TSG 280 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I just played the first 100 turns, out of competition, and I'm off to a somewhat mediocre start. The first bit of crucial map knowledge that I made use of is that there are two religious city states north of our capital (I did not put them there, I just rolled a lucky map). This allowed me to get first pantheon before turn ~10, although I'm not sure I made the correct choice. A few years ago I played a few games in a small multi-player community (just vanilla BNW, no Lekmod), and the consensus was that an early God King in the first couple of turns (by meeting a religious city state, as you need only one on quick speed, or by being the Celts) usually trumps a pantheon that makes more use of the land (earth mother, sun god, etc.) because the early bonuses are so impactful. Here, I picked Sun God, and I just missed out on last religion (I had some friendships and ally statuses with Ife and Lhasa to supplement my faith generation).

The second part of my game that was mediocre was worker stealing. I stole one worker from the AI west of us on the coast (but that worker got lost in the jungle, was captured by a hand-axe, and was later re-captured by the AI as it took out the barb camp), one from an AI north-west (I was camped in a good position, but it just did not send another worker out), and two from Zanzibar, who were very stingy with their workers, and I eventually made peace because I had nothing to deal with the pikeman that was about to enter my lands. A shame, since I would have like to farm XP, but I had focused too much on infrastructure to do so.

Another setback in my game was that my settle of Jenne was delayed by about ten turns. I wanted to settle it one tile west of its current location, to put it on a hill and bring another banana and cow in range, but my scout had to flee the spot because it was in danger of dying from barbarians. So, I stepped away hoping the barbs would leave, but then western AI came calling to clear the barb camp (reclaiming that worker that I lost earlier, too). Fine, I thought I would then wait for his units to finish healing and then finally settle, However, I then spotted an AI settler heading for my spot so I just had to put my city down on the undesirable location - which I could have done ten turns earlier.

So, 100 turns in my economy is decent but not amazing, and I have not made any moves against the AI. I'm not sure what the plan is, either. All AI capitals can be accessed by the coast but I only have a single coastal city. The lands to the north are also wide open to a land army, so perhaps I should try to do both. I also have some regrets not trying chariots, although that can sometimes be easier said than done on deity. In any case, I feel this map has some replay value, in case I want to try again and get a better start.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game? Zulu, Ethopia, Egypt, Morocco, and Carthage. Was wondering who the other two AIs would be.
- What tech path did you follow and why? Looking for immediate benefits, so granaries, archers, forest chops, horses. Ended up going for Machinery before Education on accident (guilds to avoid classical filler and Machinery only 1 tech after that).
- What Social Policies did you choose? Full honor (right-side first) plus commerce opener thus far. Terrain looked tough for a liberty rush.
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick? God king as first pantheon. Think there's still one religion available, but I'm not going for it (bought a monastery from the "Ethiopian" religion).

Turn 100 Status

Spoiler :

Seems reasonable - I'm pleased with the start. Warrior went northeast - lots of gold (and a pantheon) from city states. Picked god king for the immediate benefits. Without a reliable source of faith, the other obvious-to-me pantheon was culture from plantations. Takes time to setup the plantations, some are bad tiles, and my the time I need the extra culture (medieval to help speed up commerce policies), it seemed highly probable that I wouldn't be able to keep the pantheon.

One worker steal plus I captured (and kept) a barbarian worker. Between the city states and extra barb camp gold, I was able to buy a settler. Two DoFs - bought a cargo ship immediately after researching sailing (also bought an aqueduct in the capital immediately after engineering). Caravan to one friend ("Assyria") and cargo ship to the other ("Shoshone"). Production awful in my two expansions, so they went monument - library - granary. Shoshone army gathered - wasn't 100% certain it was coming for me (might have been going to "Venice"), but instead, I was backstabbed (bye, bye cargo ship - at least I had 20 turns of it though). The AI can't handle the terrain - easy defense. As I gathered my army waiting for roads (I couldn't counterattack effectively), a Venetian army showed up - likely going for me, but it was only 6gpt to send it after Shoshone instead.

Now, I've finally advanced for the counterattack. If there's no reinforcements, I can take the Shoshone forward settle next turn. If I can keep it, I probably should - can upgrade to crossbows there plus keeping it prevents that area being resettled by the AI later. But, if I can't keep it, I'll just raze - probably not worth the wait to make sure I can hold it.

Turn 100 Screenshot

Spoiler :

 

[lerrocco]

I jumped in for a look. This is above my pay grade I think, and time is limited.

After a few turns it appeared this was going to be a naval conquest, and my idea hasnt changed since.

I thought my neighbours would be quite peaceful, though Ram II did tell me the other ram II was going to attack me.

