TSG 251 Opening Actions Thread

[Nizef]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[RuntyBassoon143]

Liberty start, 4 cities

T71 - captured my first city. I have so many units I was getting production penalties so I pushed much more aggressively than I normally would and sacrificed a few units.

 

[Megalou]

No time for a write-up, but here are my notes and a 102 screen-shot.

t1: popped pop. The 2nd citizen works gold in order to buy wheat tile.
t6-Uluru found.
t? - Pantheon is Goddess of festivals.
t45 - Collective rule. No settlers till then.
t51- Had to load the turn 50 auto save after accidenttally putting my foot on the computer power button. All moves were successsfully repeated.
t52-Free spearman from Belgrade makes me go for pyramids - 5 archers and two spears could keep England, who will certainly DOW at any time, at bay. But first there’s a 4th settler/city to build, because there is a sheltered area near Buenos Aires and lots of happiness. (I'm hoping for monasteries down the line.)
68 - Working Barringer Crater.
70 - Pyramids. Golden age. We are cultural awe-inspiring leaders.
87 - Religion but no Halleluja, for no monasteries, just Tithe and Holy Warriors. Maybe we should have settled by Uluru.
87 - Declared on England.
93 - Liberty finished, Great Engineer chosen and National College hurried. However, I was about to capture Nottingham (not raze, for the sake of Uluru) so I should have waited with the NC whip. Because of the increase in cities the NC is now 2 turns. (In my defence I thought Nottingham would take at least one more turn.)

I think NC will be a good investment for me. Ashurbanipal is rather powerful and I believe in crossbowmen.

95 -Nottingham Annexed, a fine little place - but I'm sacking the sheriff.
98 - Sacking York.
99- Ottomans eliminated by Assyria. We have Metal casting...
100 - Joined Hiawatha against Ashurbanipal.
102 - England gone. England was a total pushover, which is a bit surprising, since they are often a dangerous neighbour on high difficulties. An explanation is that they were building stuff like Great Library, Parthenon [lipsmacking]. On the whole, the AI appears surprisingly weak for the difficulty level. Perhaps they can't quite cope with the terrain. It was rather weird to see an English settler stagger around alone in the icy north even though there was lots of room for a good city east of London

 

[lerrocco]

This game will be challenging for me, both in game play and IRL, to find the time.

I was curious about a beserker rush, I never played Denmark before.

Also my thuggish strategy is to build an army and go to war, I usually play smaller maps than this. Any other building is for essentials only.

But here, the beserkers are late, so my idea was a 3 city start up and maybe even a quick NC. I dont know how long the beserkers will be viable for at this speed, but they are quite the fighting unit, especially if get them early.

SIP is attractive, I was considering Tradition and SIP to open, and then into Honor. I decided instead to settle the gold and go with a Liberty opening to get the free worker.

scout, scout, scout, settler, settler. the scouts had got my capital to 3 pop, i had 40 culture, upgrades, I seemed to get a lot of ruins and only 1 barb camp map, from memory.

I had 20 faith from a ruin to give me a pantheon, one with nature was appealing as I intended to settle both natural wonders. But with so many sheep and an incense, and after much protestation from the vikings, who wanted to party, i went for the goddess of festivals. Got to keep the horde happy on their travels

Remember, I am still fairly new to civ 5, and to this strategy, so fair to assume I am making it up as I go along at this point. I have a religion, went tithe and pagodas.

I have a gold and happiness, I am not at war with anyone other than england as I am trading with them. I havent even built a caravan yet. I bought lots of land tiles and sold the wine for 7gpt.

I stole 1 worker from a CS and one barb worker capture, I could have returned for an good culture alliance, but kept it, to work the sheep.

I am now rushing to get my iron hooked up as swordsmen become available.

I am trying a new army strategy, normally I would spam archers. and upgrade them up to xbows, but this game I relied on getting my promoted scouts back and built a couple of archers. 1 chariot and more warriors than usual, assuming they will upgrade to beserkers when i get there. I have enough gold to upgrade them to swordsmen in about 7 turns or so. I do wonder if i should have built more warriors instead of infrastructure, I guess I will find out. I am even thinking of the pyramids hehe, roads and improvements, but really, lots of vikings will be better at fighting my way through the map. For a quick victory, 2 armies, east and west, but can I manage that? My next target is shaka, for sure.

Once I had comp bows I went after england, easy first city capture and I have stacks of happiness. I dont know whether to finish england off or let them keep 1 city, I think its less warmonger penalty but I dont want Lizzy in a tizzy behind my back..

Plan is to build boatloads of beserkers and go viking! but do I need some calm before the storm?

Shaka has been threatening me all game and he denounced me, but he seems weak, at this stage.

Turn 72.

