TSG 294 After Actions

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please attach your final savefile, state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Submit game | Announcement thread | Opening actions

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were Spanish unique abilities useful to you?
- Which ideology did you pick?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?

 

[Megalou]

Scientific victory t236,
a surprisingly late date considering all the yummy wonders (natural as well as cultural).
I did my best setting up food cargo (Petra and Colossus contributing).
I captured Amsterdam and Paris, meaning I ended up with all useful wonders except Artemis and Teracotta.

We also got a surprising easter egg and I set up a sweet 10 culture city with a conquistador.

But there were two problems.
First there was the war from spoiler 1 where the Dutch attacked with several catapults and temporarily captured both Toledo and Cordoba in the south, forcing me to spend over 1000 gold on archers and delaying progress considerably. Black Vegetable's 2 southern cities were both size 12 on turn 100, while mine were size 6 and 7.
Also, I inadvertently captured an 8th city, the weak French city of Lyon, which I thought I could burn down but couldn't because it was France last city and capital. To sell it never occured to me.

Looking forward to seeing more of what I could have done better.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Science victory turn 187, out of competition. My fastest science victory ever! Whether this 'counts' on this map and with my map knowledge is another matter.

If you reveal the Opening Actions spoiler, you will see that on turn 100 I was one turn away from Astronomy, and I already had a settler in the water. I would have liked to use a conquistador, but I was not going to delay settling by researching chivalry first. Having settled El Dorado, I now had six cities of my own, and from that point on it was quite a straightforward game. My scouting of the other continent was a bit slow, so it took me a while to find Portugal, so even though I proposed World's Fair, I never put any hammers into it because it came too late (and I just had enough culture in time).

I went Industrialization first, with the idea of building factories and Big Ben, and then to purchase public schools with a discount, but perhaps that was an inaccuracy - I probably had enough gold to buy a decent number of public schools at full price, as long as I did not spend it on frivolous things like city states. As it was Big Ben completed a few turns after researching Scientific Theory, so I actually ended up building some public schools instead, out of some misguided idea of efficiency.

After the initial warring, I played peacefully except to stay at war with William. He kept sending prophets my way, so I did not want to be caught unaware. I ended up planting all three he sent me, and generalled some tiles from Amsterdam for good measure. With the other AI I maintained good relations and even some declarations of friendship, which was useful for getting King's days quests, although after a while many cities wanted gems, of which I only saw one copy on the other island that nobody settled.

Initially, my plan had been to settle another inland city, where now Tlatelolco is (actually, Tlatelolco had first been settled one tile left, off river - doh! - but Montezuma gifted me the city in a peace deal so I could raze it as it was stealing my Petra tiles). From the modern era onwards, I missed the 7th city in the sense that my science was slowing down a little (although of course I would have needed to find the happiness to make an extra city grow), and also at the end of the game I discovered that I had not built Machu Picchu anywhere! In fact, no-one had built it. Despite all my hours in the game, I was never quite sure how the natural wonders work when it comes to observatories and mountain wonders.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Also, I inadvertently captured an 8th city, the weak French city of Lyon, which I thought I could burn down but couldn't because it was France last city and capital. To sell it never occured to me

Actually, if you could not raze it, then it must have been the French holy city, otherwise you can raze any city other than original capitals (and Indonesian cities with those unique Indonesian luxuries). Also, if you do not raze a city immediately, it does not matter if you sell it later: your science and social policy cost have already gone up (unless you sell this city, and then later settle or conquer another city, then the cost would still be based on 8 cities).

 

[Megalou]

Actually, if you could not raze it, then it must have been the French holy city, otherwise you can raze any city other than original capitals (and Indonesian cities with those unique Indonesian luxuries). Also, if you do not raze a city immediately, it does not matter if you sell it later: your science and social policy cost have already gone up (unless you sell this city, and then later settle or conquer another city, then the cost would still be based on 8 cities).

It was indeed the holy city of Hinduism, sanctified just one turn before being captured. And the Eldorado sity was founded one turn before capture too, so selling would not have helped, had it been possible.

