TSG 253 Opening Actions Thread

[Nizef]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[Megalou]

The Civilopedia's lack of clarity annoys me. It says nothing of moai needing to be built in coastal tiles. Ironically, the civilopedia does state that half of the statues on Easter Island stayed inland at the Rano Raraku quarry.

Consulting the Civilization Wiki, I ran head-on into my next rules problem as it stated erroneously that "The +1 Movement bonus from this policy tree also applies to embarked units.". I would probably not have picked the Exploration opener after completingTradition, if I had known this was false, although the +3 hammers for coastal towns in the next policy was quite alluring.

Peaceful start, although I did snatch a worker from Inca. I also tried to use my religious CS neighbour as a worker farm, but I only got 3 workers and then they seemed to stop building them.

Foci included food cargo, Mt Fuji (1st town), Great Library for philosophy and an early National College (immediately after Great Library actually, although there was a settler prebuild before I started Great library) and a bunch of other wonders. The pantheon was the 15% wonder discount for ancient and classical wonders (Monument to the Gods). Then I got a religion, and picked the +2 faith per wonder as Follower Belief. I want the Swords into plowshares too, and I will surely get it when enhancing, since the AI never (?) pick it.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

It's turn 102 and so far my game does not feel super fast. I started with scout-scout-worker. I like to get a worker early in case there is salt to improve. I wonder, has the salt been added to the map to make the start location a little more palatable, or is it a natural outlier from Pacal's regional? After the worker, I was not sure how to proceed. Straight into settlers, a shrine first or maybe a granary even? Having met Jerusalem, I went for the shrine, even though there was no pantheon that really appealed to me. I got first pantheon and picked God King; perhaps One with Nature would have been better, but the capital is pretty bad and it could use some help. After the shrine, I either built or purchased a Maoi warrior, to get some tributes going, and then into settlers.

Given Polynesia's increased mobility, I briefly considered Liberty, but I did not see that many city locations, especially when Shaka founded Umgungundlovu near a spot where I would have liked to put a city, so I ended up going 5-city tradition. Trying to get my game going, I faced the challenge of not having enough workers. On Deity pangaea, you can often get a lot of early worker steals, but on Prince this proved more tricky. I got one reasonably early steal from both Zulu and China, but after that the steals dried up a bit. I could have stolen from either CS on the main island, but they just had barb camp quests when their workers came out, so I let them be.

As you can see from the screen shot, my NC is a little late. In part, this is because I prioritized lighthouses over libraries, but also because the capital sucks. I did manage to build Hanging Gardens, so at least I have a garden, but I'm not sure where and how I'm going to build the wonders I would like. One plan is to let other civs build them, and do a late galleas rush to capture some capitals. Not sure how well that will go, though; few capitals are really open to early naval attack, and I don't want to go compass until after education, metal casting, and maybe even Renaissance, depending on how the social policies pan out.

 

[Megalou]

It's turn 102 and so far my game does not feel super fast. I started with scout-scout-worker. I like to get a worker early in case there is salt to improve. I wonder, has the salt been added to the map to make the start location a little more palatable, or is it a natural outlier from Pacal's regional? After the worker, I was not sure how to proceed. Straight into settlers, a shrine first or maybe a granary even? Having met Jerusalem, I went for the shrine, even though there was no pantheon that really appealed to me. I got first pantheon and picked God King; perhaps One with Nature would have been better, but the capital is pretty bad and it could use some help. After the shrine, I either built or purchased a Maoi warrior, to get some tributes going, and then into settlers.

Given Polynesia's increased mobility, I briefly considered Liberty, but I did not see that many city locations, especially when Shaka founded Umgungundlovu near a spot where I would have liked to put a city, so I ended up going 5-city tradition. Trying to get my game going, I faced the challenge of not having enough workers. On Deity pangaea, you can often get a lot of early worker steals, but on Prince this proved more tricky. I got one reasonably early steal from both Zulu and China, but after that the steals dried up a bit. I could have stolen from either CS on the main island, but they just had barb camp quests when their workers came out, so I let them be.