 

[lerrocco]

My map is glitchy. I have mountain tiles which arent mountains. My bowman can fire at the barb camp as that is a grassland hex, as shown by the resource icons, rather than a mountain.

And there is a mountain top ruin, at the bottom of the screenshot, is this another glitch?

London fell without mounting any defense whatsoever, I have Stonehenge and the Temple of Artemis now.

Im sending my bowmen north of Nottingham, to fire across the water, and on their way to say hello to Shaka.

 

[Nizef]

My map is glitchy. I have mountain tiles which arent mountains. My bowman can fire at the barb camp as that is a grassland hex, as shown by the resource icons, rather than a mountain.

And there is a mountain top ruin, at the bottom of the screenshot, is this another glitch?

.

The kind of glitches you describe are (unfortunately) quite common on Lakes maps. I have learned to live with it by letting the tile yield show. This way you can determine what type of tile it is regardless of the look of the tile. But I admit that is a little bit irritating.

 

[jrwh]

3 city Liberty opener. Settled Uluru with the free Liberty settler, hard built one immediately after to settle a city south. Lots of food and a couple Calendar luxes down there, but no production, so I overlapped it with the iron and gold in the capital to share some hammers. No need to settle the iron west as there is plenty in cap + Uluru city.

Started out with scout->monument->scout->granary->scout->3 archers->the settler->Pyramids. Was going to skip shrine and religion altogether anyway from the get go except for Uluru showing up. Monument->library->granary->barracks->workshop in the expands. Also grabbed Oracle in the cap so I could get the one free policy closer to 50% increased xp on my troops, as I went Honor after finishing Liberty (planted a scientist with the finisher). Gold purchased a workshop in the cap so it can build Heroic Epic instead. Will be full-time Berserker and Xbow production til hopefully the end of the game after the current buildings finish. May squeeze in some forges at some point, but don't want to delay troop production any longer.

Accidentally let England settle Nottingham towards me along the coast, was one turn away from body blocking the only legal settle location with a warrior when they nabbed it. So I had to take that and raze it on my way to London. I decided not to DoW them immediately and steal their worker, even though the city was very weak, as I was getting a hefty (at the time) 6 beakers per turn from two of their trade routes.

Went quick NC before Construction as I gold-purchased several tiles in all three of my cities to help get them going, and wouldn't have had gold for early Comp Bow upgrades. I still rolled through Nottingham and London (captured turn 87) easily once I upgraded them, in spite of the chokey and rough terrain. Will annex and flip London once Heroic Epic completes, and likely send that initial army towards Onondaga next while I build up a second army at home to move towards Sweden.

Seems like my start is a bit slower than some of the others posted so far, but hopefully I catch up with full-time troop production starting soon. It feels like I'm being too greedy with the sim-city.

The special embarkation abilities of the Berserker would come in very handy on this map, but idk if and when I'm gonna have time to research Optics. London did build GL for me, so I'd have an extra movement point if I can find a way to squeeze that in.

I have the same mountain-ruin next to London as the comment above.

Spoiler :

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Ugg. Accidentally lost my post by navigating away (rather than opening a new tab). This will have to be an abbreviated post.

Before Turn 63

Spoiler :

SIP - agreed with others in Announcement thread so felt no need to add anything. After moving warrior, I did consider settling on the gold instead (3rd-ring cattle, stone in 2nd ring rather than 3rd), but decided to SIP anyway.

Planned on a 4-city liberty (7 unique lux + Uluru), but after seeing how bad the production was for the sugar/silk city, I canceled that one in favor of 3-city liberty. Between sessions, I considered transitioning to Piety but decided to stick with a more standard Liberty CB rush. That's what I did for consentient's Warmonger Challenge Series Game 1 map, so I'm trying to correct some mistakes (failed on one - don't have enough blockers to protect CBs). Lost the Pyramids but only put one or two turns into it.

Religion - none yet, but I'm leading a CS faith quest. I fully expect a religion and will consider Monasteries to supplement Goddess of Festivals. But, I'll probably take a happiness building first. Suleiman (Piety) has founded, but no one else yet.

Tech - Prioritized Construction. Went for Sailing/Optics right after Construction. The extra embarked movement should be useful (can certainly help a simple warrior or even a scout capture cities).

War Path - Decided to attack Liz first - would suck to have my Uluru city Ship of the Lined. Plus, might as well try to put her down before longbows. Plus, no need to give Gustavus easy great generals (at least, not before I can ally both CS between us).

Unfortunately ...

Turn 63

Spoiler :

T63 Screenshot

Spoiler :

About 2 turns before I DOW Elizabeth (was waiting for Optics), I see a Zulu settler. Shaka was already hostile criticizing my army (was 7th but 3rd now - Shaka is 2nd). He denounced after that. I continued on my way, but then this changes everything. I have to take that settler now since I can. Looks like Shaka is the first victim - or maybe I am.