 

[ForkOfSpite]

Turn 228 Science Victory!
Not setting any records with that, but I'm happy with the result.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Took Amsterdam and a Portuguese prophet (and a Lhasan worker)
- Were Spanish unique abilities useful to you? Yes
- Which ideology did you pick? Freedom
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them? Five + Amsterdam - SIP, Gibraltar, Potosi, (NC on T64), GBR on T77, Amsterdam on T138, El Dorado on T154

The initial caravel and scout I sent east were too far north to find the large island with El Dorado. Found both natural wonders on the other AI continent before El Dorado one turn later (T144) and Krakota (T160) - still first to find those two, of course.

Entered the Renaissance via Acoustics on Turn 119 - timed with Oracle to open Rationalism immediately. Secularism on Turn 126. My first writer spawned on Turn 121, but I waited. Ended up with extra writers, so I should have bulbed that first writer immediately. Humanism T141, Free Thought T154, Sovereignty T161, bulbed two writers on T194 for Scientific Revolution (Plastics).

After Acoustics, I picked up Compass but then went for Machinery (T126) before Astronomy. Paid William to DOW Monty (he looked weak from an earlier war against Napoleon) when I picked up Machinery. I upgrade and DOW next turn with two pikes and four crossbows. Unexpectedly lost a pike and couldn't make him target the other pike, so my crossbows started taking damage. Built another pike and things were looking good except Monty got a very injured sword next to a very injured Amsterdam. No vision to most of the second ring behind Amsterdam. I couldn't take it that turn, but got lucky. Maybe William went first and killed the sword? Regardless, I captured Amsterdam with five world wonders.

Speaking of World Wonders ...

Madrid
T50 Great Library
T94 Colossus
T119 Oracle
T140 Sistine
T149 Leaning Tower
T172 Taj
T184 Big Ben
T195 Statue of Liberty (faith engineer)
(later) Hubble (faith Engineer)

Barcelona
T128 Chichen Itza

Seville
T102 Petra
T159 Globe Theatre
T182 Porcelain Tower (meant to leave it with one turn left)

Amsterdam (all captured on Turn 138)
Borobudur
Hagia
Pyramids (this was only a few turns before I DOW)
Stonehenge
Artemis

Final Empire Screenshots (Turn 228):

Spoiler :

Spoiler North :

Spoiler South :

Spoiler East :

 

[ForkOfSpite]

My scouting of the other continent was a bit slow, so it took me a while to find Portugal, so even though I proposed World's Fair, I never put any hammers into it because it came too late (and I just had enough culture in time).

Forgot to mention the World Congress in my summary. I proposed Science Funding mostly because I thought the WF would be too late. Napoleon proposed Arts Funding. I sent my industrial spy to three civs to buy votes (1 for science yea, 2 for arts nay). I could have, any maybe should have, ignored AIs stealing tech from me and used both to buy votes, but having tech stolen every turn annoys me too much. To get the best result, I decided to go modern via Radio, and I just barely made it (1 turn remaining, but didn't need to use oxford, rationalism, or any scientist bulbs). Was saving gold for labs so I didn't want to buy any more city states. I had 10 votes, Isabella had 4 votes (two city states), and the other six AIs had two votes each. Of those 16, I had bought 3, so only 13 potential votes were against me.

Rather than mostly guarantee at least one of the votes (couldn't fully guarantee either*), I risked it to try to get both - split my votes 5/5. Both proposals failed, but it certainly could have been worse (at least the arts vote failed). The science vote was a tie, and the arts vote was +2 nay. Putting one or two more votes towards science would have given the ideal outcome. If all 13 votes went against me, both proposals could have tied (rather than tie/+2), so I guess one of those 13 uncontrolled votes went in my favor.

My second proposal was WF (voted against it though). Third proposal was international space station which seems odd since I don't remember any World Leader votes. I guess Satellites timing coincided with the votes on the second set of proposals.

Upon further contemplation ...
I could have guaranteed at least one vote in my favor by putting all 10 of my votes against Arts Funding. Including the two I bought, that's 12 nays. To pass, all 13 uncontrolled votes would have to have voted yea, but that leave the one vote I bought to pass Science Funding. Works in reverse too - if I put all 10 votes to pass Science Funding, plus the one bought vote, then 11 uncontrolled would have had to vote nay. That leaves 2 potential yea for Arts which wouldn't surpass the 2 I bought.

