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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please attach your final savefile, state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.
- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were the Iroquois' unique abilities useful to you?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
I just finished. SV on turn 317. I'm pleased with that; it's before year 1900. But some of you will probably win by turn 250 or even earlier.
I played peacefully, but it was peace through strength. As I said in the opening actions thread, I researched Iron Working before Philosophy so I could build a couple of Mohawks. They came in really handy when the Danes came knocking on my door. After that dustup, I built a wonder that I almost never go for -- Terracotta Army. Harald (and Sulieman) were friendly after that, and nobody else was near enough to cause trouble. I had friendships all around, and lots of research agreements. But starting around turn 310 a bunch of denouncements; I'm not sure why. I don't think there was any actual backstabs, but not sure. I may JOMT and conquer the Ottomans, they were the first to denounce me and the rest may have just been following his lead.
Moving freely through wooded tiles in your own cities was interesting. I only needed a few of road tiles, and was able to eventually remove most those as my boundaries expanded. But it almost came back to bite me at the very end when I was moving spaceship parts from my expos to my capital -- it took 2 or 3 turns even though it wasn't all that far. If I'd known that, I would have built roads while I was researching the Apollo project. Mohawks extra strength in forest and jungle may have come in handy when fighting barbarians, I don't know. And I don't know if the longhouse is really an upgrade from a workshop or a downgrade, but with so many lumbermills and deer camps here, production was really good. And you get the extra production from forest whether the tile is improved or not, which is nice.
Tradition, Patronage, Rationalism, Commerce (I didn't finish Commerce), and Freedom. I bought all 6 spaceship parts with gold. I found the problem moving them to the capital with the first three booster rockets, so was able to work around it with the next 2 parts so I didn't waste a turn with one stuck in the capital preventing me from buying the Particle Physics piece immediately.
My free tech from the Rationalism finisher was Penicillin. Then I beelined Atomic Theory, and started bulbing scientists a couple of turns after that. (the tech boost from Atomic Theory wasn't as much as I expected) I bought 2 scientist with faith.
I had 6 cities; 3 really early, then 2 more after the National College, and finally the Great Barrier Reef very late. I wish I had discovered GBR sooner, but somehow when exploring that part of the continent, I didn't step on either of the tiles that can see it from the shore, and my three ships out exploring never made it that direction (they were on autopilot) That would have really made a great Petra city, but Petra might have been a trap with so many AIs.
Nobody else has finished it yet?? I guess I'm the only one stupid enough to accidentally stay up past 3:00 AM playing. (I thought it was about 12:30 or 1:00. Oops) Just one more turn...
Where the heck is my free courthouse? Surely this is a bug?
Yes, I had the tenet before I conquered Angband.
Yes, the same thing happened again as I took Constantinople.
At first, I theorized that maybe you had to annex the city before you got the courthouse, but it was not so.
The other part of the Iron Curtain tenet (more food for internal trade routes) worked alright.
Nobody else has finished it yet?? I guess I'm the only one stupid enough to accidentally stay up past 3:00 AM playing. (I thought it was about 12:30 or 1:00. Oops) Just one more turn...
Here we go, @zxcvbob . I didn't stay up as late as you but played some in the mornings. (It is still morning, you could say...)
SV on turn 266. What a cool and unpredictable map! Exploration continued to the end and I got my last goodie hut on turn 247 (85 gold, yay!). I realized that I like big map sizes much better than slower game pace (like marathon).
Here are two screenshots which happen to show all the cities I had in the end:
Brantford had Petra of course, but I was forced to settle Buffalo Creek first due to barbs. Buffalo Creek was a sad sight for a while as access to deer with camp took time to set up.
I didn't write an opening spoiler so here are some starting facts
Pantheon (helped by a faith hut) was Goddess of the hunt. I'm surprised that this wasn't the obvious choice for everyone.
Religion brought in Mosques, 2 faith per wonder, Church Property and the almost worthless Holy order. (Borobudur gave what missionaries I needed.)
I wanted to go Monarchy mainly because of the faster border growth and better happiness. Unfortunately I did not get a culture hut and didn't compensate that with an early enough monument, so it took all the 25 turns to get to the tradition opener. After the tradition tree was completed I went for the Exploration opener and the Maritime Infrastructure policy, just barely making it into the medieval era in time, before starting to work on rationalism.
- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
Early game: As I often do, I built one archer extra before starting on settlers at size 3 (two or three scouts, shrine and worker also came before the first three settlers) and so I ended up with 2 archers after a hut upgrade, and had some muscles against Denmark. This meant 2 captured settlers and 2 workers and also kept Denmark down to 3 cities. Worker stealing from city states was tough but I did snatch one from Melbourne who had an adventurous journey home.
I wasn't interested in capturing any of the poor Danish cities but focused on infrastructure - libraries, granaries, cargo ships, the powerful longhouses, National College (late! Turn 111!) Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (turn 92), Oracle (around turn 120). Notre Dame was also rather important, to stay out of happiness problems without using money which was better spent on science buildings.
The Ottomans started a rather pathetic war where they sent triremes to knock themselves out against Buffalo Creek one at a time.
Later stages: Not prioritizing war, I still built 4-5 galleasses and captured Istanbul simply because more cities were possible happiness-wise. Next, I wanted to capture Angband because it had most of the wonders that I didn't get - regrettably, Colossus was one of them - and made a 2-turn detour to Navigation to upgrade the galleasses to frigates. But the huge-ness of the map concealed from me the fact that Angband was situated on an inland sea and not reachable by frigates. The quest to liberate Angband was postponed until I had built 4 artillery, 1 cavalry and 2 infantry, who were guided by the frigates. I also captured Constantinople just a few turns from the end, although this had little meaning. And so, although not very warlike, I ended up controlling both Istanbul and Constantinople.
- Were the Iroquois' unique abilities useful to you?
Yes, it saved a lot of money, and so Wagon Trains to reduce road upkeep wasn't necessary. Of course, the longhouses were very powerful. But I didn't build a single mohawk warrior. Maybe it would have been smart for worker snatching.
- Which ideology did you pick?
I picked order for the great science possibilities - actually Oxforded Radio in order to reach the Workers' Faculties (cheaper factories, 25% science from factories) tenet faster. I found it a bit difficult to time the space race, usually picking Freedom. And I actually forgot to pick the Spaceflight Pioneers tenet, and had to use a Great Engineer for Sydney Opera House to get the free tenet. This probably cost 3-4 turns and the reason was that I was too eager to get some of the Aesthetics policies. I was also a bit late in changing food routes to production routes which may have cost maybe 1 turn.
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
See the screen shots.
Where the heck is my free courthouse? Surely this is a bug?
Yes, I had the tenet before I conquered Angband.
Yes, the same thing happened again as I took Constantinople.
At first, I theorized that maybe you had to annex the city before you got the courthouse, but it was not so.
The other part of the Iron Curtain tenet (more food for internal trade routes) worked alright. View attachment 749409 View attachment 749410
To get the free courthouse, you have to either annex or raze the city immediately on capture. If you view the city as soon as you capture it before you do anything with it, the courthouse is there. If you puppet the city the courthouse gets destroyed. It doesn't come back if you annex later.
At least that's how it always works for me. (the free courthouse on razing is very handy for keeping your happiness afloat on a rapid campaign)
Pantheon (helped by a faith hut) was Goddess of the hunt. I'm surprised that this wasn't the obvious choice for everyone.
I'm playing it again now, and that's the one I picked. It really helps city growth since I don't want to cut the forests along the rivers to build farms.
Having only 4 settled cities, my plan was also to go frigates and conquer more (after finishinig the game, I'm still not sure what the best strategy for this map is - 5/6 city Tradition? Liberty? or conquest like I did in my playthrough?). My tech path was longhouses - universities - navigation T142 (detour to guilds because I was still buidling some galleas). I went to Copenhagen first and then, despite having created the map, I went in the wrong direction by trying to sail north towards Russia. After finding the north a dead end, I went back for Istanbul, Carthage, the Dutch city of Utrecht (because it had built Machu Picchu before I could), and Kyoto. Then, I stopped my conquest, because it would take too long to get any conquered cities to be worth the extra science and social policy cost.
On a huge map like this, perhaps I should have prioritised Great Lighthouse more (it was built relatively early in Amsterdam) and opened up Exploration. Instead, I went Commerce after tradition, but this did allow me to buy all my public schools when I hit Scientific Theory turn 177 (having gone Industrialization first, and built Big Ben). T177 schools is not super quick, so I glad to have clawed back some time for a T222 finish. Even though I did not have Goddess of the Hunt, I did built Temple of Artemis, and of course I had cargo ships, so my cities were quite big and produced decent science.