As you can see from the screen shot, my NC is a little late. In part, this is because I prioritized lighthouses over libraries, but also because the capital sucks. I did manage to build Hanging Gardens, so at least I have a garden, but I'm not sure where and how I'm going to build the wonders I would like. One plan is to let other civs build them, and do a late galleas rush to capture some capitals. Not sure how well that will go, though; few capitals are really open to early naval attack, and I don't want to go compass until after education, metal casting, and maybe even Renaissance, depending on how the social policies pan out.

One Maori warrior was enough to demand tribute? For surely the starting Maori warrior went off far away to discover the world?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

For surely the starting Maori warrior went off far away to discover the world?

No, my original warrior had returned to the mainland, while the scouts went out to explore the world.

 

[Megalou]

No, my original warrior had returned to the mainland, while the scouts went out to explore the world.

Mine died while getting ready to leave the Mayan continent, to go back. But what I had in mind was the fending off of barbs rather than Extortion. Interesting.

 

[Rhodro]

I did not get any worker steals, i made a worker myself after scout to improve the salt asap.
I got temple of artemis. Sadly pacal just got oracle. Hope to get hanging gardens soon.
Oh and barbs killed my cargo ship to samoa I even had an archer close but couldn't kill it in time.

 

[raider980]

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
Even though this is not a CV, I wanted to settle cities with the most potential for Moai possible just because Moai are awesome.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Moved the warrior west and the settler east as planned in the Announcement. Since I hadn't tested to see whether I could build a Moai on the sheep in my practice game yet, I decided to stay and settle by the river next to the Salt. Build order was Scout, Moai Warrior, Monument, Worker, Scout. Ruins were pretty good: Pop, Map, Culture, Tech, Pop.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions? -- - What were your initial priorities? - - What Social Policies did you choose?
Small continents meant there should be some good opportunities to beat the AI to other lands and also should have increased Moai spots I figured. So I went Liberty, with a detour to open Tradition after getting the Liberty settler so my borders would expand to all those nice Moai spots more quickly. My explorers went out early into the ocean in search of those lands and found some good ones including a super sweet location with massive Moai potential on the Mt. Kili Island.

- What tech path did you follow and why? - - What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them? - - Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Standard tech path, except I'm heading for the tech that lets you build Borobudur and Hagia Sofia earlier than normal so I could boost my non-faith producing religion. Only wonder I have so far is ToA; and I'm building Stonehenge, which I may not get because its quite late I think to be trying for that on T91, especially with Pacal in the game. My religion so far is the pantheon of hammers from sea resources since there is a lot of fish around; Tithe and Pagodas. Haven't enhanced yet.

Its T91. Fun, relaxing game so far. I like settling lots of cities so that's what I'm going to try and do and then build Moai as far as the eye can see. I may not even build the NC; I want to get more cities out soon and as soon as Honolulu grows in 3-turns I'm going to churn out 4 settlers and head to the nearest islands. Hmm, just noticed in my screenshot that Stonehenge is going to take 9 turns; not sure if I want to wait that long to get my settlers out.

I know that my science will always be less than others and my cities smaller, but dang, it alwasy amazes me just how far I am behind the other players who post here. I have 28 science at T91; Black Vegetable has 71, and Rhodro has 77 at T100! And my cities are size 9, 4, 4 and 3 compared to the others who's cities are twice as big! I'll never figure out how that happens.

Spoiler T91 :

Spoiler Future city locations on nearby islands with potential Moai tiles :

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

it always amazes me just how far I am behind the other players who post here

Getting cities down quickly is probably a big part of that. I normally don't like to build wonders before getting all my settlers out. On prince, Great Library is a little tempting because you can't get it on higher difficulties, but I rarely have the time for it, unless maybe you have a very strong capital with lots of forest chops. My capital did not build any early wonders at all, except for Hanging Gardens, which I sort of needed for the garden because I had settled in place, so off river.

 

[billybgame]

I'm like Raider980 in almost always going for wide civs over tall. Matter of fact, tall philosophy for science is something I have yet to grasp. I'll probably end up with a terrible win compared to some, but alas.....

So I have 5 cities on my 50 AD save when last played. All fit onto home island. SiP and realized was tragic that couldn't build next to Marble river, to the W..but still took first settler that way and settled on coastal hill. Then due E of Honolulu and 3rd city in middle so as to not waste a bunch of jungle tiles that are helpful for science. Then worked my way up the E side of island for my last two. Knew there were some nearby worthy island build spots. But also, right around 1 AD, Shaka had the nerve to plop a city on a tiny spot SW of Honolulu. Guess I don't care that much if he's that stupid, but he may need to be watched.