 

[sebtanic]

SV turn 226.

I didn't follow through with my plan of settling all the NWs. It wasn't even possible to settle Krakatoa, and conquering cities to get the 2 NWs on the other continent would have been a huge waste of ressources. Not to mention the diplomatic penalties.

I could have easily grabbed El Dorado with my Conquistador, but it would have increased my tech cost more than it was worth. Of course I could have settled it one turn before launching (my single Conquistador was parked on location), but at that time I didn't care much anymore.

(Oh and I actually built two Conquistadors, but the other one got accidentally upgraded to a Cavalry by a barb ruin and lost his settling ability. That Cavalry later took Amsterdam though )

The two cities in the south of our home continent did really well though (Sri Pada & GBR cities). I did end up in a war with Netherlands, but not because they attacked me: They kept trying to convert my cities even though I told them not to. So I DOWed them and destroyed their Prophet when they did it again. I didn't want to lose the faith from One With Nature. So I eventually took Amsterdam to have a security buffer. There was minimal resistance against my XBs, Pikes, and single Cavalry unit. The Inca also eventually DOWed the Dutch, and razed an expo.

I then proceeded to liberate Paris, which was occupied by the Dutch, to make up for my warmongering penalty. Maybe I should have kept it though since it had ToA.

Apart from that, there's not much exciting stuff to report. I used Oxford for Scientific Theory and bought Public Schools, then later bulbed 2 GS for Plastics and bought Research Labs everywhere.

The end game was a bit fiddly. I did a lot of GS counting and micro managing specialists. I'm kind of proud to not have gotten a single accidental GM or GE this game.

In the end I had like 11 or 12 GSs to bulb after Plastics. 3 of them came from faith, 2 from Hubble.

I also bought a GE with faith, to hurry Sydney Opera House. I needed the free Policy to finish the Rationalism tree in time to bulb Particle Physics, and also to have access to my 3 faith bought GSs. These 3 were enough to tech all the way to Nanotechnology, which was the last tech I needed. (Usually I go Nanotech first, but this time since I needed a policy and had no Great Writer in sight, I teched the upper part of the tree first so I could get Sydney.)

In the end, I bulbed Nanotech t225, which was exactly the moment when I had enough gold to buy the last Spaceship part. Funny how this always seems to work out perfectly in science games. Launched the space ship turn 226 and won.

 

[Rhodro]

Just won SV on turn 235.
I was practically 1 GS short for a 8 turn faster victory.
6 self settled cities and 1 puppet (amsterdam).
For my first world congress proposal i did culture from natural wonders, fun roleplaying, but probably should have been science funding.
The difference with most others is also that i had to war netherlands to liberate some lands and settle great barrier reef. Most people probably scouted it a bit earlier and simply sent settlers earlier.
Maaaybe if i annexed amsterdam and got all the science buildings up i could have squeezed out 1 more GS. I thought 6 cities + 1 puppet was enough at the time.

@The_Black_Vegetable That's an insane fast victory, even if you knew the NW positions in advance. Congrats on that achievement!
Do you continue with food trade routes after labs are up, or switch to hammer trade routes?

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Do you continue with food trade routes after labs are up, or switch to hammer trade routes?

I continue with food trade routes, but I don't think my late-game optimization is the best. What I typically don't do or don't do enough:

• convert farms to trading post
• stop growing/starve cities to maximize production
• switch from food to hammer trade routes

I general, I enjoy growing my cities as big as possible, though clearly good finish times are possible playing this way.

 

[Bol]

I'll write a full report later (hopefully I'll find the time), but this game made me understand I just don't understand Science victory.
I played my standard 4 city Tradition game, of course with great timings given the insane map.

First questionable thing I did, I used Oxford on Radio (for Freedom) which I'll try to defend
a) I got 2 great bonuses 7 turns early: +ppl gen is good, and +food is insane imho (Freedom)
b) I already had Free Thought, and I perfectly timed ideology with tier 2 tenet (which kinda did nothing tbh)
c) Oxford still gives Science (and a tiny bit of culture) and the opportunity cost in building it was basically 0
First questions:
1) should I keep Oxford for the very last tech instead?
2) should have I taken Order instead? Especially since I timed tier 2 (factory tenet) to perfection
3) more generally, when should I go Freedom and when Order? I've never seen a good answer.

