TSG 278 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game? Have you played on an Arborea map before?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[ForkOfSpite]

So many mistakes (including underestimating the difficulty). Miss clicks when scouting is the least of those mistakes. This is a Turn 73 update rather than Turn 100.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game? Have you played on an Arborea map before? Approach = Big Expansion. Arborea Experience = No (and it shows).
- What tech path did you follow and why? Pottery, (free Mining), Archery, Animal Husbandry, Trapping, Wheel, Masonry, Bronze Working, Sailing, Calendar, Optics (in progress). They all seemed useful at the time (forgot that mohawks require iron working).
- What Social Policies did you choose? Liberty (Opener, Republic, Collective Rule, Citizenship)
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick? Seventh pantheon (One with Nature)

Huge map = triple scout to open which was perhaps not such a good idea. I was presuming this was a forested pangea, but when loading the save game, I noticed that the Arborea symbol showed two land masses. Opened with the three scouts anyway. Immediately on Turn 0, I noticed that the mountain, gold, hill that could be a Turn 1 settle also had a river. Seriously considered moving there, but decided to SIP instead (might be the only good decision I've made thus far). One of the scouts upgraded, so I built another one rather than an archer even though it was already looking like this is not a one land mass map. Ended up deleting a scout later for economic purposes.

Major early problem - the economy. I bought my first worker as soon as I could, but then I had to work gold tiles to avoid going broke. Each monument and settler continued to stress that balance, and I was broke for one or two turns (not necessarily critical - only had base 8 science output at the time). Built an early caravan to send to the nearest neighbor - for the gold. Researched Wheel early because I thought that would provide free city connections - forgot that doesn't work for forest/jungle outside culture borders. I'm concerned about this economic disaster I'm facing - need units fast and still need some buildings too (haven't even started any libraries). As archers come in, I guess I can delete scouts (or even delete them now), but I might just have to face the science penalty. Absolutely have to keep GPT high enough to avoid disbanding units, though.

Second biggest regret - did not prioritize getting a pantheon. Goddess of the Hunt became the obvious choice early (makes sense that Arborea would have a lot of deer camps) but was paralyzed a bit when I found Mt. Kailash. Decided to delay the shrine a bit just knowing I could use Kailash to get what I wanted. But eventually, I decided it would be better to build the shrine rather than wait for the free Liberty settler (didn't really have the hammers to build an early settler). But then, the pantheons went. Goddess of the Hunt went third or fourth which was disappointing, but the One With Nature backup will eventually be okay (settled Kailash and the Great Barrier Reef). However, the Kailash expansion isn't big enough to work it yet, and the Barrier Reef expansion hasn't expanded its culture borders yet (and I can't afford to buy the tiles). Ended up with the seventh pantheon on Turn 51 (worked Kailash for one turn to get there).

Biggest regret thus far is not going Tradition, but I was fixated on big Liberty. Peaceful expansion is probably done, and I only have six cities - this feels like the "go home" option from my announcement thread post. A 4-city (or even 5 or 6-city) coastal tradition empire seems like it would have been strong. Although six isn't exactly "Big Liberty", it's still too big according to the AIs (would likely be so even on Deity). Suleiman finds me via trireme and immediately denounces - think I only had three or four cities at the time. City 5 comes soon thereafter, and I decide that's certainly not big enough. There's still one more place I planned to settle, so might as well found that one too. Now it's Turn 73 and I'm facing a double DOW from Suleiman and Harold. I doubt they can do anything, but I only have one archer and one warrior (and two scouts). Only one of the scouts is in position to do anything against Harold.

Turn 51 Screenshot - Pantheon Choices

Spoiler :

Turn 73 Screenshot - Double DOW

Spoiler :

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm a little after turn 100. Turn 112. I just finished the National College. It was kinda late because I prioritized Iron Working over Philosophy when I saw who my nearest neighbor was. And my expo survived the first war with Harald. A few turns ago I saw a settler headed my way; I think he was going to settle 4 tiles away from my city, so I blocked it with an archer and a Mohawk and it went away. I fully expect Harald to be back with berserkers soon, that will be tough to deal with. It's time to build 2 more settlers...

Social policies were straight Tradition and the Patronage opener (Commerce is not unlocked yet) Religion is Religious Idols, Tithe, and Pagodas. I built the Mausoleum because I have a few quarries, and nobody else was building it long after it should have been gone. I would have rather had ToA, HG, or Colossus but those were already taken -- even though I was really fast to Iron Working. I'm trying to build Oracle right now in my first expo but with so many AIs in the game I don't expect to get it.

