TSG 260 Opening Actions

[Nizef]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Remembering PC J Law's advice from back in the day: if you see coast close to your spawn, move your capital coastal, because most of your expands will be coastal too. Moving to the coastal grassland river tile kept most of the good stuff (I lost one deer), and I gained a fish (two actually, as it turned out later), a bison, a silver, and a wheat, plus of course coastal access. In addition, I don't like settling on forest (losing the chop), so I felt moving was worth a turn. I also lost a cotton, but I don't really care about that.

The isolation from the other civs slowed my game down quite a bit. I only got a worker steal from La Venta (later some more, but not a lot them early. I think it's because it built a composite bowmen, which would see my camping unit when it moved out of the city to stand on top of the sheep hill), but no workers from the AI, also because I discovered the AI quite late. My warrior-turned-spearman did go south, but I did not venture into the jungle south of Mt Kailash, and scouts went in the 'wrong direction'. When my scouts finally did meet Brazil, Inca, and Iroquois, I just wanted to scout and not try to steal workers. Not that I managed to scout much, since their cities cut off the lands beyond them. Perhaps I should have gone for optics earlier and get a boat out to do scouting, but my game was pretty slow as it was.

My early game was scout-scout-settler and pray for a pop ruin. I did get one, although a bit late, and after I built the settler for Kailash, I built a worker, grew to 4, and built two more settlers. The other two cities were a bit awkwardly placed, but they will serve.

There were a few wonders I would have liked in the capital: Mausoleum, Colossus, and Hanging Gardens. Fortunately, the AI built them all before I could waste hammers or even research beakers on them. I did get Oracle, and currently the AI is teasing me by not building Chichen Itza. I still only see three AI, so I won't be bothering. After finishing tradition, I chose to open Patronage. I think I will go domination-style culture, so then city state happiness will be key, and I will get the Chichen eventually.

 

[Nizef]

. I think I will go domination-style culture, so then city state happiness will be key, and I will get the Chichen eventually.

It is not for nothing that we play as Washington in this one. Spreading your culture using the fireworks from B-17s is a good back up plan...

 

[qontroL]

I was curious to see how the land looked after the initial screenshot, and it was my worst nightmare. Completely isolated with very little land-mobility.

I'm actually pretty scared on whether I'll be able to beat this one or not.

I started out with a Scout and after finding a bunch of stuff I queue'd a Monument, thinking I might wanna go Liberty, but then right before clicking Liberty I found ''the portal to hell''. We're connected to the entire world on land with 1 jungle tile, it's an actual disaster. Finding ''the portal to hell'' changed my plan and I went with Tradition, because there's no way I was going to be able to defend any expansions beyond the portal to hell.

This portal to hell actually changed everything for me, and is also the reason I might be doomed on this one... My new plan became ''Lay waste to the entire planet using B-17s and Paratroopers''.

To execute this plan I decided to just focus on Science; upsides, there's a ton of luxuries, and a bunch of maritime city-states to help me speed up the growth.

I decided to settle 4 cities about as far away from each other as I comfortably could and I bullied Brasil, taking 2 workers, and killing his first extra settler (3 workers stolen) and I took a worker from the City-State next to Brasil (Ragusa I think).
In hindsight I definitely should've taken it from La Venta because it's basically a source of infinite Workers, but alas, I was already there.

I was really pinching it in the last few turns as I wasn't spawning a Great Prophet with only 1 spot left, despite having met the quote for the past 5 turns, but luckily I managed to get my Prophet on board, possibly due to my alliance with La Venta, maybe it wasn't the wrong choice after all.

We're currently in a 3-way war against Brasil, during which I was able to steal 1 more Worker (grabbing a total of 4 from Brasil). I financed the war because Hiawatha wants my blood and I figured killing 1 Civ early is basically how I'll avoid winning a Domination Victory later while still safely getting the Culture Victory.

I intend to play as greedily as possible, because there's a run-away civ I haven't met yet who is already on 799 points... which is terrible news. I really have no clue how well my plan to bomb everyone will play out, but I sure hope this run-away Civ isn't Korea or I'm doomed. And I pray Hiawatha won't murder me while I'm playing this greedy play-style. I'll probably go Order since I expect Hiawatha to do so, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

(If no Oil spawns in my territory you won't hear from me again xD)

 

[fiddlesticks]

I played to turn 67 this morning and really like the start so far.

The land is 100% defensible so there’s no worries about neighbours for now. I also had both scouts get upgraded to archers, so I’m already 20 turn ms into XP farming from La Venta. Those upgrades also helped clear out early barbs which meant no headaches there.

