TSG 258 Opening Actions

vadalaz

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This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

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- How many Pathfinders did you build? How many and which ruin rewards have you picked?
- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
 
I was ready to roll out, and go to war, but I quickly got put back in my place when I realized no one is going to deal with the million barbarian camps, so I was quite busy with it, but now on turn 100 I'm finally getting the snowball rolling. I built only 2 additional Pathfinders, on top of the free one.
I opened on a Tradition Opener when I realized how many Luxuries I had nearby, and then quickly pivoted to Peity when I discovered all the desert and Mt. Sinai.
I'm using a pretty standard tech path mostly trying to get to Crossbowmen and Workshops, my intention is to essentially win the game with this, if at all possible.
I have Desert Folklore with Initiation Rites, Pagodas, Mosques to maintain the happiness to grow my cities.

I honestly made quite a few whoopsies because I'm not very used to Prince difficulty and I had to clear out Barbarians, but everything is on a solid roll right now, I'm bleeding gold but Initiation Rites should keep me afloat for as long as necessary.

The city near Mt Sinai made me excited because it's a pretty amazing Petra city, but as I'm building Petra I'm kinda realizing I'll probably never actually gain any real advantage out of it. (quickly editting to say I got completely meme'd by Assur who got a turn 104 Petra, I did not expect Prince to be able to get it x) o well, guess thats what I deserve, I'll just take his)
Morocco and Korea are essentially toast, and I plan to wait for Crossbowmen to move further into enemy territory.

Shooshoo.png
Shooshoo1.png
 
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It's turn 101 and it's been a blast so far. From my past experience of playing Shoshone, I knew that it can pay off to build a lot more than the two 'standard scouts', especially on a big map like this where the AI does little scouting. As the game goes on, I suspect that for this victory condition, it might be possible to just keep building pathfinders and nothing else, but anyway I saw the lovely lands around me and wanted some cities.

In a normal game, I would start with either culture or population from my first ancient ruin, but in this case I chose the unit upgrade, knowing I would like to get that back into rotation as quickly as possible. For social policies I opened tradition, and then I opened honor. The barbarian kills were actually quite useful for culture, and I also want some advance notification of camps spawning, as I don't want barbarian horsemen to come into my lands and pillage all my tiles. Also, after tradition, I will probably continue honor.

One thing that has not gone too well this game is scouting, which is ironic given the number of pathfinders I built. However, as soon as I upgraded a pathfinder to a composite, I wanted it to return home to 'join the army'. I now have six composite bowmen, which should be enough to kill all the AI, but I still have to make/buy new pathfinders to find the remaining city states and AI. So far, I have only found Morocco, India, Korea, and Siam. Morocco and India are gone (Mumbai is still burning, hence the unhappiness and the fact that I'm pausing my NC build), and next will be Korea.

As for my cities, I did consider the Sinai settle as well, but I wanted my city a little closer so I could send it a trade route. I did complete Petra, and the capital built Great Library (not unlucky, still I started quite late) and Oracle. However, I also lost Hanging Gardens, Mausoleum, and Temple of Artemis. Hanging Gardens I had not started yet, thinking I would have plenty of time, and debating which of my three cities should build it. However, Korea built it, so it was my own fault for not checking. I lost ToA in Te Moak by two turns in a faraway land (T77, not too shabby for Prince AI, I actually recently built it T78 on Deity!), and Mausoleum by 3 turns (T98). The latter two could very likely have been avoided if I had scouted better. Then I could have seen, declared war to discourage the wonder build, and perhaps even harass by stealing workers and pillaging tiles.

Religion: desert folklore and pagodas. I almost always pick production first, but I reasoned happiness would be more important here.

Shoshone_start.png
 
As for my cities, I did consider the Sinai settle as well, but I wanted my city a little closer so I could send it a trade route. I did complete Petra, and the capital built Great Library (not unlucky, still I started quite late) and Oracle. However, I also lost Hanging Gardens, Mausoleum, and Temple of Artemis. Hanging Gardens I had not started yet, thinking I would have plenty of time, and debating which of my three cities should build it. However, Korea built it, so it was my own fault for not checking. I lost ToA in Te Moak by two turns in a faraway land (T77, not too shabby for Prince AI, I actually recently built it T78 on Deity!), and Mausoleum by 3 turns (T98). The latter two could very likely have been avoided if I had scouted better. Then I could have seen, declared war to discourage the wonder build, and perhaps even harass by stealing workers and pillaging tiles.
soZ didn’t interest you?
 