Wish I hadn't declined Hiawatha's DOF (thought he might be second for the England army).

 

[lerrocco]

I see from the other posts that I neglect culture too much. I havent built the monuments that others do, and I am not finishing policy trees.

I think my compromise re units vs buildings wasnt quite correct.

I also think I should have gone for Shaka sooner..

Killing England was another bad decision, my trading days are gone now. I would still be trading if I had left 1 english city.

It was more effort to kill one Impi than it was to take the Zulu city. And the Impi seem to heal really well too! With hindsight, The Zulus would have been a much better first target, not only to take them when they were weak but my English adventure required too much troop movement, A second army could have dealt with England later. I lied to Shaka about not attacking him. That was a big negative for public relations too, I am genuinely on my own for the rest of the game.

But I keep on. The game takes me a long while to organise my troops, and I am neglecting city micro management.

Still, I learned a lot this game and will keep on. I will finish the Zulus, or they will end my game. I quite enjoyed the early set up and the SIM play, but think i should have build more units.

I lost 1 swordsman taking my first Zulu city, the catapult plus city bombardments are quite heavy!

 

[MOBAgamesVeteran]

Turn 104 I build 4 cities and captured 1 from England. Capital settled in place, 2nd city next to Uluru, 3rd on sugar south and 4th west.

Build order: scout, scout, monument, warrior, settler, granary.

I discovered 6 ruins and got pop, tech, culture, map, gold and culture.

Opened with liberty, grabbed free settler and worker, then I switched to piety.

For pantheon i took one with nature to get +10 faith from uluru. Next I chose tithe, pagodas and holy warriors beliefs.

Little slow start compared to others. Probably I should've declare on England sooner. Anyway I hope to get few military units from decent faith output and start rolling with berserkers.
Next target London and then Hiawatha or Shaka.

Spoiler Turn 104 :

 

[lerrocco]

Little slow start compared to others. Probably I should've declare on England sooner. Anyway I hope to get few military units from decent faith output and start rolling with berserkers.
Next target London and then Hiawatha or Shaka.

Actually, you have a really good base, a much better one than my game.
I considered the faith route also, this is a good map for that.

The early war is easy as there are no real defences to contend with Usually the quick expanse grinds to a halt for some reason, lack of units, or tech. Then there is a secondary build from the new 'starting position'. That's what I was hoping for here. I wont get beserkers for another 12 turns (you have them already! ).. But I hope to get the Zulu capital and consolidate, the NC comes online at the same time. I just detoured for optics.

I hope to have an easier time with Shaka. To take on his impis in the later game is more challenging for sure.

 

[jrwh]

I see from the other posts that I neglect culture too much. I havent built the monuments that others do, and I am not finishing policy trees.

You can ignore monuments in the cookie-cutter Tradition build, as you get free monuments from policies quickly enough, and Trad opener provides enough culture to get you through the first few policies until then. For every other opener, it's typical to start with scout->monument in the capital, and a monument immediately in any expands. Not only is the 2 culture per turn necessary for earning policies, but your city borders also do not expand at all without culture being produced by the city. So you will never pick up new tiles to work without a monument.

 

[lerrocco]

Last from me in here, Its T114, but nothing has changed since my last post.

It was going to be bloody, but Shaka thought he was beat and offered me a peace treaty with his second city. I took the city and razed it.

General planted a citadel and stole 2 gold and an an incense, which incensed Shaka. I surrounded Ulundi, all my comp bows in range. It was still going to be bloody after the 10 turns. He had units in every tile around the city. eek.
I waited, built a monument in each city, built the NC. Built a circus.
I upgraded all my swordsmen to beserkers.
Enhanced my religion and now can buy units with faith. That's a bonus.

Then 1 turn before the peace treaty expired Shaka withdrew all his troops. Wow. The biggest bonus in civ 5 is the stupid AI

Ulundi fell easily in 2 turns. I lost a comp bow. A beserker can kill a swordsman in 1 hit, that's impressive. The Impi still take some beating down though.

Ok. I will leave it there. I will play on, but cant do that now. I will record the loss or victory in the afters thread.
I am troop building now.

Plan is straight into Rome with the army and then see what sort of secondary army I have assembled in the meantime. I feel happier with my position now Shaka is gone, and Im going to finish him off, my reputation cant get any worse.

Into money and happiness issues now, need to resolve those.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Probably spoiler safe for me to read other posts in this thread, but still holding off for a bit. Want to update though ...

Turn 80 Update

Spoiler :

The first victim was not me!