What a strange map!

I just checked the demographics for the first time, and they are better than I expected. One of my mohawks got upgraded to a longsword by an ancient ruin. That might come in really handy, but right now he is *far* away from where the action will take place.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Picking up from the double DOW on Turn 73 ...

Worked gold tiles almost to the max. Switched research to construction followed by mathematics and currency (then I finished optics). Switched Osininka and Grand River production to archers. Finished the Pyramids in Onondaga followed by a spear and then a caravan. Built a couple triremes (Grand River and Akwesasme). Defense not needed - neither Harold nor Suleiman sent an army. Conquest not feasible due to the still tenuous economy and somewhat strained happiness. The Liberty golden age helped significantly (enough to let me buy the second Great Barrier Reef tile, at least), but I didn't want to spend gold to upgrade archers. So, built a few happiness buildings and then started libraries. I expect Grand River will be the last one - I could reduce the time a bit (at the cost of some gold per turn), but it's pointless to try to "optimize" at this point.

Completed Liberty on Turn 88 - same turn I spawned my first prophet. National College is nowhere in sight (at that time and still a ways off now - no idea how long it'll take to build), so I decided to pick up a second prophet to enhance immediately (one with nature, tithe, pagodas, religious community, and religious texts). Hoping that religious texts will make it so I don't have to buy a missionary - cities might not convert quick enough though, and even if they do, Akwesasme won't convert on its own. Might want to either get a missionary later or use the next prophet to spread. Since this is a science victory game, planting a scientist would make sense, but at least I had a reason for the immediate enhance (help gold and happiness faster - a bit of culture too). One other temptation - get an engineer, walk it to Akwesasme, try to engineer Petra. If successful, that would have even helped my gold situation a bit via the free caravan. But, the first pantheon to go was desert folklore, so at least one of the AIs might have still beaten me to it (but, Petra is still available on Turn 97, so I probably could have had Petra in my Great Barrier Reef desert expansion).

Next social policy - I could research guilds right now and get there in time to open Exploration. But, that would delay the National College even longer (I still don't have Philosophy). So, I think I will go Piety and try for a reformation. Hope for Jesuit Education, but To the Glory of God works as the backup (faith for any great person).

Only one unit has died in the still ongoing war against Harold and Suleiman. When I put a spear in range of Aarhus, Harold sent a couple warriors after it. One of them pursued when I withdrew, so I killed that with archers. Harold has left a unit exposed on the coast near Aarhus, but I can only attack it from one tile. Trying to farm some xp and, more importantly, a general from it. I'd use the general to help my desert city get some useful tiles (including a new luxury). Might be dangerous to wait that long though. He's willing to make peace, but will that still be the case later? Suleiman didn't send anything until recently - one warrior and a settler:

Turn 97 Screenshot - Suleiman's Lost Settler

Spoiler :

I was moving my nearby warrior down toward the coast (to prevent barbarians) and then suddenly, Suleiman's warrior was ahead of me. I started heading back to protect my territory, and now, his settler appears. I can't get rid of it this turn, but I'm not sure where he's going. Istanbul is coastal, so did he really move inland to settle on the other side of the marble (and forward settle me a bit more). Maybe he's just going towards a 4-tile island with whales, and that's the fastest route?

So, I needed to take a break to think about what to do. I considered buying the forest tiles SE and E of my warrior - acts as roads might allow be to get to the settler. Unfortunately, that's not an option - can't afford both tiles. Can cities be settled adjacent to enemy culture borders? If not, I could buy one forest tile to prevent him from settling this turn. Might buy me enough time to get to capture the settler. Should I wait to see where he's going? He's willing to negotiate peace and give me his only expansion. If he settles, I could probably take that one instead and raze it. I do not yet know how I'll handle this.

As for Harold, he's willing to peace. He also only has the one expansion (not willing to part with it). He has a bit of gold - a little more than 100. He also has one copy of whales. Maybe I should take Suleiman's real expansion and, if I don't like it, offer to Harold for his gold in the peace deal? That's not a serious consideration (I can just offer him a spare gold lux for it), but I might overthink and actually try it. Who knows, maybe that expansion is actually really good but Suleiman just hasn't improved any of the resources it might have?