Haha, it was built turn 102 in my game.
I shall overtake you nonetheless!
(Yes, it gets even funnier when I tell you I missed it by 2 turns and it was the only wonder the AI - specifically the one remaining unknown civ at the time - had built and would build for centuries.)
 
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T106 and things are going fairly well. All this rough terrain is, well, rough. I built 3 additional Pathfinders for a total of 4; and upgraded them all to CB.
I found a million ruins: Pop, Unit upgrade, Culture, Pop, Faith, Tech, Unit Upgrade, Pop, Culture, Unit Upgrade, Tech, Culture, Pop, Faith, Tech, Pop, Faith, Culture, Pop, Unit Upgrade, Gold (because it stopped giving me the good ones at all for some reason).
I went Liberty and opened Honor and before finishing Liberty. I figured on this large map I'd be able to build a lot of cities. But the luxuries weren't that plentiful and were spaced out too much so I have only built 3 so far. I'll definitly build at least 3 more and if happiness is good enough, even more than that to get more pastures because...
For my Pantheon I picked God of the Open Sky. When I saw all those Sheep I figured I'd go for it. I considered food from camps but I like culture better. I didn't even think of DoF as others did, seemed like the desert was too far away. I also got a religion and took Tithe and Faith from Wonders since I didn't have a faith pantheon.
So that means I plan on building a lot of wonders. I've got ToA and Pyramids so far. And am building Parthenon, Hagia Sophia and Oracle now.

I now have six composite bowmen, which should be enough to kill all the AI
What what what? That is unfathomable to me. I'm sure I'm going to have to go to Artillery and I do plan on building lots of Comanche Riders just to traverse the massive distance and rough terrain of this map. I can imagine units will go obsolete before reaching their target sometimes.
 

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I did mean with the intention of upgrading those to crossbows, but wait until you read @fiddlesticks after actions report :)
I'm guessing fiddlesticks built pathfinders only and used them both to scout and to capture cities, without ever returning home. A problem there would be the fact that pathfinders upgraded to CBs can't capture cities, so some units would have to stay not upgraded. I would have liked to try this audacious strategy myself but I didn't realize beforehand that there would be such a huge number of goodie huts.
 
Turn 83, I'm now the proud owner of half the map's capitals. Settled on the wooded gems for maximum early production, as I didn't plan on doing any sim city here.

- How many Pathfinders did you build? How many and which ruin rewards have you picked?
I made ten off the bat, gold purchasing a granary along the way. First pick comp bow upgrade, next pick population, next pick culture, repeat. Once I got to my fifth policy, which was the last I cared about, and got too far away from my capital to get the extra population going there instead of my conquests, I started taking gold and map ruins instead of pop and culture. I purposely left behind some ruins I scouted with comp bows so my new pathfinders could continue taking the upgrade as often as possible. I'm up to ten comp bows by this point, with another five pathfinders still tagging along, and helping as my capture units.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
I did two practice games before attempting this, as I'm unfamiliar with the map type.

First try I went for the typical liberty comp bow rush with an expand, but I quickly discovered how nasty it is to navigate this map. In addition to the abundant rough terrain, there were many choke points created by mountains and water. The map for gotm doesn't seem nearly as bad with the chokepoints. Nevertheless, I decided to forgo expanding at all, or building anything besides pathfinders, since I don't see how it would speed up the victory here; movement speed is the name of the game. I did eventually build a monument, library, four chariot archers, and a stables, and I'm gonna go for Pyramids and then Statue of Zeus next. I don't think regular comp bows will get across the rest of the map fast enough to matter now, so I guess I'll try to get one-turn repairs and the extra combat strength against cities.