Then things went smoothly and I bulbed a Scientist for T173 Plastics (4 Labs bought on the same turn) since I was at full build:
116 pop, 802 science with full slots (even 4x Merchant in all cities) and Mercantilism
...and I thought "wow, I might go sub-T200 here"...but no

I don't have the exact details, but I started bulbing on ~T185 on ~1200 science
in the endgame I bulbed 13 scientists (without overflows, of course): 2-8 natural, 3 from faith, 3 from PT and Hubble
each one for only ~8600 (WTH?!) and still I got only to Telecom, needing 2 full techs still
I'm at T205 now (with nothing to do other than end-turn), and I should get Particles T217, so win T218...which is still good, but 45 turns from Plastics which feels an eternity to me.
Other questions:
4) how is the bulb value computed exactly? Because math ain't mathing. I have ~1000 base, ~125 from Research, ~30 from CS allies, and ~100 (I know this is 10% of base) from Rationalism; which component count towards the bulb value? I'm starting to assume only 8x base.
5) What I am doing wrong? I always assumed 25 turns from Labs to win so doable, and I would have gotten natural Labs T180...and yet on T205 I need 1.5 techs still.


@The_Black_Vegetable I appeal to your wisdom!

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

@Bol 4-city tradition is a comfortable to way win, but the late-game science output is quite low. If you can get more cities without slowing down the rest of your game too much, then more cities is definitely better (up to a point of course, because more cities also increase the science cost). I think for Tradition 5 or 6 cities is best, maybe even 7 (in my game I had 6 decent cities, but I found my science was only just high enough). Also with more cities it becomes easier to generate more scientists. Getting so many cities up early is hard, obviously because you need to find the happiness to keep growing, but also because you need way more workers, your trade routes are spread more thinly, and national wonders become much more challenging (and on higher difficulties you are more likely to annoy the AI).

This map is very suited to tradition with more than four cities. Since you have two gold wonders as Spain, you are swimming in gold, so it's no problem to buy a library or two, and the capital does not need to 'waste time' building so many settlers. The key to my fast timing was that I sent two settlers down south very early, and kept a unit there to steal workers from William and keep him subdued (if you leave him be then he will get annoyed, mass an army, and you have to spend precious resources fighting him off). The El Dorado city I settled post NC, obviously, though it did come with a cost: it had two trade routes on it all game long, and it did not generate a scientist.

So in short:

1. The smaller your empire (or the lower your base science), the more valuable it becomes to save Oxford.
2. I think Freedom is better here, see 3.
3. Order is a little harder to manage the victory timing, because you need to build and/or engineer parts (and time your scientist generation with the Space Flight Engineers policy), rather than simply buying them. This is typically easier if you have more cities (you also still need to build Porcelain and sometimes Oxford, plus Hubble and Apollo). I think factory science comes into its own with more, slighly smaller cities, so typically aligned with Liberty.
4. As far as I know the base science counts towards the bulb, but also the research produced (this should be easy to experiment, of course). City state science and 10% Rationalism opener indeed do not (also not research agreements I think).
5. 25-30 Turns from labs to victory is doable only if you already have a very strong empire. Four-city tradition bulbs are typically too small, unless you have reall big cities (like Aztec, or maybe Korea with many great tile improvements).

Also, if you don't mind reading about Civ 5, I found this site interesting and helpful: http://www.dos486.com/civ5/index/

 

[Mesix]

Boy, oh boy, a Turn 360 finish is certainly the turtle in this race!

My biggest mistake was going to war with my neighbors too early which I already described in my Opening Actions post. This set back my progress by 100 turns or more as I was building units in most of my cities and waging a 2 front war.

Eventually, I made peace with Napoleon so that I could take down Montezuma. Napoleon gave me Leon in the peace deal which I burned to the ground (leaving only Paris). Shortly after this, the rest of the continent DOW me.

On turn 125, I lost Petra by a couple of turns.

Spoiler :

On Turn 151, Montezuma is no more and I can continue my conquest of the continent against the French and the Dutch.