I was beaten out for G Library, but did build Pyramids.

I went Liberty due to my far flung build plans. Tradition next.

Got first pantheon and first religion and can build Pagodas and Mosques. Took the pantheon for culture from jungles. Was tempted for +1 fishing boats though.

All the AI civs were already discovered by this time, most of the C/S, and much of the map exposed. Crazy how good Polynesia is at this type of game and exploration.

 

[sebtanic]

I know that my science will always be less than others and my cities smaller, but dang, it alwasy amazes me just how far I am behind the other players who post here. I have 28 science at T91; Black Vegetable has 71, and Rhodro has 77 at T100! And my cities are size 9, 4, 4 and 3 compared to the others who's cities are twice as big! I'll never figure out how that happens.

My first playthrough was more or less like yours. I don't have the autosaves anymore, but my capital was maybe size 8 or 9 at turn 100.

So this time, I pursued a different approach to the GOTM than usual: I knew I would have won eventually, but not in a competitive time frame. So instead of finishing my first playthrough, I got bored after reseaching Electricity.

I decided to start over and learn how to have a capital size 15-17 by turn 100, like the fastest players here in this thread.

By the 3rd attempt, it worked out:

The key is not just plopping down expos quickly (though that's a very important part), but also prioritzing food trade routes and Lighthouses. Which means the expos build only Granaries and Lighthouses before the Library.

You also need a very early Worker to improve luxury ressources, so I built one right after the initial scout. First lux to improve is obviously the Salt near the starting spot.

Capital build order (from memory, so might not be 100% accurate):
Scout, Worker, Archer (bought), Shrine, Scout, Settler, Settler, Settler, Cargo Ship, Lighthouse, Granary, Cargo Ship, Trireme (to protect my food trade routes), Library, Writer's Guild (because the libraries in expos werent' yet ready), NC

Expo 1+2 build order: Granary, Lighthouse, Library

Expo 3 build order: Lighthouse, Library

After the library, the expos built Work Boats and Workers.

Result at turn 100:

• 60 science
• City sizes: 17, 8, 7, 6
• 11 turns to NC
• No wonders yet

 

[raider980]

The key is not just plopping down expos quickly (though that's a very important part), but also prioritzing food trade routes and Lighthouses. Which means the expos build only Granaries and Lighthouses before the Library.

You also need a very early Worker to improve luxury ressources, so I built one right after the initial scout. First lux to improve is obviously the Salt near the starting spot.

Capital build order (from memory, so might not be 100% accurate):
Scout, Worker, Archer (bought), Shrine, Scout, Settler, Settler, Settler, Cargo Ship, Lighthouse, Granary, Cargo Ship, Trireme (to protect my food trade routes), Library, Writer's Guild (because the libraries in expos werent' yet ready), NC

Expo 1+2 build order: Granary, Lighthouse, Library

Expo 3 build order: Lighthouse, Library

After the library, the expos built Work Boats and Workers.

I might have to try this in a game. My problem is it all goes counter to my natural instincts.

I think getting out expos is the least of my problems. Yes, I am a little behind the turn times that others are but not that much.

One of my biggest issues is I know I need an early worker. But I feel like I need to build other things first like a couple of scouts, monument, shrine, granary; not to mention some units. And on higher levels I can never seem to steal workers like others do. I am definitely always behind in workers.

And I know that I should run food trade routes. But my instinct is to use them as they were intended: for actual trade routes. And I never have any money so that just compounds my natural inclination.

Plus, I hate chopping forests just for the production. It seems like a lame mechanic that you just get free hammers with no downside. And it makes your lands look atrociously ugly down the line.

I have learned the importance of having high food yield tiles in the first ring. I used to build more for luxury location but now I do tend to pay more attention to food. So that's a positive.

 

[jrwh]

First decision was to move two tiles right to get the capital on the river hill.

