TSG 260 After Actions

Nizef

Emperor
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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you use your UU?
- What technologies did you prioritize?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
- Final remarks?
 
I had to toss in the towel on my first attempt. I might get back to it later on a retry.

England and France both turned into giga empires on the other island, completely destroying Spain and the Aztecs, and they both chose Freedom.

My entire gameplan revolved around making landfall using B-17s and Paratroopers so used my scientist to spike around it (and delayed Plastics), but they are too far away for me to reach because of the massive ocean so the Paratroopers were useless. I tried using Aircraft Carriers and ended up taking London (who had 145 defense in the Modern era and completely wrecked my B-17s despite only having a singular Arti unit anywhere in sight) but the cost was too high, and currently my Civ is in -33 happiness because of the pressure from the 2 Freedom empires, but swapping to Freedom keeps me at -30 because Freedom is horrible. I have nukes, planes, am close to Stealth Bombers, but due to unhappiness I am unable to prevent a city revolt.

I prioritized Radar, and played entirely around that, I did manage to get Satellites and had an Engineer ready to rush Hubble.
I picked Order to keep my own island peaceful because I figured if I have to spend too many resources staying alive I'd never be able to overtake England and France.
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As for final thoughts; like I said, I might revisit it a bit later, though I'm really not sure, I don't enjoy games with such limiting terrain in the early game, because I'm a major Cavalry/Arti addict. Though part of me wants to beat the challenge, so I might stubbornly force myself through it because I hate losing, I think it's really not that hard and cowardly chalk this one down to bad luck that the 2 civs that snowballed giga hard are super far away, both prioritized Tourism and picked the same ideology that's conflicting with mine.

Though in a second attempt I'll give up on the B-17/Paratroopers plan, I've never really played with Aircraft carriers before, but I didn't expect 14 B-17s to be so useless.
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Still looking forward to see everyone else's plans and results, I'm not very good with Culture Victories yet so I'd love to hear suggestions on how to approach it when there's no land to rush your neighbors with Cavalry and Arti.
 
T167 Loss: The Fall of America... Or, Revenge of the Native Americans.

Well, the ill will that I dealt to Hiawatha early in the game (see Opening Actions) came back to bite me. I planned on playing peacefully but war was thrust upon me. T109 Hiawatha DoW me with quite a few Mohawk Warriors. So I had to go into war footing and build units, putting me further behind because I wasn't able to build the foundations of empire that I would need going forward. That's one of the worst things about war, it puts behind, especially a defensive war. I don't know how warmongers do it. (I failed to notice that Inca settler up north at the time, which would prove detrimental later).
Spoiler T109 Hiawatha has had enough :
T109 Hiawatha DoW.jpg

I was able to fight off the Iroquois army due to the good defensive terrain of the mountains and lake. So by T133 I felt I was safe. He still refused to make peace even though I've killed a multitude of Iroquois troops. (This is when I noticed the TWO Inca cities in my territory. I was so focused on the war down south I didn't even pay attention to what was happening up north.)
Spoiler T133 :
T133 Fought off Hiawatha.jpg

But then T148 Pachacuti DoW me out of nowhere. Hiawatha still refused to make peace for anything less than 3 cities. I realized the end is nigh. But I played on to see who would be able to destroy America first. The Inca coming from the north, the Iroquois from the south.
Spoiler The Fall of America in pictures :
T148 Inca DoW.jpg
T150 Military Might.jpg
T153 Washington Falls.jpg
T158 New York Falls.jpg
T162 Boston Falls to Hiawatha.jpg
T164 Atlanta on the ropes.jpg
T166 Who will destroy America.jpg

Spoiler Hiawatha's Revenge :
T167 Hiawatha's Revenge.jpg

I thought I would be able to defend my corner of the world due to the good defensive terrain. Boy was I wrong; the Deity AI were out for vengence this game. On the other side of the world, Napoleon toook out England. And on this side Hiawatha and Pachacuti took out America. I was hoping Minutemen could save me but I didn't even get to the tech for my UUs. It was fun while it lasted!
 
