TSG 257 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[raider980]

Before the game I wanted to try to use the Aztec effectively utilizing their uniques. So I wanted to open Honor and then go Tradition and build plenty of Jaguars to go after the raging barbs.

Moved the initial Jag to the north and saw a third lux that I could get by moving and settling there, so I did. Not sure if this was actually a good move because it limited my expansions. Build order was Jag, Scout, Jag, Monument. I forwent a Shrine because I didn't feel like battling the AI missionaries; I was just going to let them spread their religion to me. However, I got a pantheon without even trying because I did some quest to befriend LaVenta so I took faith from Salt. And on T98, I actually got a Great Prophet so I guess I'll get a religion.

Things were going along well very early on. Opened Honor and was going out to kill barbs. Then, bam; Oh No! Atilla! The last two games we had with Atilla as a neighbor I died before the game really even started. A few turns later, Oh no! Genghis! Great.

Edit. Oh I debated whether to play it safe and settle my first expand near my capital or to go further and get Mt. Kili. Well I couldn't resist and went for Mt. Kili. Could be my first and worst mistake.

At T98 I have finished Tradition and gotten another policy in Honor thanks to all the raging barb culture. But things are not going that well. Genghis is trying to replicate his real world counterparts' expansion; he's already got 7 cities - including 2 captured CS and one city he got from Atilla in a peace deal. A peace deal that was brought about by me because I bribed him to attack Atilla twice. The first time, T45, I gave him Salt and then a barb pilliaged my Salt - and immeditately they made peace and I also got my gpt I gave him back. Coincidence? Or does losing your lux you bribed the AI with force the AI to make peace? That was not good because they barely even fought. A bit later on T82 Genghis had a contingent of troops around my capital so I bribed him with Salt and some gold again to attack Atilla. He destroyed Atillia's army and got a city in the peace deal. I only have two cities, Atilla only has one city and Genghis has seven! This is a dangerous situation and I don't have the army or the production or the happiness to deal with a rampaging Genghis Khan. I fear the end is nigh.

Spoiler T52 - The Mongolian Horde :

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I won't be submitting an entry for GotM this since it's my own map (with some minor modifications from the GotM team), but I still wanted to play it again. My setup is quite similar to @raider980 as I also moved two tiles for the cap. Not just for the third lux, but also to get a monster cap with all the salt in range. I also got a pantheon without going for a shrine, and also took Earth Mother. I was a little bit unlucky this game that it did not get a religion from it. Around turn 75 the final religion was founded when I had 197 faith. So close but no cigar. In hindsight I could have pushed faith a bit harder by still building a shrine in the capital, and I might have been a bit more alert from a barb camp quest from a religious city state. I'm always a bit sad when I can't get religious community in my cities, and of course not having a religion of your own can make it more difficult to faith purchase scientists at the end of the game.

If this had been a serious attempt from me, I would not have risked building Temple of Artemis before doing any settlers, As it was, I got it on turn 37, and then I went into two settlers. My first settler was sort of in time: I managed to beat a Mongolian settler to Mt. Kilimanjaro by 1 turn (of course, I don't know exactly where it was headed), but I did not settle the location I wanted to. My aim was to go east for the wine, and then settle another city in between to get all the salt. As it was, I now have a curious coastal settle without any unique luxuries.

So my build order was scout-scout-jaguar-granary-ToA-settler-settler, and in between I believed I purchased two archers, with peace deal money from The Netherlands and Indonesia. My first policy was honor, then into tradition (finished it T75-ish), and then when I got Oracle I had a choice to make: continue into honor or pick something like Patronage. I went for left-side honor, since I wanted to do science by conquest this game.

The screenshot shows I am warring Mongolia, which may seem odd, but I could not have him as threat at my back (consisting of two flatland cities) while I went after William for example. I actually came quite close to losing (or at least losing cities which would result in me quitting the game): around turn 60 my gpt was still negative, I was still greeding wonders in the capital (ToA, HG, Oracle), and there was a sizeable Mongolian army at my borders. As for @raider980 , my first instigated war between Atilla and Mongolia did not last long, and Genghis was spoiling for another fight. He was Friendly, but that does not mean too much with Mongolia. Selling my luxuries for gpt I just managed to scrounge enough to finance a war between Mongolia and Carthage. Back to turn 100, my gpt is better, and I got involved Genghis involved in three other wars before declaring myself.

