TSG 265 After Actions

[Nizef]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you use your UU?
- What technologies did you prioritize?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
- Final remarks?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Science victory T156. Honestly, I'm pretty pleased with how the game played out. Often my late game science timing is rubbish, either falling a tech or two short while bulbing, or having a couple of scientists and Oxford left. In this case, I spawned all my natural scientists (probably one more due to the coffee houses) just before Porcelain and Hubble; I had spawned two engineers this game (one was unavoidable with all the engineer points in the capital): one for Big Ben and one for Hubble, which I think is Ok, and I spawned no merchants. I managed to buy four (I think) scientists with faith - the next one cost over 4000, though I did have enough faith left for an engineer.

My weakest point this game was gold, as I had lost three gold wonders: Mausoleum went very early, Machu Picchu went pretty early (and I forgot to buy a mountain tile in Salzburg), and Colossus also went pretty early. That meant two things: the capital had to build one space ship part (3 turns), and I could not buy all factories, schools, and research labs. My approach was the same as in the Celts Settler game from the previous GotM: go Industrialization first (actually a reasonably safe bet for ideology, because in all GotM science victory games we have had coal in our region - though perhaps I should not get too comfortable ;-)) to engineer Big Ben and then buy factories and schools. However, without the Settler bonuses, my gold was not amazing, and I could only buy half my schools and factories. Later, I managed to buy 5 out of my 7 research labs. Finally, to get my victory down one turn, I had to sell a few opera houses (I built hermitage quite late, even though it probably wasn't necessary), some hydro plants and a factory. Not something I like to do, but given my game felt pretty competitive, I felt it was worth it this time.

One silly thing about this game is that I never founded Congress. As mentioned in the openings thread, my early game scouting was bad. Later I did send out a few units - two scouts, a knight and a caravel, but I failed to find the Iroquois (who had lost their capital to Denmark by the way). Perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, as I would have been tempted to sink 3/4 turns of production into World's Fair. My culture was only just enough though. Apart from Tradition, Commerce, and Rationalism I had put one point into Patronage, though in the end I did nothing with city states. I suspect the Austrian special ability is better when you have less land, and perhaps on the higher difficulty levels when the CS get a boost to their production etc - I wasn't interested in taking over 10-pop La Venta for instance.

 

[lymond]

Turn 179 Science Victory

Wow, your science is amazing BV. I'm trying to reconcile the difference in beakers. Your pop might be higher overall at a much earlier date, although naturally my Vienna has more pop due to just playing longer. I did not build any trade posts at all. I did get two observatories though.

I was pleased though with my finish. I'm not gonna come close to the pros here, but I think I am improving. I don't know what is optimal at this speed but happy with a sub-200. I was shooting for sub-t180 and just made it.

I settled in place. Vienna was an exceptional city. Based on my knowledge at the start I did not want to lose any desert hills for Petra. I ended up building Petra before NC as I was waiting on that last library anyway. After Petra, Vienna was just ridiculous. There was no point ever rushing a wonder (except Hubble) as Vienna could build them so fast. With that said I did not build ToA or Great Library. TGL was built by Nappy fairly early anyway so I don't think I had a chance. ToA might have been possible. I've generally changed my focus to just getting my expands up fast and worrying about early wonders later if any are available. Surprisingly, Denmark was hoggin wonders, including Mauso and ToA. But honestly, I did not pay much attention to these. I built most of the wonders, but I just waited for a mission or two to pop up and then Vienna would knock the wonder out in a couple of turns.

I went Tradition, ofc, but actually opened Honor for the barb culture on the 3rd or fourth policy. Generally, not an optimal strategy, but I was farming tremendous amounts of culture from killing barbs the whole game. I actually did get the buying policy in Commerce in time for Unis, though cash was not great in the early stage cause a) the AIs were terrible b) I was terrible with scouting.

I basically only knew Rome, France, and Denmark for a good portion of the game, which is silly really considering there were 3 other AIs on the same continent. It was a big map though.

Like BV, World Congress was a complete non-factor in this game with the first vote actually coming the turn before victory. (At one point after the World Congress started and the end of game, there was a host vote and then another vote. I think I realized that one of those votes must have been for World Leader and I was not paying attention. Thank goodness that did not pass)

I'm not exactly sure where I missed on an earlier finish, although I know my bulbing at the end could have been more optimal. I had a lot of GSs and bought at least 4 of them with faith. I think I should have started bulbing a bit sooner than I did, but ultimately had what I needed to finish up the last 10 to 15 techs in a few turns. But it was not a boom-boom buy parts in-one-turn deal, so I could have shaved at least a few turns. I built one part in Vienna, maybe two, and bought the rest.

