TSG 279 After Actions

vadalaz

Emperor
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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Announcement thread | Opening actions

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were Japan's unique abilities useful to you?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
 
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Turn 310 Diplomatic Victory!
- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Peacefully
- Were Japan's unique abilities useful to you? A touch of culture is always nice. UU wouldn't have been useful without receiving it at the beginning.
- Which ideology did you pick? Freedom - switch to Order (Statue and then Darius 2-turned me for Kremlin even though I used an engineer for it)
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them? Three - SIP, West of Fuji, South of Tyre
Spoiler :
Executing adwcta's Guide to Playing Small on Deity (featuring Piety) certainly had some problems. Plus, I'm sure I didn't (and still don't) understand exactly what the guide was trying to convey. This ended up similar to a typical economy + science push game. Except, even at max science, I never broke 1000 beakers per turn. I have my doubts as to whether this strategy of getting the tech discounts "should work" on lower difficulties, but perhaps it was my lack of execution. While I was growing during the medieval era, a couple of techs were discounted. I'm sure I had some discounts in the renaissance too, but it felt like I was leading the way for the most part. Espionage didn't work at all - 17 turns in Persepolis, so I switched. Never found anything even close to that fast again. Carthage was slower. I had completely eclipsed Alexander. Berlin was slower. Checked Persepolis again - it would have taken about 45 turns for one tech. Plus, no one was trying to steal techs from me.

The World Congress was founded by me on Turn 210. Darius was my pawn for proposing the World Religion, and he conveniently had the Forbidden Palace already (so he got the second proposal). For the industrial era congress, I didn't have enough city states yet (Darius was aggressive with city states but never complained about be getting to close to them), so he remained host naturally - I voted for him anyway, of course. Darius finally proposed the World Religion on the third round. He could have proposed World Ideology at that time, but that would have worked too (didn't need to, but I ended up switching to Order). In the end though, it didn't matter - I way overshot Globalization while still waiting to vote on the third round proposals (three great scientists spawned plus four faith scientists).

Having an active religion was certainly fun - and it allowed four faith scientists. The fifth cost 6000 faith which looks like it would have been the same turn as the World Leader vote (i.e., one turn too late if I didn't already have globalization). Pedro founded the second religion. The next two were overseas (Alexander and Haile). Dido has a pantheon and Darius got very late pantheon, too. Eventually, Dido founded via Hagia Sophia. Later, I successfully spread to Bismarck and had a prophet on the way to convert Casimir too, but that one had to turn around and help out in Persia again.

Religious wars - me vs. Pedro for Persia. I won!
Spoiler :

T310-TSG279-FinalReligionStatus.jpg

(That screenshot is a bit misleading since the vast majority are late city spams by Dido and Darius. For the relevant portion of the game, I had about 17 cities or so.)

It seems odd that there's no gold follower belief. Tithe is good founder belief but can't really spread like Pilgrimage does. Final religion was one with nature, pilgrimage, mosques, feed the world, itinerant preachers, unity of the prophets. I chose feed the world (+1 food shrines and temples) rather than swords into plowshares (+15% growth rate if not at war) because it was more immediately useful for my expansions. Plus, I figured that might be better for city states to let them grow more (and thus, more science for me when allies). No idea which one would have been better though.

Diplomatic relations with Darius and Pedro were good for the entire game (at least, it was after I gave gifts and spread religion to Darius). Dido was less certain (she was jealous of some wonders and city states), but it was mostly good. Relations with Bismarck went well, too. Mostly continuous research agreements with Darius and Bismarck - those were useful. A couple with Dido and a couple with Pedro (could have had more with Pedro, but those were worthless).

Ultimately, even though I never really saw the benefits of the tech discounts, I still think this "play small from behind" strategy has some merit. If you have bad land but a source of faith, this might help to stay out of the Deity AI's way to survive long enough and win. I haven't figured out a way to win with bad land, so I'm looking forward to trying it out on some random maps.

Turn 200 Screenshots: (Cities and Literacy - Oxford in Osaka the next turn for Industrialization)
Spoiler :

T200-TSG279-status.jpg

T200-TSG279-literacy.jpg

Turn 310 Screenshots: (land and demographics)
Spoiler :

T310-TSG279-DiploV.jpg

T310-TSG279-demographics.jpg

 
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Diplo on turn 315. I hit the information era long before that (Sydney Opera House->Rationalism finisher->Telecommunication), but then there was almost 30 turns to wait for the first world leader vote.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were Japan's unique abilities useful to you?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
Very early war with Persia -- I declared war as soon as I met them and didn't even know where the city was -- then peaceful until near the end when Pedro was getting very annoying trying to convert my cities (I probably waited too long to start bulbing my great scientists because they were surrounding Osaka to keep a prophet away. All the other cities had inquisitors), so I declared war and captured his great prophet, his 2 largest cities, and took a third city in the peace treaty.