Having only 4 settled cities, my plan was also to go frigates and conquer more (after finishinig the game, I'm still not sure what the best strategy for this map is - 5/6 city Tradition? Liberty? or conquest like I did in my playthrough?). My tech path was longhouses - universities - navigation T142 (detour to guilds because I was still buidling some galleas). I went to Copenhagen first and then, despite having created the map, I went in the wrong direction by trying to sail north towards Russia. After finding the north a dead end, I went back for Istanbul, Carthage, the Dutch city of Utrecht (because it had built Machu Picchu before I could), and Kyoto. Then, I stopped my conquest, because it would take too long to get any conquered cities to be worth the extra science and social policy cost.
Tradition opener, left side of Liberty, finish Tradition is good. I have no idea if it's optimal. I like it because it unlocks Pyramids, you get an extra hammer, and that first settler doesn't stop your growth. You can pick up the right side of Liberty late-game for the happiness boost and extra golden age and great scientist.
Why did you go on the warpath in a science game when I'm sure none of those civs were actually competitive? (I have a lot to learn about speeding up my science games) Thanks.
It's tempting, but I suspect the tradition finisher will be a bit late, unless you somehow have a crazy culture game. Also, the faster your game pace, the less time you have to get all the social policies you need. For most science games, I would like commerce and (of course) three policies in Rationalism as early as possible. For my playthrough I did actually manage to have Mercantilism plus Big Ben before Scientific Theory, but that was partly due to the fact that my timing was ~20 turns slower than a really fast science run.
I want to have many strong cities for strong late-game science, especially on a huge map where the base science cost is higher, and the science cost increase per city is lower. For normal-sized maps, I would already like 5-7 good cities, for huge maps maybe as many as 10. Of course, I can found more cities myself, but AI capitals will typically have more infrastructure in them, some nice wonders if you are lucky (not really applicable this game) and unique luxuries. Of course, building military units and researching military technologies is at odds with fast science victories, but sometimes the spoils of war can offset that.
If instead I were to found a lot cities early, I would not have the happiness to grow them, or the workers to make the necessary tile improvements.
- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Peaceful - no steals (initially). Mini-defense early (one steal there). Defend and counterattack later (one or two steals there).
- Were the Iroquois' unique abilities useful to you? Minimally to get city connections up a bit early. Ended up building full roads later to be certain on movement. Longhouses good on arborea but I likely should have chopped more.
- Which ideology did you pick? Order
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them? Six-city base. Two-city southern expansion. Two-city northern conquest. One aluminum city very late.
Looks like I should read/watch a Big Liberty guide. Also, an Order Science let's play (or guide) would be useful. Perhaps one could handle both. For reference, this was nine turns slower than the tradition turtle one month ago (TSG 276). However, the end game was faster here - only took 46 turns after plastics for this game but TSG 276 took me 68 turns after plastics. Had access to more scientists than I needed this time despite the aluminum city screwing up Oxford so an extra scientist bulbed the last tech and not faith buying any scientists. Spent 2000 faith on two information era pagodas since I had no other use for the faith and still finished with 1500 faith. Guess I could have completed the city state quests requesting a prophet, too.
Picking up a bit from my Opening Thread post, the initial defense was easy, and Suleiman's settler actually was just trying to move across my land to get elsewhere. When he brought a second warrior, I ended the war with both Suleiman and Harold on Turn 110 (I didn't want to deal with two "fronts", and I wasn't in a position to conquer anything).
Since I had decided to go for a reformation, I really wanted the Oracle. Unfortunately, it went early. Don't remember if it went during the war, but I know I didn't have my Turn 116 National College yet). Reassessing at that point, I prioritized, Sistine for the culture and Leaning Tower for the GP generation. If at all feasible, I also wanted to settle some more land somewhere. Secondary goals included taking Istanbul (Temple of Artemis), Petra for my southern desert, Notre Dame, at least one of the Theology wonders. Didn't think I would actually have the chance, but Petra was still available on Turn 134. Maybe if the marble had been bought and improved by then, I would have got it. Instead, Gustavus completed it (in an expansion) on Turn 145 - was either one or two turns before me. Didn't reach Education until Turn 142 and finally entered Renaissance via Acoustics on Turn 150. I was one policy short of the reformation at that point. Unfortunately, I was also a long way from even opening rationalism.
Two Turn 150 Screenshots - Iroquois North and Iroquois South.