Spoiler :

Eventually, the Inca sue for peace (after I took over Paris) with a deal too good to pass up. I also needed to commit my troops to march on Amsterdam (and burn the rest of the Dutch cities).

Spoiler :

The Dutch were building a lot of Wonders for me in Amsterdam. It was a pleasure to liberate them. A couple of these (Hermitage and the Eiffel Tower) were built by me later in the game.

Spoiler :

I did eventually start a religion on about Turn 105 and enhanced the religion on Turn 120. It was a bit later (after conquering most of the continent) that I was able to spread Taoism to all of my cities.

Spoiler :

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
I mean, eventually I played peacefully. Portugal discovered me before I could marshal my troops to role the Inca, so I let them live. No need to have everyone on the other continent denounce me as a warmonger. The trick to conquering your opening continent is to finish conquest before discovering the rest of the world.

- Were Spanish unique abilities useful to you?
Yes, the for Natural Wonders helped me expand to 3 cities very early in the game. Of course, I could have made better use of this by waiting for a tech advantage to roll the neighbors on my continent.

- Which ideology did you pick?
I went with Order. Be able to use GE to rush space components worked very well in the late game.

- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
I had six cities. My original 3 cities plus 3 capitals founded by AI players.

Here is a map of most of my empire at the end of the game:

Spoiler :

Here is my tech tree on the final turn. I finished 1 turn after bulbing Particle Physics.

Spoiler :

These are the social policies on the final turn. After full Liberty early, I dipped into Tradition before opening up Rationalism. After finishing all three, and the necessary Ideology tenants, I opened up Patronage towards the end of the game.

Spoiler :

No awards for finishing last place. This is my official run for this GOTM. I think I might play again to learn from my mistakes and see how much my time improves by making better decisions early.

 

[Megalou]

(without overflows, of course)

Hi Bol,
Do you mean that once the upcoming tech is brought down to 1 turn, you never bulb another GS?

 

[Rhodro]

I did a 2nd try since black vegetable had that 187 t amazing fast victory and i wanted to try and get close.
2nd try ended up in a 188 win, close but not a match
5 Self found cities, at the obvious NW locations, and then annexed Amsterdam (1 food trade route to it is enough to make it grow, have enough scientist slots running to make it pop a GS).

I had 1 GS and oxford left actually at the end. I used 1 GS for schools and 1 for labs, I saved oxford for either particle physics or nanotech, but if you can get 3 faith bought GS and 3 from hubble + porcelain, obviously oxford can be used to slingshot radio or help with schools or labs.
6 cities seems mandatory, they can all pop out at least 1 GS.

 

[Mesix]

I decided to experiment a bit with this game. Playing again from the start, I decide to prioritize early growth and science over military expansion. I can wipe my neighbors a bit later with superior units.

My first city is settled in place with two settlers bought early from NW which settle cities near Gibraltar and Sri Pada. Additional NW allows me to buy 2 more settles for cities near Cerro de Potosi and Great Barrier Reef. All 5 cities are built by turn 31. A free settler a few turns later builds a 6th city near the Copper about half way between Cerro de Potosi and Gibralter (just north of the Aztec capital).

Spoiler :

Religion is very helpful in this game. I pick One with Nature for my Pantheon generating a lot of from NW. By turn 39, my religion has been enhanced.

Spoiler :

For social policies, I open Tradition and then go full Liberty. On Turn 68 the Liberty finisher generates a free GE which is used to rush Petra.

I lost the race to built the Great Library. William completed the Great Library on Turn 34 .

Eventually both Napoleon and Montezuma decide to DOW together. After making short work of their armies, I conquer both capitals to make puppet cities. Paris was conquered on turn 100.

My northern empire:

Spoiler :

The south:

Spoiler :

Compared to my first play through, I am doing much better in this game.

First time through I only had 3 cities and was struggling to fight Napoleon and Montezuma with warriors and archers. This time I have built 6 cities and have also eliminated both the French and Aztec empires (8 cities including puppets).

First time through, I was 4 turns from researching Currency on turn 100. This time I am almost done with Education and have about 6 additional techs. This is despite having built the Great Library in the first play through and missing it in the second play through. is 91 per turn at turn 100 compared to 31 in my first play through!