My original warrior also upgraded to a spearman and managed to grab 3 workers from Hiawatha, and liberated one for Byblos for an early maritime ally.

I’ve got four cities up with lots of unique luxes. Even without the crabs connected I’ve got some happiness headroom. The eventual great general will get the spices south of Mt Kailash.

The faith from Kailash got stone circles as a pantheon. I should be able to get a decent religion in a few turns.

I prioritized an early granary and also have a stonework in the capital. With Mausoleum built there and some willing horse buyers I’ve got good income coming in.

Next up I need some additional units to make some more scouting progress.

 

[raider980]

I had the exact opposite thought from @qontroL when I uncovered our lands. I was elated - I might not die early this game . In a corner, blocked off by mountains, a lake, and a 1-tile wide isthmus is a good thing in my mind (on Deity). And there's plenty of room for 6-7 cities.

I did move the warrior west as mentioned in the Announcement and he saw coast. Briefly thought about moving there but didn't see any sea resources and it would move away from too many good tiles. So I settled on the river hill. Build order was standard Scout, Scout, Monument, Shrine. Initial priorities were explore and find my city spots. When I saw those mountains and lake blocking off the rest of the continent I knew I had to rush some settlers to get down there before someone made it into my territory.

After opening Tradition as usual, I went Liberty and will try to settle 7 cities. I built a settler just before I got my settler from Collective Rule and they both moved SE. One settled on the river hill coast near Mt. Kailash and one on the Spice to block off my territory. I also have settled Philadelphia way down next to the mountain range and bought the fruitful tiles just on the other side of the mountains. Hiawatha did not like that. It could have been a mistake since surely I will have those tiles plus the ones on the other side of Boston pillaged if I ever get into a war. But Hiawatha is usually not too warlike; although I'm sure he will covet my lands because he doesn't appear to have too much space to spam his cities like he usually does. I just finished Liberty and took a GS which I planted near Washington. Things are looking good.

• Ruins were pretty good: 60g, AH, Barbs, 95g, Scarcher, Culture, map, Scarcher, 90g.
• T26 GL goes, wow that seems early even on Deity.
• T36: Hiawatha asked and I accepted a DoF.
• T70: Hiawatha is mad that I built a city and bought tiles in "his" territory. Not good because I had to say too bad.
• T87: Uh oh, and unmet player has lost their capital.

Only wonder I went for was Oracle and I got it. Hiawatha is hogging wonders; might be good because I have a feeling he is going to hate me all game and so I might be able to capture his capital and take them. I did not get a religion; I didn't really try that hard since I was at war with LaVenta and stealing workers instead of trying to ally them; and I haven't been working Mt. Kailash. That's ok, I picked God King as my Pantheon and Hiawatha has already spread his religion, which is pretty good - Pagodas and Cathedrals, to Philadelphia and Boston.

 

[Nizef]

Just one observation: everybody seems to have a lot of coastal cities (which I expected), yet there seems to be very few Triremes? Are they too hard to fit in to the building queue?

 

[raider980]

I have to admit, I usually forget about Triremes because other things seem more pressing, and this time is no different. I did get Sailing rather late. At some point I remember thinking it will probably be hard to get by Pachacuti without open borders. I have no idea why I’m building a market in Net York instead of a Trireme though.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Just one observation: everybody seems to have a lot of coastal cities (which I expected), yet there seems to be very few Triremes? Are they too hard to fit in to the building queue?

For me, yes, but my game was slow because I did not get early worker steals, so my cities were working poor tiles, I did not get chops, and I had to build a few workers myself. I did end up buying two triremes, but those could only be used after getting open borders.

 

[gerishnakov]

I gave up on this one after I started my first Minutemen war with Brazil. I probably went for it too early, but warfare can be so tedious on the higher difficulties.

 

[lymond]

Lol..thought that I'd give this one a go. I'm not much of a Deity player at all. I tooled around with it some and I did win a peaceful Deity GOTM many years ago. I have a reasonable idea early game starts though execution is a different matter. Mainly I play emp/imm level games now and then for fun, warmonger style.

Anyway, I settled Wash on the PH to the NE for the coastal, faster start. Coast to the E on the river was probably better, but this spot had nice resources and the two marbles. Scout-Scout-Shrine to start. The shrine was a mistake though it did net me stone circles. After seeing the natural wonder, that was obviously going to be my next city. Usually, I don't bother with a reli on Deity, but with that wonder it would be a good chance. I should have gone settler third.