The samurai fishing boat thing was very useful. "Bushido" was somewhat useful when fighting barbs and during the 2 wars, especially the first war where my samurai had the cover 2 promotion and was fortified next to the city (I didn't have any iron until the last turn of that war right before I captured the city), taking all the hits while my archers pelted the city with arrows. I did build a couple of zeroes and used them a little against Brazil, but they were nothing special because I was so far ahead at that point. If he had triplanes or GW bombers it would have been more interesting :)

Freedom!!

Seven cities at the end. Three self-founded, one annexed (Persepolis), and 3 puppets that have just come out of resistance and are ready to be annexed (one is an island off the screen) I captured Persepolis early enough to get the free monument and aqueduct 👍

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T240 diplo victory.

I could not find Poland! From the opening, I kept playing pretty quickly, so it first took me some time to realise I had not found all players yet, and then I had to search the waters a bit more carefully. I did have some ships in the water (I had gone navigation in order to conquer the AI), but I had not scouted west properly. I finally met Poland around T170, finally setting off the world congress council rounds. Having started the world congress so late, could this finally be the game where I pull off that elusive 1-cycle diplo victory? No.

The screenshot below shows I was quite close. On turn 199 the congress convened, and I was one turn off entering the Atomic era. With more careful play in the turns leading up to the vote, I could certainly have made that. However, I also still needed to take out two more Polish cities before I was down to the required number of civs to trigger the world leader vote. So, somewhat close, but no cigar.
One_turn_off.png

As is often the case in a diplomatic game, especially those where you just fail to reach a timing, the final forty turns were a bit boring: making sure I had enough gold to buy all the city states, and keep warring the AI to ensure they interfere as little as possible (in the end only Berlin was left). Also, to bolster my score I set about building some wonders and great works of art.

I was careful not to enter the information era, because I anticipation that would trigger another host vote, pushing back the victory even more turns.
Japan_victory.png
 
I was careful not to enter the information era, because I anticipation that would trigger another host vote, pushing back the victory even more turns.
Fairly certain there is no "Information Era Congress/UN" so no more host votes after UN host is set. You remember ever playing any tough late games where at least half of the AIs reach that age? Alternatively, if you still have any saves before winning, you could easily test with this game.
 
Alternatively, if you still have any saves before winning, you could easily test with this game.
Ah good point. Unfortunately, I did just lose all my autosaves by restarting and seeing if the Samurai could take out Persepolis early. It could, btw, but supported by two archers, and after improving my iron.
 
T271 Diplo

Honestly, I was puzzled why this game was so slow, but seeing Veg finish around T240 makes me think it wasn't that bad. Still, I thought I played a fairly focused game with an emphasis on science, but I still blew. Granted, Diplo has to be my absolute worst VC. There is some trick to the timings that I just have not figured out.

I used a peaceful approach except for eliminating Persia early. I used him to farm workers and did not let him settle either, so I could grab the spots I want. 3 city NC and then took out Darius. Sam was good for stealing stuff and getting money from CSs. I thought me NC and Unis were fairly well timed, and did the 3 in Commerce. I was probably slow to Ratio though. But no clue why things were so slow after Education.

Easily secured all the CSs by the time it counted with missions, spies, and lotsa money. Alex, ofc, was a pain for a while but eventually could not keep up with my wealth.

Really puzzling here is that the AIs did not get an idealogy except for Biz on literally the last turn. I went freedom.'

(oh..and completely forgot the Sam ability...wasted a lot of money and hammers on workboats..ugh)


Spoiler Mighty Japan :


1766149401782.jpeg
 
Won turn 241.

Mostly peacefully, after eliminating Persia early on. I also DOWed Brazil when he converted my capital with a GP and then camped it in my lands despite having promised not to do this anymore. I killed a few of his units, without really aiming to take any cities. He did offer me an expo in the peace deal, which I razed. That must have scared him off, he did not send any more prophets or missionaries my way afterwards.

Previously, my holy city (Osaka) had gotten converted to Dido's religion though, and stayed there for a long time. It was the only religious city at the time. Took me awhile to gather enough faith for a GP and convert it back.

That was a bummer because I lost a lot of gold, happiness, and faith, as well as the 10% extra food from my pantheon. Gotta be hyper vigilant with foreign missionaries and GPs entering your lands. I almost never give open borders these days.