At turn 100, my army is strong enough to continue conquest of the initial continent. Next up is the Dutch followed by the Inca. I should be able to upgrade my ranged units to Crossbows soon and, along with Swordsmen, will make short work of their inferior defenses.

While my army is out rolling the remaining AI players on the continent, I can continue building up my cities. I also need to connect the northern part of the empire with the southern cities and my newly conquered puppets.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I lost the race to built the Great Library. William completed the Great Library on Turn 34 .

That's crazy, I've never seen GL go that early on King.

 

[Mesix]

A bit more progress to report on my replay.

Clearing the initial continent is taking a bit longer than expected. The Netherlands went down easy enough. Amsterdam had a few wonders, and William founded two additional cities which had to be burned to the ground. Like the other AI capitals, I make a puppet out of Amsterdam.

Technology pace is quicker on my second play through, although probably still a bit behind others in this GOTM. I am producing 280 per turn, and I am three techs away from Scientific Theory at turn 150.

Science ramps up quickly after turn 150 (especially with Public Schools). By turn 178 I am producing 569 and by turn 189 it is up to 725.

The tech tree at turn 150.

Spoiler :

Here is what the northern part of the map looks like at turn 150.

Spoiler :

Here is the southern part of my empire.

Spoiler :

My army took a bit of attrition burning two Inca cities on the way to Cusco which has the Great Wall. I will probably need to accept peace for 10 turns while I get more troops into position.

Spoiler :

Cusco finally falls on turn 178.

Spoiler :

The city includes a few wonders and is made into a puppet, of course.

Spoiler :

On turn 189 I finally discover El Dorado. It almost doesn't seem useful to found another city this late in the game. Perhaps I should have made Astronomy more of priority to get here earlier? What do you think, should I use my Conquistador to found a city on this island? I have saved my game here and look forward to feedback on the pros and cons.

Spoiler :

 

[sebtanic]

A bit more progress to report on my replay.

Clearing the initial continent is taking a bit longer than expected. The Netherlands went down easy enough. Amsterdam had a few wonders, and William founded two additional cities which had to be burned to the ground. Like the other AI capitals, I make a puppet out of Amsterdam.

Technology pace is quicker on my second play through, although probably still a bit behind others in this GOTM. I am producing 280 per turn, and I am three techs away from Scientific Theory at turn 150.

Science ramps up quickly after turn 150 (especially with Public Schools). By turn 178 I am producing 569 and by turn 189 it is up to 725.

The tech tree at turn 150.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777342

Here is what the northern part of the map looks like at turn 150.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777345

Here is the southern part of my empire.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777344

My army took a bit of attrition burning two Inca cities on the way to Cusco which has the Great Wall. I will probably need to accept peace for 10 turns while I get more troops into position.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777346

Cusco finally falls on turn 178.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777347

The city includes a few wonders and is made into a puppet, of course.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777348

On turn 189 I finally discover El Dorado. It almost doesn't seem useful to found another city this late in the game. Perhaps I should have made Astronomy more of priority to get here earlier? What do you think, should I use my Conquistador to found a city on this island? I have saved my game here and look forward to feedback on the pros and cons.

Spoiler :

View attachment 777349

I had a Conquistador parked there too, but didn't settle it because each new city makes techs and policies more expensive.

However, if you can grow it fast enough to make up for that, it might be worthwile. Hard to say without trying it out!

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

The city includes a few wonders and is made into a puppet, of course.

Note, if you want to keep a city (and for capitals you have to), you should indeed first puppet. However, I find once it comes out of resistance, it is better to annex the city. The considerations are: puppeted cities already increase the tech cost, but they don't increase the culture cost. So if culture is a worry, you might keep a city puppeted. However, a city's output (including science) is reduced by 25% while it's a puppet. Moreover, the city will be doing silly things. It will be on gold focus for its tiles (making it work flat desert incense tiles, for instance), and the governor will often let it build useless buildings (e.g. caravanseray). A final consideration is constructing national wonders: if you annex a city, it needs the building required for the national wonder; as a puppet, it does not. Early game, this means often delaying annexing until after NC is built (unless the city has a library), late game Oxford university requires all cities to have a university (but that should be a very high priority anyway in a science game). The cost of the national wonders goes up whether or not you annex the city.