As for wars, I only fought an eternal war with France but let Rome take his stuff as I did not want to bother with more cities and Paris was kinda crap anyway. JC was a pill the whole game though.

Klag was okay...my goal was to get it up fast so chose that spot, although the truffle area was better for growth. but it did have good production and forest to get out the first buildings decently fast. La Venta was kind of annoying there. I thought about taking her out, and she never had any good missions.

Prague was great early. Kept getting workers stolen which I would capture and return and then block so the next nearby barb could capture. I had like 300 points with Prague extremely early lol.

Lastly, with Desert Folklore, Kailish was really a non-factor although obviously I settled over there. I grab tithe, pagodas, production and IP.

Policies - Trad opener>Honor Opener>Finish Trad>Commerce to buy policy>Ration>Freedom. Oh, I did open Liberty at one point early with the idea of maybe going wider but decided against it - I breezed through Trad and had a policy choice before Commerce was available to me and did not think I needed Patronage, which I did not, so I opened Lib. I did take the production policy much later though for nothing else better. Freedom was straight to parts buying while taking the obvious stuff and a couple of happy policies, and then ignoring the rest.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I'm not gonna come close to the pros here, but I think I am improving. I don't know what is optimal at this speed but happy with a sub-200

I think on this map, there are a couple of players on this forum that could manage a ~T145. Anything faster than that and I would be very impressed.

As for wars, I only fought an eternal war with France

Actually, I think I was 100% peaceful this game. I did not declare war on any CS (they did not have workers early enough and/or not when my scouts were around), and I was peaceful with all the AI as well - very rare for me. Perhaps my early game could have been slightly improved by a few war declarations in order to get some gold in peace deals, though typically the AI was so poor it would rarely have been worth it.

 

[Nizef]

I think on this map, there are a couple of players on this forum that could manage a ~T145. Anything faster than that and I would be very impressed.

I am still hoping for somebody to finish before t133...

 

[Megalou]

I am still hoping for somebody to finish before t133...

Well, it’s not gonna come from me. Once again, I botched up the final phase of the game, bulbing the great scientists way too late, and wasting money on city states even after plastics. Is it the joy of collecting great scientists that makes me inert inert when it comes to using them? , Still, it was nice to have a pre-200 turn finish, t 191, and the map was brilliant.

 

[sebtanic]

Won turn 178.

A fairly typical science game, completely peaceful. I didn't even attack any city state.

This time I didn't take notes. Off the top of my head I remember I used 2 GS to bulb Plastics, and then had enough gold to buy labs in all 4 cities.

First GS I settled for an academy, all the others I bulbed near the end of the game. Bought 3 with science. Hard-built hubble and 1 SS part, bought the rest.

Was lucky to get my last natural GS turn 175, just before it was needed for Nanotech. Bulbed it t176, only one turn of research remained. Bought the last remaining SS part t177, and t178 our space ship took off

Side note: I met the last civ (Zulu) so late that there was only ever one Congress vote, on World's fair. At first I saved up 3 GWs to pop after world's fair, but turns out it was so close to the end of the game that it wasn't even worth wasting the production on it. I rather put all of it into science.

Anyway, I'm happy with how the game went. I think I managed the end game pretty well. Kudos to The Black Vegetable, seems like settling more cities did pay off for you in the end!

Let's all meet for a coffee in the coffee house! (Can you tell I'm a big coffee fan? hehe)

 

[fiddlesticks]

Science victory turn 154

Picking up from opening actions. Bought a settler in Graz -> founded Linz. Bought settler in Linz -> founded Bregenz. 1 turn settler in Vienna -> founded Klagenfurt. Used caravans to get these later cities. I think only Klagenfurt didn't produce a great scientist. Bought most labs after Big Ben (Vienna) and maybe the last one or two after mercantilism.

The end game was pre-build LToP and PT in Graz, Oxford in Salzburg (nanotech). Vienna built SoL -> Apollo -> Hubble. Bregenz was the last natural GS (turn 150 - garden and coffee house helped this timing), then Hubble and LToP GS's on turn 151 (bulbed ecology, telecoms and mobile tactics). PT on 152. Bulbed particle physics, but the GS was not enough to 1-turn it, so it finished on 153, bought last part and launched 154. Four faith bought GS. The last one for ~2,600 was around turn 150-51.

I met the Inca last, but not in time to make the WC of any use.