So, I wanted to try something different here than the usual Pottery opener. Given that it's low difficulty, and Polynesia can move around pretty quickly, I wanted to open with a bunch of units to get tributes, buy some workers and perhaps a settler, and tribute some workers as well. Figured it wouldn't be hard to keep top army early on, and the CS wouldn't have early workers to steal like on higher difficulties, so this could be a way to get free workers faster. Hoped to discover a nat wonder (which worked out), but planned on building multiple shrines later regardless to facilitate religion.

Once I got to see the map a bit, I decided I wanted a fifth city after NC, and it became my goal to tribute enough gold to purchase the settler while building NC, so I could plop it down asap, and also not stagnate any growth. I got the timing down for that almost perfectly; I could've planted Raiatea just one turn earlier if I had the tribute gold faster. I also purchased a worker, two spearmen, and two triremes with tribute gold prior to the settler. And tributed some workers, as well as stealing Zulu's first settler on turn 30, and China's first worker on turn 32.

Spoiler Tech Path :

Mining, AH (from ruin), BW, Pottery, Calendar, Writing, Sailing, Masonry, Optics, Philosophy, beeline Education (currently 12 turns away)

I purchased a worker on turn 17, so having Mining immediately allowed me to improve the salt, and follow that up with a ton of chops during my settler-producing phase. BW beeline allowed me to purchase a spearman after the worker to keep the tributes rolling, and I was hoping for iron in the cap to boost settler production, alas. Lux techs obviously, decently early library in the cap, and I had time to squeeze out a pair of cargo ships and a lighthouse just in time for NC to be ready. Thinking I'm gonna go straight into Acoustics after Education so I can open Rati asap, and have been delaying researching Construction or doing any Moai placement until then.

Spoiler Social Policies :

Full Tradition. It's looking like I'm going to have to put a filler point somewhere, likely Commerce, before reaching Rati.

Spoiler Religion :

Took One With Nature for a pantheon since I wanted faith generation, and didn't see anything better. Culture will be available later from Moai. Got first religion and picked Tithe/Mosques, to no one's surprise. Just popped out a missionary since China got second religion, and is pressuring my nat wonder city. I need my pantheon there most of all.

Spoiler Capital Build Order :

3x scout, warrior, scout, 3x settler, granary, library, 2x cargo ship, lighthouse, NC

Lots of scouts for both tributes and ruin-finding. A second warrior to help with the tributes. Another scout. I did lose one to a barb ambush when he grabbed what seemed like an unguarded ruin. NC finished turn 89, trying to work on happiness and gold now. No wonders yet, a few like 7-turn-ToA look tempting, but I'm still wanting some infrastructure at the moment. Hoping to try Oracle in another ~20 turns when I can put the free policy into Rati, but that might be wishful thinking, as the early wonders are starting to go.

Spoiler Expands :

Samoa turn 33, Tonga turn 41, Nuku Hiva turn 49, Raiatea turn 90

Samoa and Tonga went granary, library, lighthouse, shrine. Fed the capital with trade routes, swapped Samoa's to kickstart the freshly-planted city for its second round. Kabul expanded to the incense one turn before I planted Samoa, or I would've bought it.

Nuku Hiva went library, lighthouse, granary, shrine.

Chopped out a quick monument in Raiatea, and got halfway through the granary. Those plains tiles are now freed up for freshwater farms when the borders expand. Will need to get it an aqueduct as soon as I get the tech.

I'm thinking I need more faith than what I'm getting from OWN, so shrines and probably temples will be a thing.

I wish I planted Tonga on the marble instead of where I did now that I'm looking at everyone else's screenshots. Would get the extra quarry to the south (which would be great for Mausoleum), plus all those flat jungle tiles to the east for university science. Idk why I didn't even consider that as a spot. Oops.

Spoiler Between turns 7 and 83, I tributed :

Jerusalem x5, Singapore x5, Kabul x3, Wellington x3, Almaty x2

I'm at war with Kabul, stole a couple workers from them immediately after tributing one. I'm slooowly grinding out a general (about halfway there) so I can steal their incense and oasis, and I figure since they're gonna be pissed at me anyway when I steal their tiles, and they were already deeply pissed at me for tributing the worker, I might as well use them for worker steals and GG points.

Later on, when they calm down, I'll find some island with a barb camp and give away their workers, then recapture and "return" them for a sweet cultural ally.

Spoiler Turn 100 Screenshot :