The end game was straightforward. Two cycles, first one World's Fair, second one World Ideology: Freedom.

Bulbed 4 GS to reach Telecommunications 3 turns before the 2nd vote.

I lost the world congress hosting to Alex inadvertently, he had 2 votes more than me. I preemptively DOWed him before the World Leader vote in turn 240 so he wouldn't snatch any CS allies back. Won with 40 votes for WL.

Game notes:
t107 Hanging Gardens
t113 National College
t122 Oracle
t125 Hagia Sophia -> founded last religion with the GP: Tithe, Rel. Centers
t150 enhanced: Rel. Texts, +2 faith from Wonders
t153 Persepolis (GLH, Chichen Itza, Mausoleum)
t155 Notre Dame
t158 Alhambra (built more wonders, but didn't keep track of them all)
t162 defeated Persia. Kept Persepolis and Susa (Mt Fuji), razed the inland city
t210 won WF
t241 won WL

Screenshot_20251220_224455.png
 
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So is it better to take Darius out immediately? Or wait a while (just steal his workers) and let him build a few wonders first?
I played around with the start a bit more, wanting to maximize the value of the Samurai, and it is at least possible to take out Persia early with minimal investment. I don't recall the exact turn (probably around turn 50), but I took Persia's one and only city with two archers and the Samurai (having beelined bronze working). The city would target the Samurai which did not take meaningful damage, while the archers wittled away at the city strength, and the Samurai could do a couple of powerful slams to take the city.

However, I do feel it's better to keep Persia alive a little longer and try to keep him weak by not allowing him to sneak any settlers by, 1) to steal more workers (I didn't like stealing from CS here), and 2) such an early puppet only slows your game down in my experience. Even if you have mathematics, it will take forever to build a courthouse, and your happiness can't support it yet. So I would wait until composites to take out the city, when you have a few more workers to chop out the courthouse.
 
I wanted to have one more shot at this game, especially since I felt I almost stumbled onto the best strategy by accident in my first playthrough: delay the founding of the world council by not meeting all civs, and then win a one-cycle game. In my first game, I just fell short in science, but I also still had a couple of cities to conquer.

On emperor, you need a little bit of luck with the wonders, so after a few false starts I got the game that I wanted with most of the key wonders (ToA, Chichen, Hanging Gardens in one of the non-fresh water expands, even Great Library in the capital). However, I failed again by exactly one turn :).

One_city.png

I had gone after Alex early, but he had planted a city that was a bit hard to take for my crossbows (Argos), so I left that city for last as I sent my land army back to Dido to take out her inland expands. After razing Dido's final cities, my land army returned to finish the job, unfortunately he had snuck in another city, Sparta, which I would need to have taken this turn in order to trigger the World Leader vote.

In hindsight, I should have left Alex alone because he was just spamming too many cities, and there are only so many turns to raze them all. However, Alexander in the game is a bit of a red flag for me, so usually when he is in the game the plan is to take him out.

This game I went order instead of Freedom btw, in order to use a tier-1 happiness policy (+2 happiness for monuments), since happiness was a struggle all game long with cities being razed almost continuously.
 
Turn 299. First Un congress was in turn 260 more or less but I only had 38 votes out of 40 😢. In the beginning I thought there was only me and Darius in the peninsula so I took advantage of the samurai to take his cap. Unfortunately I didn't have enough happiness to afford his other cities so I decided to sim city from there on. Besides Persepolis was already kindabad
 

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T252 win.

Samurai is very powerful, especially in creating fishing boats. Also, it's very good at getting tributes early.

I wanted to try GL-NC before settlement, but I met Persia so early. I note that if I don't expand early, I may not be able to get my slots for cities. Finally, I was still slower than Persia in building the 2nd city, but luckily I can still get a very good spot on the west. The spot on south is crazy with 4 whales, and the samurai improved them all with a breeze.

I fought Persia early a little bit, but just noticed that I could just ignore him and build the infra. Peaceful 4-city is already quick enough with such good city spots, so, I later turned to peacefully science game, but I bulbed too late? and finally I need to wait for nearly 20 turns to get the UN vote.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?

Early minor war with Persia, nothing happened. Mainly peaceful, but final 20 turns of bombing just for fun, with 15k+ cash.

- Were Japan's unique abilities useful to you?

Very useful. The samurai improved sea tiles so quickly. Extra culture is also very nice.

- Which ideology did you pick?

Freedom. Just the golden 3. Finally I maxed out Patronage & Commerce & Rationalism.

- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?

tsg279-252.png
 

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