The settler is headed for the barbarian-infested island. That island was the primary location, but I didn't want to settle only one more city. New lux is worth approximately two cities (perhaps that was a mistaken presumption), so I chose the nearby deer island to the east. Working the fish and all three deer gives enough food to support four specialists. Perfect! Plus, both cities were within religious pressure range of the southern desert city - ended up buying another missionary anyway though, just to be certain (and maybe to prevent a prophet spawn).
Spoiler:
Unfortunately, I decided to give up on taking the Temple of Artemis - I was having major happiness issues. But, Hagia Sofia had already been completed (Turn 147 in Osininka) - used the prophet to convert city states to the east (two quests). Sistine in capital on Turn 163, and Notre Dame in Grand River on Turn 169 - same turn Harold DOWs me again. It's a real DOW this time and I would have failed on higher difficulties. The terrain is obviously difficult which slows the attack, but it interferes with the defense too. Galleasses can only reach the shore (and adjacent to the city by going into it). For the most part, crossbows can also only reach adjacent tiles too. Ended up using the Iroquois ability to move as if roads to move adjacent and fire. Crossbows took some damage, but none died and Harold retreated. I counterattack and take Aarhus and Copenhagen on principle. Aarhus really should have been razed, but it was already my religion.
Approaching Scientific Theory during the war. I had opened rationalism and used a writer to get science from specialists. Next policy on Turn 183 when I'm only three turns away from Scientific Theory, so I take the still second reformation (Jesuit). I'm still two policies short in Rationalism though - no scientist generation boost and no university upgrades, yet. Plus, my faith wasn't good enough at that point to get all of the public schools. They were about 4-turn faith builds, so I mixed in some hammer builds, too. Even gold bought one. Leaning Tower was delayed a bit because I needed units to teach Harold a lesson, but Grand River completes it on Turn 188 - same turn I take Copenhagen and end the war.
Order Ideology (three factories) on Turn 206 - one turn before Radio. Finally, Theodora founds the World Congress on Turn 213. Oda recently completed the Forbidden Palace, so no proposal for me (city state allies counted since it's already the Industrial Era congress but we tied in delegates - tie goes to the Palace). Arts Funding. No World Fair. Don't remember exactly when, but I tried for the Globe Theater in Osininka for the writer (lost) and Taj Mahal in Grand River for the happiness, golden age, and city state quests (lost by one or two turns again). Success for the Porcelain Tower on Turn 225 (Grand River again).
Finally reached Plastics on Turn 232. Scientists bulb at about 12-13k (certainly high for me). Prepare three production cities (capital, Grand River, Brantford - Brantford builds Kremlin while waiting). Apollo in Grand River. Delay Satellites for a bit for 800-faith public school and research lab in Aarhus (Copenhagen hadn't converted yet, so it built the public school and gold-bought the lab). Complete Satellites and start Hubble in capital. Grand River starts on a part immediately upon completing Apollo. Buy nuclear plant in capital (and Grand River later). Run into aluminum problems so I couldn't buy two spaceship factories and still build parts in more than one place. A city state ally has had a mine on aluminum forever but none for me (too early, I guess). Try to gift the resource improvement but I can't - it already has a mine. Thus, the aluminum city which wrecks pre-built Oxford. Had enough scientists though, so it was just a matter of building the parts. Two in capital. Three in Grand River (used the order engineer to help the third part). One in Brantford.
Latest ancient ruin for me was around Turn 250 or so. Map (already had satellites).
Turn 275 Screenshots - Core Six Cities, Southern Expansion, Northern Conquests, Aluminum City.
I had sold labs and gone to gold focus on the non-production cities)
@ForkOfSpite Bursa was actually settled on an aluminium node, but I suppose you can't see that if the city has already been settled. You could also have bought or built some recycling centers for two aluminium each.
I still have't learned how to optimize my science strategy but that was a fun game, a win was always likely.
I decided to take out Suleiman as he was starting to city spam me, and was just starting to raze Bursa when Aluminium was discovered there!
My fleet of frigates also took Constantinople, I would have taken Moscow but it was land locked.
My city specialists were sub-optimal, but once everything came together the snowball effect was quite large. I dont know how to balance city growth vs specialists, especially when the specialists all produce science. My science was poor for most of the game. I had too much money in the bank, a sign I should have built a lot more with gold.
A relatively simple game, as the above posts shows, a win is available much sooner for those with experience.
Not building more coastal cities was a mistake, and I didnt use cargo ships until late game, another mistake.
My happiness was between 30 and 50 most of the game! Another sign of a poor strategy, but I don´t know the optimal use of cities yet. I was in a golden age for 50 turns and more to end the game.