 

[raider980]

Good grief Black Vegetable you're so far ahead of me; Tripple my science, 3 cities and the smallest is bigger than my Capital. Man I suck

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Good grief Black Vegetable you're so far ahead of me; Tripple my science, 3 cities and the smallest is bigger than my Capital. Man I suck

Don't say that. Also, I must have played hundreds of games as Aztec, and getting Temple of Artemis really helps. Anyway, there is always a better player. I estimate that the quickest victory will be 30 turns faster than mine.

 

[qontroL]

I meant to post my T100 here, but I got so carried away because I was having so much fun with this one that I kept clicking Next Turn ;x

The Mongols settled a city right next to me extremely early (see city ruins next to Texcoco), which meant that I had no choice but to take it out. Besides that the game has been pretty crazy. I think the Mongols hold the Huns capital, and the Huns hold the Spanish capital.
Ormus has been my ally all game long, because I was able to flip a worker 3 times very early on.

After I discovered Pottery from an Ancient Ruin I decided to take a gamble and push straight to Archery and I rushed the Temple of Artemis whilst buying an archer for homeland defense. After grabbing a Religion I also took the extra food from that too, leading to my population completely exploding. Later I also got my hands on the Hanging Gardens and The Oracle in my capital. I was supposed to get the Sistine Chapel as well, but I spawned a Great Scientist on the exact turn I was going to spawn my Great Engineer, which annoyed me a bit, and now I am too scared to build it because I see it being built in Carthage.
I've had some pretty bad luck with spying for tech, because each time my spying hasn't gone unnoticed, but despite that I am already 3rd in the Technology demographics, and I do intend to at least wipe out Carthage when I push ahead.

Spoiler :

Screen shot to turn 149:

Moderator Action: Welcome to Game of the Month. When you post a screenshot this far past turn 100, it may contain map information that can spoil another player's game. I have placed the screenshot in spoiler tags to hide it in order to prevent that from happening. Glad you are enjoying the game, leif

 

[Megalou]

A string of mistakes and poor luck made a disgusting cocktail.

Great Library was built by China on turn 35 which was a turn too soon. I wanted Great Lib in order to squeeze in a very early National College, and this time I popped Pottery really early. But this is the second time straight that I failed at it! Should I not have built a second jaguar before starting? In hindsight yes, but marble wasn't going to be hooked up during the jaguar build and the city was only size 3. At least I could use the excess money to buy a settler who claimed the salt and wheat to the east.

I also lost Oracle to Huns, only getting MoM from the ancient period.

I managed to get a solid alliance with one city state, La Venta, a few turns before it was captured by Mongolia. They also forward settled a town just 6 tiles from Tenochtitlan. Working with the Huns, I then crippled the Mongols by capturing their forward city as well as La Venta, so they are down to just one city. But this took time and resources. I considered liberating La Venta, but kept it because I liked its stats and improvements and the surviving buildings turned out nice. I should probably have burnt the Mongolian town.

No religion because of the viciously imperialistic Mongols.

Four cities at turn 100, although not as well placed as in the two previous maps immediately above. . I'll post my map when I get home.

Not a good start, but maybe it will turn out to be one of thoe games where you fight to win at all, regardless of the date. In a way, those are the best games, although they tend to take an inordinate amount of RL time...

 

[jrwh]

Picked the same capital spot as most. Wheats, third lux, gets away from the tundra.

Trad opener > honor opener > finish trad > commerce opener, thus far. Been putting in work on these barbs.

Popped a pottery ruin almost immediately, so I went scout>shrine into some units hoping to get earth mother early. Instead, I kept getting pushed back, and took OWN on turn 47. Not nearly early enough to get me a religion, though. Somehow managed to avoid scouting all three of the nearby religious CS to get any early faith bonus.

Three archers, second and third scout, and a second jag out of the capital before pumping three settlers at pop four. Floating gardens into granary after that, some extra workers (I stole a few each from Ormus and Wittenberg, plus dragged a couple out of barb camps, but it's still not enough to match tile improvements with this growth), a comp bow, stables, library, NC finished turn 97.

Expands made floating gardens, granaries, libraries, coliseums. Thinking about some trade routes finally as my happiness is decent, and my land is under control. Would like to find a NW to get Vancouver back as an ally, I have a scout and a couple units with open borders poking around the rest of the fog.

Was cheap to get Attila to war Genghis, but he got steamrolled and is out of the game. Everyone hates Genghis now, so I may be able to get others to war him if necessary.

I have a nice, inaccessible-to-the-AI barb camp nestled between those comp bows. Spitting out some boats as well, waiting on it to respawn a unit inside the camp.