Early pantheon was God King. I didnt get a religion. I am at T120 now and one city had 3 different main religions in one turn hehe. I see what the latest religion offers and built a cathedral and a mosque in Jenne.

3 city, policies everywhere. NC about to come online and I am going to prioritize Frigates, after I get crossbows for self defence. First Galleas is online as I write this 20 turns after the screenshot.

Plan is defend the homeland while the navy takes on the world. I dont expect to win. But will see how I get on.

Jenne has little production, but I hope to use specialists and gold income looks promising, I thought 2 harbours for the fleet would be better, and I can cargo ship for food and coin as needed. The inland city seemed a logical choice also.

Legalism after monuments gave me free mud pyramids in my cities.

Built Zeus for the CS alliance, and it will come in handy later. There seems to be a fair division of the wonders by our doppelganger friends so every city conquest has its own little unique bonus.... if I get that far.

My next policy opened Commerce.

I took a general from the Honor tree to take the Gems to the East.

I have somehow befriended a lot of military CS, nothing to do with me hehe, and have been gifted 3 units already.

I will turtle slowly to a fleet and set sail.

 

[raider980]

Everybody is Rameses! No chance of any wonders this game lol.

Ramses: "Ramses is a threat to the stability of the world. Would you join me in a war against Ramses?"
Me: "Eh, sorry, I don't know who you're talking about "

I had planned on getting to Michelangelo's Cavalry and then using them to go to war and take cites since they don't have a penalty. But when Ramses attacked plans had to change. I guess I shouldn't have attacked his CS and told him to bug off. Plus, capitals so far are coastal so it will be much easier with Frigates; might try it with Galleass' against Ramses.

Went full Tradition since its Deity. Haphazard tech path; and low science will lead to a late NC. Didn't get a religion but got first pantheon from the Religious CS; chose food from Citrus, Banana and something; didn't help much, I'm behind in Pop like usual; I had to slow growth becaus of unhappiness and now Ramses religion has taken over although its not bad, it has happiness from Temples so my Pyramids are going to be amazing.

On T100 I have taken Ramses nearest city but will need to wait for ships to take the capital. He's got Pikes and I only have Spears. Been a fun game so far; finding Mt. Kili was awesome and helped my troops take Bubastis. Only going for 3 self-founded cities and will capture the rest; probably should have built Jenne on the coast but got greedy for tiles. I might win this, will depend on if I can get to Frigates before their cities get too strong.

 

[sebtanic]

I went liberty this time. When I found Mt Kili, I built a settler immediately and didn't wait until the free one to settle it.

I din't take too many notes this time. Built a shrine for the Sun God pantheon, I think it helped my growth a lot with all those Bananas and Citrus around. My people are sure eating a healthy diet!

At turn 100 I'm planing to conquer with Friagtes, since all capitals I've found so far are coastal.

What's with all the Egypts around? I decided to build a few spearmen since we're bound to get attacked by war chariots. The Civilopedia says war chariots are weak to spearmen, however later in the game I discovered that's untrue.

 

[Megalou]

I got Philosophy on turn 75 and then picked legalism on the same turn. I had monuments in three of my four cities, but all I got was a monument in the fourth. I wonder which freaking counter-intuitive rule I broke this time. You have to have shrines?

 

[Megalou]

I got Philosophy on turn 75 and then picked legalism on the same turn. I had monuments in three of my four cities, but all I got was a monument in the fourth. I wonder which freaking counter-intuitive rule I broke this time. You have to have shrines?

One Mud pyramid has popped up since I added shrines. In the capital of Gah, though, where I haven't just finished shrine but also lighthouse, not so much:

Spoiler :

Not that it makes a big difference, but the irritation increases precisely because free mud pyramids wasn't a brilliant scheme for this particular game in the first place...
Edit: The pyramid was erected seven turns after shrine.

 

[lerrocco]

You also need shrines right, because they are a prereq for temples. And you need to avoid researching drama, because then amphitheaters will pop out.

Yes, in fact I didnt have a shrine in one city and when I did build it I didnt receive the mud pyramid for free, I now have an ampitheatre as the free culture building in that city.

Moderator Action: Moved to the Opening Actions thread. Our rule is that once you open the save file, please do not post in the Announcement thread as you may introduce spoilers by accident. Thanks, leif

 

[catwhoorg]

As I said, in opening actions I have never beaten Diety and that trend may continue. Settled on the hill location to the SE

Built scout (who upgraded to archer with ruins), monument, scout, shrine, archer warrior granery

Seriously behind the AIs right now, even my 2nd city site (west of capital) was sniped by Purple Rameses. Which is why he and I are at war right now.

Bad luck in the initial scouting meant I was 2nd to a lot of the close city states, not that this affects much but gold, but it certainly doesn't help.


- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?