@ForkOfSpite Bursa was actually settled on an aluminium node, but I suppose you can't see that if the city has already been settled. You could also have bought or built some recycling centers for two aluminium each.
That area didn't really fit in my settling plan. Was mildly annoyed when Suleiman settled it, but it was inevitable. Struggling for happiness for most of the game, so I left it (would have razed if I proceeded with the "Take Istanbul" plan). Personally, I think it's a flaw that spaceship factories and recycling centers are on opposite sides of the tech tree. Plus, I was using gold for nuclear plants and spaceship factories - settling Canandaigua Lake seemed more efficient.
One more mistake about this game haunted my dreams - I uploaded the starting map save rather than the Turn 275 victory save. At least that mistake is fixable.
That area didn't really fit in my settling plan. Was mildly annoyed when Suleiman settled it, but it was inevitable. Struggling for happiness for most of the game, so I left it (would have razed if I proceeded with the "Take Istanbul" plan). Personally, I think it's a flaw that spaceship factories and recycling centers are on opposite sides of the tech tree. Plus, I was using gold for nuclear plants and spaceship factories - settling Canandaigua Lake seemed more efficient.
One more mistake about this game haunted my dreams - I uploaded the starting map save rather than the Turn 275 victory save. At least that mistake is fixable.
It seems like waging war against Suleiman may deter him from settling our continent. Black Vegetable, lerrocco and I all captured Istanbul, and in our games there are no Ottoman expos on our continent. Apart from AIs civs simply being crippled, I sometimes feel that they get too scared of forward settle, which is an interesting part of the early warmongering concept.
He settled 3 expos on my island while I was waiting for a research agreement I had with him to expire. That's why I went after him. I was building for an attack on Russia, but the gathered army (fleet) was better served taking him out and he some nice wonders too.
He settled 3 expos on my island while I was waiting for a research agreement I had with him to expire. That's why I went after him. I was building for an attack on Russia, but the gathered army (fleet) was better served taking him out and he some nice wonders too.
The reputation ingredient is a bit unfun, I think, based as it is on rather clumsy AI. But I do know a few tricks like voting for the winning UN host when you can’t win yourself (Quite sleazy), not declaring on a friend, and never lying when they want to know what your troops are doing around their borders…
I'm playing it again, and Suleiman settled a city in the desert 4 tiles east of my GBR Petra city -- taking the incense and one of the sheep hills (maybe both sheep hills, I don't remember) Then he never bothered to improve the incense. A while later, he swarmed by continent with settlers, and I declared war and captured them all. Razed that awful little city, and then captured his other 3 cities while I was on a roll. I razed all of them except Istanbul, which was nice and I eventually annexed it. Nobody cared that I took him out. I guess he wasn't well liked by the other AIs, although that usually doesn't matter.
T243 Science victory. I massively overshot the amount of GSes. I planted my first 2 and kept the rest for bulbing 8 turns after buying all 8 research labs. I completed oxford in a sattelite city on the last turn, and even had a prebuilt porcelain tower to 1 turn left over.
I don't know why I keep overshooting the tech tree so much in my games.
- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
Only warred ottomans cause he had colossus which i wanted.
- Were the Iroquois' unique abilities useful to you?
The UA helps a tiny bit in saving a few gold pieces, but not a lot. The roads are very confusing with movement, sometimes we think we nailed down in which situations it should work and shouldn't, and then I still find exceptions. In the endgame I just put full railroads between all cities.
I had 2 of the special warriors, but i didn't use them much. They tanked some shots of ottoman cities.
The long house has been discussed enough. This map had a lot of forest to use them, but it stays a difficult decision how much to chop forest vs how much to keep.
- Which ideology did you pick?
Order for factory science. I had big ben and commerce cheaper buying to buy 3 factories, then i picked order till cheaper factories, and built factories in all other cities while buying some public schools. The timing was nice. After research labs my science was around 1950s and reaching around 2050 endgame.
I had 250 hammers per turn on space ship parts in akwesasme, a little lower in Osinaka. Osinaka made 1 part, akwasame made 2 parts. Capital made 2 parts and engineered 1. Capital reached like 333hammers per turn on SS parts. I got this by buying buildings like nuclear plant and spaceshipfactory. I also sent like 7 hammer trade routes to capital and 2 to akwesasme.
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
7 cities from myself and 1 kept, the capital of ottomans.
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Just one more turn...