Spoiler :

 

[Megalou]

It's as if I'm playing badly on purpose to force some change in my approach. I play it too safe at times, and boring play could be worse than bad play. Now I used a great writer recklessly through a rapid miscalculation instead of saving him for rationalism. As for bad luck, I was getting ready to buy a university with faith only to have a Dutch missionary step in and change the religion at the last moment. But I'm still alive, with a small but capable army - I really like the agility of jaguars who are upgraded to swordsman and also master their altitude training. I'm also building a fifth and final city east of Kilimanjaro with wines within reach. I was surprised that the spot was free as long as until turn 100.

 

[jrwh]

I play it too safe at times, and boring play could be worse than bad play.

On deity, I think "boring" is the way. I am constantly stifling my natural inclination to be greedy with everything. I want all the land, every tile my cities can reach, wonders, the whole nine. But so often later in the game when I start to feel overwhelmed, it's because I didn't focus on the basic, boring things enough earlier on. Leaving me too many things at once to try to do later.

Even this map, settling and buying out to two NW, as well as lux/sheep tiles close to two of my neighbors...very risky. I'm thinking I can get away with it because Genghis had an aggressive neighbor in his own right, my terrain is pretty defensible, and I'm having more units than I normally would anyway for the barbs. I specifically did not try to settle the wine, I think it's too close to Dido and too far from me.

We'll see how it plays out, but I'm pretty happy with my infrastructure so far. 6 turn HG is still there tempting me. Growth is the least of my concerns this game, so what I really should do is probably make a few more units until I get to education, lol.

 

[StefanosG80]

Turn 145 here... It's going really well for me so far, most importantly avoided war and have just taken the tech lead!

I think the AI's here have been predisposed with wars between themselves and have all slowed down because of it. I have friendship with Dido and William (RA's coming too), they liked my congress proposal... Mongolia is scary but what's new there, I recently bribed them to war China as they had a lot of units nearby. Spain is gone, they were being attacked by Carthage, China and Huns but now Huns only have their cap left after giving away their only other city in peace with Mongolia.

I went for a 5 city tradition build, struggled with happiness for a few turns but now have lux trades with every AI for my salt going and CM up, finished NC turn 101 and have just settled a 6th city after getting NE and Ironworks in cap. I was very lucky to get oracle, I wasn't even really going for it but it was just left by the others, got Machu and just got Sistine too!

I got first meet on one religious CS and then met another quite early, I think I might have got first pantheon, and went for sun god for the early growth in cap, was tempted to go earth mother but decided going for religion was too risky/expensive and that I wanted to avoid putting hammers into shrines/temples so I could focus on growth and workers early.

Tradition completed, I also have two policies in liberty and just opened up rationalism not long ago with my first artist GA > writer bulb.

Could all go wrong if Mongolia declares on me before I'm ready but I'm headed for gatling guns and will build some xbows to upgrade soon.

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to CivFanatics and Game of the Month.

Thank you for sharing your game with us!

 

[StefanosG80]

Oh, just realised I have a save from turn 101, where I stopped last night and picked up today... I'll share that too, looks like I made much progress in 44 turns.

 

[enKage]

I am not sure if I am ready to go for Deity after long break, but it is already 3rd GoTM in a row I am participating, so in worst case I would simply submit great rage quit or defeat.

I am definitely not used to tradition, but I saw too little luxuries and got early culture hut, so I was kinda forced.
I settled in place and opposing to others I went for a shrine.
Building order was sth like scout, eagle, shrine, eagle, scout, granary, settler or sth like that. Barbs were in hordes, so I had to maneuver a lot to settle 1st expansion for Kilimanjaro. 2nd went for Gibraltar, 3rd risky for copper, after I realised it is pretty defensive, if I chop jungle. At turn 100 I founded 5th city for spice and silver to counter temporal unhappines.

Religion
I got Pagodas and gold per pop, so good for me. Not enhanced, I built 2 pagodas instead.

Wonders
I got pretty late College, because of waiting for copper city library, but I built Oracle in the meantime. I am not sure how much units I should have to feel save from DoWs, but I suppose I havve still too few.
I did not even rush Great Library even though I got early tech, and GLib went for China turn 30. Now I just noticed hanging gardens are still to build, so I would give it a try, as long as Genghis is still at war

Techs
Few turn from Civil Service.
Techpath was very risy, delaying construction and hoping eagles would be enough to not to look to tasty for neighbours.
I am not sure if 77 bulbs is enough for Deity at this stage, but I hope it is satisfacionairy a little.

