 5xxx series. There's also been some talk about Ryzens benefiting from higher-clocked memory, with the sweet spot being around 3000MHz - probably not much of a difference in Civ, but it doesn't cost much more, either. This article is in Finnish, but you can check the charts: https://www.io-tech.fi/artikkelit/ddr4-muistinopeus-ryzen-2n-suorituskyky/

    The power supply in itself doesn't tell anything. I mean, it could be a Chiefmax (http://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2007/09/14/the-bargain-basement-power-supply-roundup/) or a Seasonic (https://www.jonnyguru.com/blog/2017/08/21/seasonic-focus-plus-550-gold-power-supply/). If the manufacturer offers at least three years of warranty, it'll probably do just fine, but some companies offer 10 years, which tells something about the quality and might give you some extra peace of mind.
     
  20. dark_pretender

    dark_pretender Warlord

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    Thanks for your answer... Im still looking for the pc lol. But i have decided to go with a ryzen 5. The main reason for the choosen components is the budget and the fact that now i cant spent 8 hours in a row playing videogames, like i used to do in the past. This year ill start studying again, while also working and dealing with real life stuff... Honestly i have reached that sad point in life where you can buy the pc you dreamed off while being a teenager, but you dont think its actually worth it, just because you know you wont be playing it, like when you were a teenager, (at least is my case) its more some "nostalgia stuff" like "I miss all those afternoons playing from 4 to 12 pm non stop lol. But i know that im not that engaged in videogames anymore, another reason is that im in México... And here a very high profile gaming pc is really expensive... And honestly i preffer to put that money in other things, like car maintenance and some other stuff that hopefully in the future will produce some money. In fact for moments i feel like... Do i really need a gaming pc while i havent touched a real video game in 10 years or so? (Android games to kill time while making short trips doesnt count i guess lol)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020

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