T80 Screenshot

Spoiler :

First war done. No capital, but Shaka offered Umgungundlovu for peace. Looks like Caesar will finish Shaka completely though (paid Shaka to war Caesar, Hiawatha, Liz, and Suleiman), so I shouldn't need to worry about Shaka recovering. Of course, that puts me right in line for Caesar to DOW me, so when I resume the game, I intend to pay Ashurbanipal to DOW Caesar - 1 lux and 5 gpt, I think. Might be a bit more gpt. I hope that will give me enough time to handle Liz and London before I need to turn my attention back towards Caesar and Ashurbanipal (perhaps via Hiawatha).

Timing:
* Liberty - T13 open, T34 collective rule, T74 finisher (engineer)
* Expansion - T38 Aarhus (Uluru), T43 Kaupang (northern wine/marble tundra)
* Tech - T57 Construction, T65 Optics, T76 Philosophy (T77 National College)
* Religion - T41 Pantheon (Goddess of Festivals), T66 Religion (Initiation Rites, Monasteries)
* Wonders - T78 Mausoleum - lost Pyramids T57, a couple turns into Oracle

Only reason I built the Mausoleum is because I didn't have anything else to build. Was at the unit cap and didn't want to build a water mill because of the 2 gpt upkeep. Same for Oracle, but I might abandon that now in favor of barracks and then a few units.

I did get a general from the war, and I'm about to annex some sugar in the area of my abandoned southern expansion. Can't quite get the silk too, but that is an option for a future general.

Revised Social Policy Plan:
Not sure why my happiness is so good, so I'll probably regret this later (especially since I didn't take religion happiness), but decided to go Honor for my second tree - at least to the bonus XP. Due to religion, my culture is way too fast for a timely Commerce entry. Gold should be good due to all these wine tiles, so maybe I don't need the gold from Commerce. Number of units is lagging due to the unit cap (low growth), so I'm going to try to have faster promotions.

War Plans:
First army coming back for Liz as originally planned. That should give me a good enough unit cap to complete a second army to head west for Gustavus (and then Suleiman) while the first army heads back East towards Hiawatha/Caesar/Ashurbanipal. (And maybe Shaka - no guarantee that Caesar will finish the job.)

 

[TheFinalChiTown]

Writing around T100, but it’ll be more interesting to talk about what happened earlier.

This screenshot is from T78. You can see my obvious struggles in taking Nottingham. Holy cow, 22 strength and city walls?? Give me a break, Lizzy. This exactly what you did to me in our recent Germany domination game. Safe to say, she is my nemesis.

My biggest mistake was allowing her to forward settle me. I should’ve known this could happen when she went liberty. Oh well. Fast forward, this city is on a hill, surrounded by three hills and a jungle. Extremely difficult to siege. It took until T81 for the capture. I lost a warrior, a comp bow, and 1-2 chariot archers in the process.

I definitely should have attacked Gustav first. I easily captured Stockholm with my second army.

Start was 4-city liberty. First settler was bought. Second from the policy. Third produced. On T90 I built Great Wall with the liberty-finisher GE. Looking to win around the time I get X-bows.

Screenshot:

Spoiler :

 

[RuntyBassoon143]

SIP - scout scout monument scout worker archer archer settler settler granary archer archer archer watermill

Expos: monument granary/watermill archers library shrine colosseum

Pottery AH archery calendar wheel masonry math* construction IW writing philosophy

* Delayed construction because low on gold for upgrades so just build some more archers.

2 - find uluru and free pop ruin
4 - free tech mining
5 - culture ruin, open liberty
9 - map ruin
11 - free tech BW
16 - adopt republic
24 - steal worker Sweden
25 - pillage caravan
27 - steal worker England
28 - steal worker Hanoi
30 - peace with Sweden
31 - adopt collective rule, will start building settlers next
37 - found Aarhus, buy uluru
40 - pantheon One with Nature
42 - found Kaupang
43 - steal worker England and make peace
46 - found Ribe, steal worker from Hanoi
47 - make peace Hanoi
51 - adopt citizenship
63 - declare war England
66 - adopt meritocracy (only a few turns from a natural Golden Age)
66 - found religion initiation rites monasteries
71 - capture York
78 - capture London
80 - finish Liberty, plant GS

 

[raider980]

SiP. Build order: Scout, Monument, Scout, Shrine.

Ancient ruins were pretty bad. First was great - Pop. Then Map, Animal Husbandry (which I was already researching and only had a couple more turns left), Barbs, Map.

T28 I made a fatal error I think. I DoW Liz and Shaka for settlers. And then promptly got killed and lost the settler back to Liz. And the worker I got back from Shaka was so far away that he never made it back home. I just used him to explore until he was captured by barbs.

Shaka refuses to make peace. I was thinking I could have a Berzerker v Impi war; but I failed to see the iron by Copenhagen so haven't improved it yet; and its going to take a while to get those Berzerkers online so those aren't good odds. The Impi haven't started coming yet but they will, they will.