Civis
Completed tradition, Oracled Esthetics opening, I opened also Commerce.
Exploration
Pretty all map uncovered.

Neighbours
I decided to declared joined war against China with Netherlands, so Willem would not look at me. Big threads are Mongolia, but Genghis is finishing Atilla now. I am not sure what is Indonesia plotting, as they have no wars now.

Future plans:
Guilds + Epic in Kilimanjaro city? Northern cities could send ships, but I think it would take too much time there. Of course build a lot of units and make a coalition against Genghis to at least liberate LaVenta.

Screenies

My empire

Spoiler :

Mongolian empire

Spoiler :

 

[Megalou]

Turn 145 here... It's going really well for me so far, most importantly avoided war and have just taken the tech lead!

I think the AI's here have been predisposed with wars between themselves and have all slowed down because of it. I have friendship with Dido and William (RA's coming too), they liked my congress proposal... Mongolia is scary but what's new there, I recently bribed them to war China as they had a lot of units nearby. Spain is gone, they were being attacked by Carthage, China and Huns but now Huns only have their cap left after giving away their only other city in peace with Mongolia.

I went for a 5 city tradition build, struggled with happiness for a few turns but now have lux trades with every AI for my salt going and CM up, finished NC turn 101 and have just settled a 6th city after getting NE and Ironworks in cap. I was very lucky to get oracle, I wasn't even really going for it but it was just left by the others, got Machu and just got Sistine too!

I got first meet on one religious CS and then met another quite early, I think I might have got first pantheon, and went for sun god for the early growth in cap, was tempted to go earth mother but decided going for religion was too risky/expensive and that I wanted to avoid putting hammers into shrines/temples so I could focus on growth and workers early.

Tradition completed, I also have two policies in liberty and just opened up rationalism not long ago with my first artist GA > writer bulb.

Could all go wrong if Mongolia declares on me before I'm ready but I'm headed for gatling guns and will build some xbows to upgrade soon.View attachment 710342View attachment 710344

Your army does seem to be "on the weak side", to quote the AI bullies. But it looks like Mongolia seems to be headed for Ormus. In my game, Mongolia was crippled by myself and the Huns but still sent their numerous ragged, obsolete units to try to capture Ormus. When they had all been mowed down (with assistance from a galleass donated by yours truly) they still gave their arrogant remark "I seem to have attacked a city-state under your protection", which came out quite hollow. Boys will be boys.

 

[StefanosG80]

Your army does seem to be "on the weak side", to quote the AI bullies. But it looks like Mongolia seems to be headed for Ormus. In my game, Mongolia was crippled by myself and the Huns but still sent their numerous ragged, obsolete units to try to capture Ormus. When they had all been mowed down (with assistance from a galleass donated by yours truly) they still gave their arrogant remark "I seem to have attacked a city-state under your protection", which came out quite hollow. Boys will be boys.

Yeah I just finished (t248), I managed to avoid any aggression the whole game, so never needed to build up much of an army... Mongolia never went for Ormus, they were at war with Carthage and were trying to march through my lands to get to them. I was a little concerned at one point but bribed them to war someone else and once I was ahead in tech I never felt threatened.

 

[Tiberiu]

Hello and thanks for this game, I decided to try it out and it was pretty fun. I enjoyed comparing my results to the others and reading their stories, here are my answers.

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

My only frustration in the first phase of the game was that I failed Colossus at 1 turn in one of Indonesia's city built near the ice. I knew that cities like that can buid coastal stuff but I wasn't paying attention.

Spoiler :

I ended up capturing this bad city ~ 20 turns later just because I wanted the Wonder...

Here is my turn 100.

Spoiler :

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?

I wanted to see how fast I can win Science victory and grow tall cities.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

I went for Philosophy because I wanted Oracle and a fast NC and then for Mathematics, Currency and Guilds so that I can build Hanging Gardens, Petra and Machu Picchu.
I did not start Archery or attempt Temple of Artemis but I was hoping to conquer it during the game, which did not happen.

- What Social Policies did you choose?

I started with Liberty and finished it, I wanted to expand fast and gain an extra Wonder with the finisher Engineer, or have the option to get a Prophet.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

I did not prioritize a Religion but I got the last one. It was pretty bad. Sun God, Tithe, Shrine +1h, FtW, IP. At least during the game I got Cathedrals+Monasteries with +2 tourism in 5 out of my 8 cities so it was a welcome boost of faith, culture and happiness. I re-converted at the end for a boost of gold, food, and happiness.