Why am I making this game more complicated than it needs to be???

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Can cities be settled adjacent to enemy culture borders?

Yes, buying tiles has no effect (although sometimes the AI changes its mind about settling in case some tiles are taken). The only restriction is that he needs to be 4 tiles from any city to be able to settle (and of course he can't settle on a tile owned by you).

 

[Rhodro]

My 100 turns
I went liberty for the free settler and worker, because heavily forested maps have slow growth, slow exploration and usually difficulty in stealing workers on lower difficulties.
I went with 3 scouts because of the huge map.
I surprisingly managed to snag a settler and worker from denmark, and 2 workers from Ife. Ife is extremely stingy though with creating new workers. Still at war with them.
With 1 worker built in capital, 1 worker bought with gold, and 2 from pyramids, I have more then enough workers for now.

I have all policies in liberty, except the last one. I decided to open tradition first to get a little bit more border growth, which is also atrocious on this map. Soon I will finish liberty and get some extra happiness from city connections. Which is really needed.
Wonders wise i got TOA and pyramids. With oracle I will probably open commerce since gold is so difficult. (Gold problems happen so often with liberty)

Ottomans already denounced me, he thinks i'm spamming too many cities, hilarious.

I gold bought shrine early, got faith from natural wonders, because i found mt kailash early, and right before i could pick pantheon i found great barrier reef. This should get me a bunch of pagoda's.
Got NC around turn 95-ish. Immediately after that 2 more settlers. I'm very desperate for gold now so that i can buy insence and truffle tile.
I also want to settle 2 more cities. That would give me 8 cities that will generate a lot of GS. Good spots are limited though. Maybe 1 to the gems and pearls NW of the capital.

Spoiler :

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Yes, buying tiles has no effect (although sometimes the AI changes its mind about settling in case some tiles are taken). The only restriction is that he needs to be 4 tiles from any city to be able to settle (and of course he can't settle on a tile owned by you).

Thanks. I ended up just waiting to see what he was doing. The warrior fortified to heal and the settler moved one tile NW. Captured with my scout on Turn 98. Later, he snuck another settler all the way through - died in the water off the coast of Osininka.

 

[sebtanic]

I haven't read the other posts in detail yet, just had a peek to see how everyone is doing in terms of population and science. Also interesting to see where everyone settled.

I tried not to peek at the minimaps though. This map is complex and fun to explore, so I'm trying to avoid spoilers before I'm a bit deeper into the game.

Here's my game at turn 100:

I went Tradition and prioritized growth. Have 4 nice cities, each with 2-3 fish and several luxes. Built lighthouses before libraries, will be starting NC when the last library is through in the NE expo. Have 2 food trade routes to capital.

Currently building work boats and archers. I think I only built 1 worker, rest was captured.

I DOWed Harald as soon as I met him (a tactic I learned here in the forum), killed one or two of his warriors, and then eventually peaced out for 300g + 5gpt.

Nonetheless I've decided Harald has to die. He pretends to be friendly but I know he'll backstab me if I don't kill him first. So I want to dispatch him from the game before meeting everyone else ideally, to avoid the diplo penalties.

With this in mind, I've built 4 archers so far. They'll be upgraded to CBs (just finished researching Construction) and then I think I'll go after him.

My game notes so far:

- Ruins
t7 pop ruin next to mt kailash
t11 scarcher
t14 map
t16 calendar

- Religion & Policies
t29 Pantheon - Goddess of the Hunt
t87 Rel - Tithe, Swords to Plowshares
t99 completed Tradition

I met a Russian boat a few turns ago and exchanged embassies. Damn she is far away... Fascinating how few AIs I've met at turn 100!

I blocked out the minimap in my screenshot to avoid possible spoilers.

 

[lerrocco]

I took the plunge too.

3 city Tradition with Honor opener. I realise I am poor at timing my policies and will make the next policy before the medieval era, so I might open Liberty as well in a few turns, maybe the Pyramids are still available? I would have opened commerce and I need the cash!

Harold came marching south but I just built enough comp bows for him to turn around, so I built Terracotta Army and followed him north. I will take his capital as my fourth city, though I may try and get a settler down the barrier reef and incense if I can manage it before. I technically have a fourth city but will raze it, so if I build a 4th after I raze it will it qualify for free builds? Guess I will find out.
(EDIT: Copenhagen fell too easily, so that became my fourth city, which I kept. When I built my fifth city it had a free monument. )

Settled towards Harold and took the gems (still chopping the jungle though). Third city for the faith mountain and worked this city in starvation for the Pantheon, and Goddess of the Hunt was still available! 2 worker steals and one built. Tithe and pagodas.