Missing ToA hurt population growth. That's the one wonder I wish I hadn't missed.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Science victory turn 154

Congratulations, well done. Also: darn

 

[fiddlesticks]

Really nice game @The_Black_Vegetable. You've got a better base and more science. From your turn 67 and final shot I bet you could've hit sub-150 by avoiding a natural GE. Getting GL early helps with that so the first GP is a GS not a GE. Also don't build more than 1-2 early GE wonders in one city (Stonehenge, ToA Chitzen Itza).

 

[sebtanic]

Really nice game @The_Black_Vegetable. You've got a better base and more science. From your turn 67 and final shot I bet you could've hit sub-150 by avoiding a natural GE. Getting GL early helps with that so the first GP is a GS not a GE. Also don't build more than 1-2 early GE wonders in one city (Stonehenge, ToA Chitzen Itza).

Yeah avoiding GEs is imporant.

I had 2 undesired GEs. One I planted next to the Mt Kailash city since it was low on hammers, the other I rushed some wonder with which would have been built in 4-5 turns anyway. Should have kept it for Hubble.

In the late game I micromanaged my cities to make sure I only get GSs, didn't pay attention to that before unfortunately.

 

[Skifff]

179

Exact same turn as lymond And I went Order instead of Freedom

I rushed to Radio at one point with 2 GS from wonders Porcelain Tower and Leaning Tower + Oxford. Allowed me to build factories (for science boost from Order) in two turn in pretty much every city, although I couldn't start right away because borders had to expand to a coal first. Fortunately it was just within range in 5th ring.

I love playing on quick speed, it feels like things progress. I got very lucky early game with the ruins, finding a pop ruin right away and eventually a second one. I decided to move capital a bit south, but then ended up moving it quite far from start position as I found a nice spot by the coast. Had big plans to feed in coastal trade routes, but ended up doing just one. In hindsight I have should have settled at least a fifth city to somewhere, either inland by mountains for observatory or by the coast to feed capital. Anyway, I wanted to try a different capital spot because I was sure not many people would move here. Overall the game would have went much better had I just stayed near the original start position.

Probably started bulbing too early. Felt like not nearly enough science / scientists. Soo many turns just waiting for research. Felt like it took soooo long without anything happening.

I got sauced by WLTKD bonus randomness... I got my first WLTKD on turn 165 in my smaller cities and a couple turns before the game ended I got WLTKD in my capital xD







Detailed writeup of the game in this Google Doc.

 

[Skifff]

Does Porcelain tower push the GS threshold higher or why do I hear people build that really late?

 

[Skifff]

@The_Black_Vegetable Why do you build forts? Do borders expand there more easily or something?

 

[lymond]

I kinda assumed the forts were just something for workers to do when there is nothing left for them to do. I deleted quite a few of mine at one point

Yeah, I never got King Day in Vienna the whole game. Vienna wanted Pearls and I could never find any. (Vienna probably woudla gone well over 50 with some king days) I think I met one city state later that had them but at that point I wasn't gonna waste the gold, even though I tried with a spy. That happens to me a lot actually..very annoying. Game should have had more balance with CS resources. Many have the same freakin' resources. Most of my other cities had at least 2 or 3 until they all wanted Pearls at one point.

I think each great person increases cost whether free or bought, but not totally sure. (writers, artists in a different bucket though but same I think)

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Why do you build forts?

Indeed, I have heard that borders grow more quickly to those tiles, and indeed I only do it when my workers have little else to do.

Porcelain Tower increases the Great Person counter, so you want to build it last, which is easy to do on Prince, but not always feasible on Deity.

 

[sebtanic]

By the way, I forgot completely about our UA of marrying city states! Did anyone even consider it?

 

[fiddlesticks]

I probably should have married in a city state around the time I hit labs ~130. I had the gold and the happiness. I forgot too.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

By the way, I forgot completely about our UA of marrying city states! Did anyone even consider it?

I did not have the money, though I'm not sure it would have improved my game. City states were around 10-12 population by the time I finished the game. Those would probably just about pay themselves in terms of added science cost, though there is also the culture cost to consider (unless you leave them puppeted, but then I suspect the science output will be much less), and without world's fair culture was already tight for me.

 

[sebtanic]

I probably should have married in a city state around the time I hit labs ~130. I had the gold and the happiness. I forgot too.

Yeah, same here, in the end game I had abundant happiness and gold. Annexing a city state would probably have helped my science. Also it would have let me have more than 2 maritime food routes, speeding up growth in the other coastal cities.