T167 Loss: The Fall of America... Or, Revenge of the Native Americans.
Really nice write up and pictures! In my test games I settled both spots that the Incas settled in your game. The incas did try to attack but they stood no chance (attacking over water with comp bows and triremes is hard as it is and the AI can definitely not master that). I also did not settle south of the Kailash river, thus Hiawatha liked me in both games.
 
Same, in my game, Iroquois and Inca's were basically fighting each other the entire game as I paid them to swallow up Brasil in the early game, but they were both completely peaceful with me. At the end of the game my island were just a bunch of bums with 0 culture, 0 wonders and 0 future. Meanwhile on the other island Spain got destroyed by France and the Aztecs destroyed by England and they formed 2 giga empires and stacked all the Wonders in the game.
 
T273 Culture victory.

My experience this game was similar to @qontroL 's: I was going for domination style, but it was going quite poorly and I considered throwing the towel, but I kind of wanted to see if I could win at all in a reasonable time, and the finish time was not as bad as I had feared. As I mentioned in the announcement thread, I like Minutemen, but the problem for this game was that the whole plan of going to war with infantry and artillery was misguided, and too slow given my mediocre start; the home continent was not well suited to land war, and the Minutemen mobility was nullified by Inca's Great Wall. To make matters worse, I actually postponed rifling in order to get some Minutemen out, but by the time I reached plastics (around T200, I don't recall the exact turn), I did not have any gold for upgrading. If you get infantry early enough, you sometimes don't need any artillery support as you can smash through muskets, rifles, and 50-strengt cities. By the time I really got going, though, it was closer to turn 220, and Inca had Great War infantry, in addition to Red Fort.

One thing that did go right was a cheesy war declaration on Inca: we had a declaration of friendship, and two turns before it expired I traded my gpt for around 6000 gold, then bought all his CS and declared war on him two turns later, with little diplomatic penalty (I actually was friends with France all the way until I declared war on him too, around turn 260, when I could repeat the same trick for 4500 gold, although by this time I did not need the money anymore).

People don't like Freedom for domination, due to its limited happiness, but to me the Universal Suffrage policy is so strong that I can often find sufficient happiness. Having said that, I did have to throw some conquered cities Pedro's way (I had recalled him to life, but kept Rio with Temple of Artemis). My policies this game were: Tradition, Aesthetics, Rationalism, Freedom 6, and Patronage 1. Not that much considering it's turn 273 and it's a culture victory game. I could definitely have pushed culture and tourism harder early on in the game by going for wonders like Sistine and Uffizi. They did not go early and I could have built them, but I figured I would just capture them instead. I did indeed capture them in the end, but by turn 265 I got little use from them.

The reason I was still somewhat pleased with the finish time is that once stealth and X-com get going, it can suddenly go very quickly. I landed on the second continent on turn 260 by prying London from Aztec hands. By turn 273, I had captured 18 cities, wiping out France and Aztec, and only staying my hand on Spain to avoid losing a domination victory. Looking at the demo screen, I don't think I've often had 600k military score. Certainly M'banza Congo was impressed. To conclude, I think it's still not bad to supplement Culture Victory with conquest, although in this case it might have been better to stay peaceful until B17s.

America_main_island.png

America_front.png

America_demos.png
 
once stealth and X-com get going, it can suddenly go very quickly.

Yeah, that's what I was banking on, but sadly I got wrecked right at the final hurdle by the cultural pressure. It kicked in right before I started wrecking the island. I think if I replayed from the point where I passed up on Plastics to push for Radar I'd get there in time. Not taking Plastics ruined me. I put too much faith in my B-17s.
 
Culture victory turn 229

I really enjoyed the write-ups so far. Great games @raider980 @qontroL and @The_Black_Vegetable!

In my game the Inca were by far the culture runaway. The twin cities of Cusco and Tiwanaku had tons of wonders and production. So the gameplan was to build up the science base to get to Internet and then take out the Inca as fast as possible. My own culture and captured Incan great works were enough to win over the others (France was the last holdout about 2-3 turns before I took the last Incan city).

I founded the the World Congress and proposed world religion to boost the tourism in my capital. I had to bulb a few scientists and Oxford Radio to get the votes from my CS allies. Pachacuti proposed WF and he won it later on when I still didn't have the military to stop him, but it was still really helpful to get the extra policy.