After I take Copenhagen (will be easy) plan is to turtle to a science win. I may need some army to take out a winning rival?

I went for construction and was aiming for machinery before bee-lining plastics, but this may be a mistake. 3 city NC. Have the statue of Zeus as well.

My army is a tad large and costly, but it will be upgraded over time in case I have to defend my shores. I do have mohawks but lost one taking Aarhus, I will upgrade the warrior before Copenhagen.

No fleet yet, I didnt settle on the south coast, which may have been a mistake, but I hope the port for the Gt Barrier Reef will make amends for this.

Screenshot is T106, but essentially the same at T100.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Having created the map a few weeks ago, I was also eager to try it out. I had not really anticipated my city placement to turn out so awkward. The Kailash settle was reasonably straightforward, but I was not sure what to do with the land to the north or the south. A canal city on the citrus would have made sense, but I preferred a spot a few tiles to the east. I wanted another city south for Petra, but the spot I chose (to also use GBR) was just too far from the capital to send cargo ships (until harbors anyway). Hence, I ended up with 4-city tradition with the second and third city connected via the inland sea, but the capital and the Petra-expand-to-be without any cargo support.

For religion, I went with One with Nature, although I am curious how the game would have gone with Goddess of the Hunt (I think it was still available, although that is by no means guaranteed if you skip the shrine to get the pantheon via Kailash). Wonder production was a bit of a mixed bag. After settlers the Great Library was still there, but I suppose I was lucky I lost it after puttnig only one turn into it. I was more disappointed to be beaten to Hanging Gardens by a few turns, in Akwesasme. Petra and Colossus are under construction.

Like @ForkOfSpite I was double war-decked by Denmark and Ottomans; I was surprised Ottomans were so hostile. I had only done moderate warring against Denmark (one settler steal) and one war declaration against Ife (only one late worker - after some time with no second worker I gave up camping the city). The wars were not dangerous though, only mildly annoying. Even on Deity double declarations are often less dangerous than imagined, because the AI typically is not ready with an army to invade, if they make a spur-of-the-moment decision to jointly declare (it seems to me).

So far, the game feels a little bit slow. It took a long time to get all my libraries up, so NC is still under construction on turn 100. Not getting many steals off meant I was low on workers and had to build a few. Also, I did not meet many AI, so I did not enjoy many tech reduction costs.

 

[raider980]

I wanted to spam lots of cities this game. I have played Arborea map before, in fact I hate it for any other Civ because of the difficult movement but its perfect for Iroquois. (Really they should have made it so Iroquois units could move through Forest and Jungle even outside their territory, it would maybe be a little more powerful than the Inca but it would make Iroquois not bottom a of the barrel Civ.).

Went full Liberty with a detour to open Tradition for faster expansion to get all those camps... for my Pantheon of Goddess of the Hunt. Did get a religion and took standard Tithe and Pagodas.

SiP for the capital and when I found Mt. Kailash, I built a Settler before the Liberty Settler; they ended up coming out only two turns apart lol but that turned out well because I moved the second one up north to secure the fertile lands across the Tropical Fruit Ismuth. Good thing I did because Harold was sending settlers to grab the territory for himself. I stole his first unguarded Settler then he protected the rest, luckily, I was able to block them so they didn't steal the Citrus Canal City location - looks like most people couldn't resist a nice canal city either!

I was going to go for a 4-city NC but when I found the GBR I had to delay it. So will get a late NC with 5 cities. After that the plan is to spam as many settlers as possible whenever I find a viable city location. I will try to keep it peaceful but may not be able to since oddly, Suleiman denounced me very early, like T30, for no reason that I could see. And after we peaced out from our initial war, Harold asked for a DoF but then backstabbed me and denounced me too. We shall see!

 

[sebtanic]

I didn't find GBR until much later (than turn 100). There was a barb camp in the way that blocked my scout's access to the southern peninsula. My troops were bound by the war against Harald, so I kind of forgot about exploring that part of our continent.

I did settle a 5th city down there eventually when I saw how juicy the spot is, but it was long after completing NC.

I like that the science penalty for extra cities is only 2% on this map. Makes it much more viable to settle cities mid-late game.