Scouted the immediate area. Generous amount of huts but I did not get the one I wanted most, other than pops, which was a culture pop. I got, if I recall, 2 pops, Archery (honestly my favorite freebie tech), some gold, scout-archer upgrade, and maybe something else. I even get a hut or two passed the "portal of hell".

Set up NY and had plenty of gold to by Kailish. In fact it was only 50 gold. This allowed me to easily get a reli, I was like the third or 4th civ. I took tithe, and surprisingly got pagodas, and then took the hermitage won (probably prod would been better though). I settled Philly on the sugar. Altanta was much later, after NC to grab iron. I bought the Lib in Philly, but slow built in the other 3. NC I felt was late though before t100. For one, culture was just brutally slow here early game so the close wonder boost policy was in when I started NC.

I met Iroqious, Inca, and Brazil very early - and as you can see by this point I have OB with Inca and met Monty on the other side. Hiawatha has been my friend - whew- the whole game. Inca is not yet, but it will soon be. As for Pedro, I have been worker farming from here. My scouting showed that he was boxed in so it was fairly clear he where is settlers were going. I stole 3 or 4 of his settlers in our perm war. Bribed in Hiawatha. Inca just refused to be bribed in though which is annoying.

I plan to settle 2 more cities later. (I'm actually quite a bit passed this point and Hia would annoying take a spot S of Philly...I think he may be the biggest city spammer)

New York will be a guild city since it has good food and is on a river.

I have no clue what I going to do though. I expect to at least catch up tech-wise after Edu, but peaceful culture is probably not going to win here.

One thing I have had no issue with this game is Gold. No wonders at this point. Iroquois and Inca are hoarding those big time, and someone else. I may have had a chance at Oracle, but had more pressing matter.

Barbs were not an issue much at all btw. However, that 3-tile island E of NY spawned an early camp which was going to be an issue for trade routes. It had 3 archers too. So I did have to build a trireme.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game? Surviving
- Where did you settle and what did you build first? PH to the NE. Scout-Scout-Shrine-Settler
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions? Biggest was going for a religion with Kailish and quaries
- What were your initial priorities? Getting empire/infra up as fast as possible which meant slowly
- What tech path did you follow and why? POT>Luxes>BW>Sailing-Philo
- What Social Policies did you choose? Tradition (culture was brutal in this game)
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them? 0
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick? Yes! Tithe>Pagodas>Hermitage>Texts

I will say this though not sure if it is considered so, but I think Wash's UA is underrated.

Spoiler Pics of my mighty empire :D :

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

However, that 3-tile island E of NY spawned an early camp which was going to be an issue for trade routes

When I spotted that camp, it already had two land units out, on the island, in addition to the barb in the camp. I believe (though perhaps someone can confirm or deny this) that a barb camp will spawn no more than three active barbarians in range of the camp, so in my game I just left the camp alone, and it never spawned any boats.

 

[qontroL]

When I spotted that camp, it already had two land units out, on the island, in addition to the barb in the camp. I believe (though perhaps someone can confirm or deny this) that a barb camp will spawn no more than three active barbarians in range of the camp, so in my game I just left the camp alone, and it never spawned any boats.

That camp pillaged 4 of my trade routes, it spawned the boat rather late and all my routes got pillaged in the span of 2-3 turns. I also left it alone, assuming the AI would deal with it

 

[so_what]

Played a little after taking a break from Civ5 for a few years:
- At T100, I had 5 cities up, researching towards Education while saving money to rush buy universities.
- Forward settled Brazil early game. I stole multiple workers so Brazil is weakened.
- Had a declaration of friendship with the Iroquois.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
Initial plan is a 4-5 city Tradition, then build a army mid-game and snipe off the culture runaways while Teching to Internet

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Settle on the hill by the river, build-> scout, scout, archer, settler

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
1st settler when for Natural wonder. Most of the AIs are pretty far away, so I probably need to wait for mid-game before doing any aggression. Initial plan was a 4 city tradition, but the fifth spot near Brazil had multiple lux, is to good too miss.

- What were your initial priorities?
Exploring and deciding on the city spots for my 4-5 city empire

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Luxury Tech->Philosphoy->Civil Service->Education
Tech path after Education I am still contemplating between Navigation or Gunpowder for Frigates or Minuteman

- What Social Policies did you choose?
Tradition->Patronage

- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
Just Oracle as the production is a little weak

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Did not get any religion, as i started working on the NW late. However, Hiawatha gave me Monastery