I started building up Frigates in the 160-170 range, and sailed them over to take out Pacha's navy. I rotated damaged ships back to home waters and as soon as we had oil and electronics these got upgraded to battleships. Most of my warring this game was done with battleships supported by limited land units, including a few super X-bows from the LaVenta XP farming.

Cusco fell turn 193, and then another city every few turns after that. Cusco and Tiwanaku became good tourism boosts. I won the IG around turn 195ish and hit internet before turn 200. I great engineered the Visitor Center and Louvre.

The biggest logistical headache was to get to the last two Incan cities on the other side of our continent near the CS archipelago. I sent a few frigates the long way around, upgraded them on the west side of our continent and then supported the final attack with some B17's that had been built to capture this one Incan city surrounded on all sides but one with mountains.

Policies were Tradition, Patronage to Scholasticism, Rationalism (Telecommunications for the free tech), and Order (free engineer and scientist for 3rd tier).

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260_201.png


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@Nizef. You are right I might have planned that better. I had a Louis Armstrong, a George Gershwin and two Incan compositions and no one else had 3 of the same. The last two GM’s I bulbed for concert tours - one in Iroquois territory and the other in England (via a captured and gifted Incan city). I had my GM slots empty for a few turns leading up to internet and then forgot to switch them back on for a few turns after the last natural GM spawned. Maybe I could’ve got another!

I also just noticed I have a GW slot open in Washington that I should have filled! But in the end conquering the Inca was the constraint so no harm done.

I also wish I had not taken Pagodas. I didn’t generate enough pre-industrial faith to build more than 1.
 
I had a quick game to try again with peaceful play, but to be honest the game was not amazing. I certainly was nowhere near a T229 victory time.

Armed with map knowledge, I headed straight to Brazil to steal workers, but I managed only 1, and from Iroquois I did not see any good spots to steal. Still, La Venta produced a decent stream of workers, so I was not too worker-constrained. Also, I got a few more ruins from Iroquois/Brazilian territory.

In the screenshot, the first B17 is about to come out, but it's already T224, and I don't feel like grinding out the war against Inca. Also, I missed my windows to cheese declare war and take all their gold. Inca was sitting on thirty thousand gold this game, but before I could 'trade' for that gold he denounced me (I should not have voted against ban luxury spices). Probably at this stage it's just a case of going for internet, winning international games, and hope it is enough.

America_reloaded.png
America_tourism.png
 
CV turn 343

Turn 0-10
Moved settler east and actually found an even better settling spot (arguably) in the bay next to the bisons.
Hut gave gold to buy cow tile.
2nd hut gave population.
Found mount Kailash.
3rd and 4th hut gave just barbs and map, but La Venta was discovered on turn 9, including 8 valuable faith.
On the interturn the second scout is ready and I switch to shrine immidiately. I want a pantheon, but maybe religion should be downplayed, for as I have mentioned elsewhere, I have a tendency to prioritize EVERYTHING in cultural games.

Turn 11-30
Huts give 75 gold, sailing, upgrade to archer, map, bronzw, population.
t17 - met iroquois,
t21 - met Brazil and then found the mountain wall blocking off our upgraded scout,
t26 I finally got to open Monarchy. Hut luck was OK but culture sorely missed!

Turn 30-60
Cleared the barb camp south of La Venta in order to create a worker factory.
Bought several tiles to maximize 6 food granary.
Pic 1_granary.png

The starting warrior was sadly closed in between the mountain range and Iroquois cities. I had to, and did, declare war to get out. This was dumb because the warrior couldn't get out anyway because of enemy units. But it survived and nicked a worker, who reached the Mt Kailash area around turn 90. It's doubtful if it was worth the 2 gold in unit maintenance. Impossible to say, really. But on the topic of early triremes and the risk of being closed in or limited in your sailing, I think declaring war just to get past is most viable. The AI you declare on, except maybe Dido, is unlikely to destroy your trireme, and phony wars carry little or no diplomatic penalty.
Pic 2_locked in.png

Finally got a pantheon on turn 39, needing 30 faith. Unfortunately, Stone Circles was taken. So we picked oral tradition. It had a very marginal effect. We later got the last available religion, choosing the follower beliefs Pagodas (which I agree with @fiddlesticks was rather useless and should have been substituted for Swords into Ploughshares or any belief that would increase the faith per turn a little), and Religious Art, which gives extra culture and tourism.