My second practice game, which I thought was going well enough to just stop and move on to the actual gotm, apparently had all flatland capitals. I was a bit surprised how much harder it was for me to take the cities on this map compared to the ones I did in practice. Three comp bows + a pathfinder makes easy captures on flatland cities at this difficulty, but I struggled with the hill capitals on this map. Had to do things like wait for barbs to move in and soak shots for me to make captures work with only three comp bows. I now have two groups of five comp bows each, plus some chariots catching up, so I hope the rest of the map goes a little easier.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
I took pottery first so I could gold purchase a granary asap. Mining then calendar next for lux improvements. AH + BW after that to potentially reveal additional production tiles. I beelined those in my practice games, but this spawn location had enough good production tiles (tons of sheep!) that I felt comfortable delaying it here. Writing after so I can get embassies and figure out where everyone is; I learned how hard it is to locate capitals otherwise in the practice games. Beyond that, I don't think it much matters, but I took optics in case I stumble across some water I'd rather go through than around, and then construction in case I'd want to build some non-ruin-upgrade comp bows; turns out I don't, though.

- What Social Policies did you choose?
Liberty opener > free worker, didn't want to wait for Prince-level CS to start spitting out workers to steal. Honor opener > great general > increased xp. After this I don't much care, but I took the golden age from liberty just now since I also popped a natty. May as well double it up while I build some wonders.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Don't see the point given my strategy. Did use a ruin after turn 20 to snag myself God-King as a pantheon, though.

- Additional thoughts:
By radaring my initial pathfinder, I was able to determine immediately that we were in the top right corner of the map (if you select the unit and cursor far away, even in the fog, it tells you how many moves it takes to get there; but it's impossible to move off the edge of the map, so you can figure out where the edges are through the fog). This helped out a lot with my initial scouting pattern, and will also make the game faster than if I were in the middle and had to send multiple armies in different directions, as I did in my practice games. Here, I have one army going across the north half, and another on the south. Much nicer. I left no fog unexplored, as I'm a very hungry boy for ruins, and Prince AI is leaving them all over the place. I've been taking CS tributes wherever and whenever I can.

Spoiler :
poc83.jpg
 
What a fun game!

My first time with Shoshone.

I only built one city, and then pathfinders, to the unit limit, then the SoZ. Then horseman, though my horse supply is limited to 4. There were a couple of libraries and granaries added at some point later.

I found a settler north of Marrakesh on T25, so I captured it. I had 3 comp bows and a pathfinder. I left the settler 2 squares out of the city, the defending archer came to claim it, so I killed the archer, retook the worker and then the city. Marrakesh build more pathfinders.

Delhi was easy, no archers to guard it. What a horrible city, sat in the jungle!

I was hitting so many ruins, I had to make sure I still had a pathfinder to capture the cities. Unit upgrades were the priority, then increased population, i founded a religion on 2 faith ruins. I also took several culture hits early on and even then, gold and a tech.. I didn't count them all, but the number of ruins was incredible.

The southern army marched west and captured Assur easily. They didnt fall for the worker trap, but I had a couple more attacking units by this stage.

The now assembled northern army also marched west and took Seoul easily.

I havent lost a unit yet. I am ignoring barbarians, as much as I can, except for lower levels to gain xp. I dont want to be distracted. I will keep going until my armies are no longer powerful enough, then I guess I will merge them into one fighting force. There is an unmet civ with a bigger army than me. Depending on how it goes then upgrading to xbows is the plan, but gold is limited, I need to find trading partners.

I am annexing cities to control their build and give me production options. Courthouse is the first build.

Barbarians back home are an increasing problem, so the units I now build in the early cities will stay around to protect workers and luxuries.

90 turns in, here are my 2 armies. I have captured 4 capitals and havent even met the remaining 4 civs!

I went for the Religion that gives faith for Gems, a tad corny perhaps, but an instant faith hit. Tithe and pagodas.

Tradition opener, and then free worker, then left side Honor. I will finish the Honor tree now. I haven't captured any workers from CS. I had a few culture CS friends, randomly, from taking out barb camps that were in my way.

But man! the civ black hole. One more turn. That term was obviously coined by someone playing the Shoshone on a map like this ! I lost hours in this game.. and hope to finish it today, once I have my chores out of the way !

northern army.png


southern army.png
 
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