I wanted to try to get 4 core cities up and running before fighting, that did not happen

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Archers early, Bronze working and then focus on military units. I can't out produce all theRameses I have to out fight them

- What Social Policies did you choose?

Tradition and Honor

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

No religion yet, hopefully soon.

 

[Megalou]

Turn 100, such small cities - rainforest settlements, really.

 

[raider980]

Turn 100, such small cities - rainforest settlements, really.

Those are typical cities for me at T 100, actually usually I only have 3 cities around those sizes. Guess that's why I rarely win Deity and even struggle on Immortal sometimes

 

[Megalou]

Those are typical cities for me at T 100, actually usually I only have 3 cities around those sizes. Guess that's why I rarely win Deity and even struggle on Immortal sometimes

To spend the early shields on military rather than infrastructure seems to be the safest option, especially on deity and especially on pangea and especially when production is low. A sunken cargo ship is a huge setback.

 

[bc1]

Everybody is Rameses! No chance of any wonders this game lol.

It's so much better to have the AI build wonders for you, especially on domination.
The issue with Rameses is not their wonder building, that's actually great, and Ramseses are ideal victims. Rather the issue here are the damned early war chariots, plus the anemic jungle start.

This and the fact that the map is so large, with capitals waterside sitting ducks to frigates, I decided to develop then war rather than my usual war ASAP.

So let's go with a standard 4-city tradition setup. I settled in place, then the obvious expo NW of Kilimanjaro, next the one near the salts to the NW, then last for lack of a better place, the sh*tty jungle expo to the west. Picked the closest Ramses as my official slave supplier: he obliged by providing 7 quality workers now busily toiling away in the empire. He wanted to give more, but 7 is already overkill, so I peaced out. Full vampire economy bleeding the victim Ramseses for most of their cash in exchange for my plentiful horses and some iron (which will become critical supplies for my later frigates). Got a few barbarian huts, but not enough to get but a single city state ally for a short while. The Ramseses are notoriously passive, so did not bother to build much units at this time.

Got education on T97, rushed bought all universities. Metrics look nominal at this stage. Looking forward to the more exciting war phase...

Spoiler :

 

[Megalou]

It's so much better to have the AI build wonders for you, especially on domination.
The issue with Rameses is not their wonder building, that's actually great, and Ramseses are ideal victims. Rather the issue here are the damned early war chariots, plus the anemic jungle start.

This and the fact that the map is so large, with capitals waterside sitting ducks to frigates, I decided to develop then war rather than my usual war ASAP.

So let's go with a standard 4-city tradition setup. I settled in place, then the obvious expo NW of Kilimanjaro, next the one near the salts to the NW, then last for lack of a better place, the sh*tty jungle expo to the west. Picked the closest Ramses as my official slave supplier: he obliged by providing 7 quality workers now busily toiling away in the empire. He wanted to give more, but 7 is already overkill, so I peaced out. Full vampire economy bleeding the victim Ramseses for most of their cash in exchange for my plentiful horses and some iron (which will become critical supplies for my later frigates). Got a few barbarian huts, but not enough to get but a single city state ally for a short while. The Ramseses are notoriously passive, so did not bother to build much units at this time.

Got education on T97, rushed bought all universities. Metrics look nominal at this stage. Looking forward to the more exciting war phase...

Spoiler :

View attachment 754327

I agree about the placement of the Kili town. However, that hill was blocked by a bad-*** barbarian spearman camp for me.
Gutsy placement of Jenne... It looks a bit risky but getting your people out of the jungle was wise. And that road will make defence easier.

 

[bc1]

I agree about the placement of the Kili town. However, that hill was blocked by a bad-*** barbarian spearman camp for me

I seem to recall there was a barb camp there also, and that scout turned archer took care of it, and captured a captured Zanzibar city state worker to boot

Gutsy placement of Jenne... It looks a bit risky but getting your people out of the jungle was wise.

Jenne I do remember was barb infested: had to tiptoe around the barb cluster with my warrior escort, plop the city next to the camp and *arg* forgo the 75$, then blast the barbs away mostly using city fire

And that road will make defence easier.

we don't have a defense dept in this game, only a war dept

 

[Megalou]

we don't have a defense dept in this game, only a war dept

Well I figured since you mentioned a building era there would be a period of vulnerability unless you’ve discovered a way to build units and buildings at the same time.

 

[bc1]

Well I figured since you mentioned a building era there would be a period of vulnerability unless you’ve discovered a way to build units and buildings at the same time.

I'm actually quite safe: AI is really bad at warfare, friends with both western Ramses, Ramseses are extremely loyal, and AI overvalues cash as military power, but I can use some of it to turn AI against each other.
But yes I got carried away with development overfocus and should have started transitionning to unit building sooner.