The worker factory got off to a shakey start as my thieve scout was only 4hp from getting killed on top of the furs. Then a second La Venta archer appeared. We tried to save the factory by killing this archer. (This gave the scout triple extra sight.) But since the remaining la Venta archer was upgraded to a bowman, the days of free workers were going dim as the early Scandinavian twililght. But 4 La Venta workers in total was OK in the end. (Of course I did not get all 4 before turn 60. I'm just commenting my own notes from that time period.)

On turn 60 we have 1 settler headed for the crabs, and 2 expos: New York near Mount Kailach and Boston by the numerous atolls.

Turn 61-100

As Byblos seeks the Inca we are glad we haven't agreed to embassies yet. I was mildly curious about it myself.

As for social policy, Monarchy came before both Aristochracy and Landed Elite because happiness hasn't kept up.
On turn 71 I could finally afford to buy the MT Kailash tile. Having no way to raise cash is annoying.

On turn 91 I had the Oracle and my 4 acqeducts. Had I missed it, I would probably have quit - what with 13 cpt and 13 turns to next policy? Not so unlucky, though. In celebration of this we buy a work boat for the crabs.

On turn 95 we finally met Spain. I can see why people find fractal maps interesting.
Pic 3_Spain.png

Turn 101-200
We try to keep up in tech, overtaking the prime threat Inca in 160.
We have some wonders: Oracle, Sistine, Uffici, spread out to three different cities. This helps with the 33% culture bonus from Flourishing of the arts. Turn 174 the Aesthetic policy tree is finished. Hermitage with its extra culture and tourism came in at t181.

Aztecs has the lowest culture, and I like the fact that they also have the Great Wall and are militarily strong, since we would probably want to save them to last if we got a chance to eliminate a few AIs.

Unwisely, I missed out on buying tiles that were claimed by the Iroquois city "Cuba". :(
Pic 4_Cuba.png

A plan starts to take shape: I will try to capture the biggest Brazilian cities, Sao Paolo and Rio. The brazilwood camp culture will eventually be great converted to tourism, and Rio is the wonder leader. First, however, I deem it necessary to capture the Incan city Huamanga to obtain shared borders with Brazil.

188 - 5 galleasses upgraded to frigates.
Lost Louvre to Pedro unnecessarily. The crappy information in Global Politics never warned us that Pedro had Exploration. After 14 years this has still not been corrected. Why doesn't it just sat "Exploration: 0" so we know that they have the opener?
Pic 5_Louvre Bug..png
Well, at least it fell into the right hands because if I can't eliminate Pedro, I can't win anyway. But the Incas must be crippled first.
In 193 sea war with Inca. Countless Incan units were destroyed, especially the embarked half-wits.

Turn 201-343

202 - Captured Huamanga. We also tried for the core cities of the Incas, reaching 8 frigates, 4 privateers and the odd galleass and caravel, before the age of sail drew to a close. Money was a constant problem, happiness a smaller one. As @raider980 said, stalemate wars slow other things down, so I did not want to burn my chances with Brazil. The Incan peninsula was left unscathed.

On turn 227 we picked autocracy for the chance of getting some good policies. This cost some initial dissent, but the tide turned within a few turns as France also chose autocracy. What a nice ol' tenent it is! [rolleyes]

En route to Sao Paolo one of our privateers captured an ironclad before I even had the tech to build ironclads. Fun! That is the first time it's happened for me.
Pic 6_epic_ironclad..png
The fleet and the artillery took Sao Paolo with hardly any losses, but when the turn came to Rio, the pracina really showed up in droves. Battleships helped and we captured Rio too, but then Inca backstabbed mortally, 90% of our fleet now being on the wrong side of Brazil. Also, the very powerful CS Ragusa were allied with Inca and attacked us immediately. At one point, a worker finishing a road was the only thing that allowed me to stop a melee unit from reaching and capturing the bombed-out Sao Paolo. At that point, the Incas had already temporarliy captured Huamanga- Losing 2 key cities is much worse than one, though, because if you only need to take back one city you can then sue for a white peace immediately once you have taken it - even though you would not have been able to keep it for a single turn.
Pic 7_artillery..pngPic 8_cool_war.png
(You must love the Spanish Duke Ellington who decided to float around amidst the clamour.)
Reflecting on the last picture, so many enemy units survived with 1-2 hp left in this game that it was almost laughable.

310 - Internet from last rationalism policy + hurried Visitor Centre in Rio. This means Rio alone goes up to a whopping 352 tourism. Quite a catch. The tourism levels out at 610.
318 - International games commences and 2 turns into it we get a Great Artist and start a golden age to increase our chances. And in fact we got the gold medal! This would allow culture to peek at 927 tpt. In the mean time Iroquois has finished Great Firewall, but we will be influential over them in 3 turns anyway. The next important thing is to secure Hubble, and so reduce the risk of science loss.

However: We missed CN Tower to Hiawata by 2 turns and Hubble by about 3 turns.

Should I declare war on Inca, who has the biggest military of all, to get the 50% Cult of Personality tourism bonus from France, who is now the strongest cultural AI, having swallowed up England and a bit of Aztecs? I have already been allied with France against Aztecs, but they have made peace and America is barely even popular with them.

I have to ally France against Inca, or Iroquois may win by science. At least Inca didn't nuke Brazil when they wiped them out 2 turns ago, while Aztecs and France nuked each other repeatedly. Clausewitz's legacy was a neat present as the last tenent reached, and this time I made sure that Ragusa would be on my side. It turned out that Inca was rather harmless after all: They would bomb Rio down to zero, but had no chance of getting a melee unit in there to capture it.

When I learned that Cult of Personality stacks if you are allied against more than one common enemies, I allied France to declare on Iroquois too, and liberated Byblos.

342 - The final Great Musician, worth 9210 t, appeared in Washington. I gifted Philadelphia to France and checked out.
Pic 12_winning_move.png
I'm happy with this cultural victory, even if I was nowhere close to the superb finish dates of @The_Black_Vegetable and @fiddlesticks. I didn't ruin my rep, which meant I could keep open borders with all the important civs to the end. Always having at least 2 DoFs also allowed me to buy all the cash I needed for gpt, for example when I wanted to buy the alliance of Ragusa or wanted to avoid unhappiness. I was also happy with Autocracy, including Futurism, Universal Healthcare and Cult of Personality.
 
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Nice write-up, @Megalou ! Were any of the AI close to space?
Thank you. Yes, the Iroquois had finished one space part. But worse than that, according to the trade page they had finished researching all techs except one. Pretty nerve-racking.
 
By the way, do you know of any other way to know what the AIs have researched, besides the ”available trades” view?
 
By the way, do you know of any other way to know what the AIs have researched, besides the ”available trades” view?
First of all, you can see the cost of a technology in the technology tree. I believe the cost of a tech gets cheaper by 5% (though it may depend on map size?) for every civ that has the tech. Of course, that does not tell you which civ has which tech (unless a civ is the first to enter a new era, of course).

There is also a trick to see what the AI can produce in a city, but you need a spy in that city. First, from the main view, click on the right of the city bar for any of your cities. This will bring up the production panel from that city, while remaining in the main view. If you then go to espionage and view a spy in the AI city, you can see the same production panel from the AI city.
 
First of all, you can see the cost of a technology in the technology tree. I believe the cost of a tech gets cheaper by 5% (though it may depend on map size?) for every civ that has the tech. Of course, that does not tell you which civ has which tech (unless a civ is the first to enter a new era, of course).

There is also a trick to see what the AI can produce in a city, but you need a spy in that city. First, from the main view, click on the right of the city bar for any of your cities. This will bring up the production panel from that city, while remaining in the main view. If you then go to espionage and view a spy in the AI city, you can see the same production panel from the AI city.
I tested the last trick on the Iroquois in this game. It works fine, but the result was a bit strange: It was a fact that they had finished one of the three SS Boosters, so at the very least, another SS Booster should appear in the list of choices, but there were no space ship parts in the list at all. Even if other cities were building Boosters, it should appear as a shaded alternative.
 
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