TSG175 AAR

[Knowtalent]

Welcome to the TSG175 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!
STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.
Please attach your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.) In your post.
- How useful was your UA?
- Did you use spying to your advantage?
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- What techs did you prioritize ?
- What did you think of the map and settings?

 

[zxcvbob]

Deity CV is pretty much impossible for me except w/ Polynesia. I will SIP, run Piety, and beeline for Petra. Since CV is hopeless, I might as well have some fun!

It's turn 253 in my game. I settled in place and decided to go Piety when I met that religious CS on turn 2 or 3. Got the second or third pantheon, and Desert Folklore was still available! Leveraged that into a pretty good religion, except by the time I got to Reformation all the good beliefs were already taken (so I took Evangelism) I settled 3 cities. Stole 2 workers from Egypt early, but have played peacefully after that. Social policies are Piety, Tradition, Autocracy. I'm doing okay in everything but culture. I'm just starting my big military buildup for the Great War that will be starting soon (it will start whether I start it or not), and I need to take out Egypt and Brazil. I have no iron nor coal, but I have horses, oil and aluminum. (I bought coal for a factory in Constantinople, and I will just skip frigates and go straight to battleships; my dromon and galleass don't have many promotions anyway)

I do not expect to win this, but this is the best I've done so far in a deity game. I'll post a follow-up when it's over.

 

[raider980]

I resigned when I failed to get the last religion. No point in playing Byzantium without a religion. I almost rage quit when someone beat me to Desert Folklore by one turn but I continued hahaha. Losing the last religion was too much though.

I'm going back and making it into a Deity lite game though. Because I've never played Theodora before and it's an interesting map.

 

[beetle]

I resigned when I failed to get the last religion. No point in playing Byzantium without a religion. I almost rage quit when someone beat me to Desert Folklore by one turn but I continued hahaha. Losing the last religion was too much though.

That is exactly what happened to me. Last religion went T60, that is very fast. I was running Piety like I said I would, son not only a civ without a UA, but also a crippled opening tree. No fun at all!

I reloaded to try Tradition. I did enjoy the game well enough, but did not come close to winning, loosing to the far-away-run-away by CV on T297.

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm on turn 300 and not going to last much longer. Everybody except Austria and Celts have turned on me, and I'm at war with Brazil, Egypt, and I think Songhai. The war with Brazil was going okay until the other 2 jumped in a turn or two ago. Egypt has more rocket artillery than I've ever seen before; there's no way my bombers can kill them all fast enough. Plus it seems at deity level, all the AI units get the cover promotion for free. I'll play for another turn or two and then quit.

 

[raider980]

That is exactly what happened to me. Last religion went T60, that is very fast. I was running Piety like I said I would, son not only a civ without a UA, but also a crippled opening tree. No fun at all!

I reloaded to try Tradition. I did enjoy the game well enough, but did not come close to winning, loosing to the far-away-run-away by CV on T297.

Yea, religions went fast in my game too (although I never even try for a religion on Deity so it may be normal). I went Liberty so after I lost out on DF I was just hoping to be able to get a religion with the Liberty finisher; but was no where near close. It'll be interesting to see if anyone gets a religion without DF.

I guess you could go Liberty and bang out settlers early and try to build shrines and get Stone Circles, there was two stone to the west by my 2nd city. Not sure though.

 

[beetle]

I love how some maps are a real puzzle. With this one: Can I found? Can I win at all?

I have played this map three times now. Opening build is Monument, Shrine, Scout. The nearby religious CS gives 8 faith, but you need two more for the first pantheon. You need crazy good luck to catch Desert Folklore on this map! Abusing map knowledge, I went OWN on my 3rd game, and that gave me a religion. Took Jesuit Education for the Reformation Belief and was able to win by SV on turn 349 (game ends on T350). I was less aggressive, so I guess that kept the faraway runaway from killing civs on my starting continent, so she was not close to CV this time.

 

[Ozmandius]

It is an interesting setup. First time I've played on Sandstorm.

Similar to other people I've had no luck with religions. DF went early, and never got close to founding a religion. So as soon as DF went I decided to go warmonger. My plan is to convert the sole surviving enemy on the map, probably Celts since they seem to suck at culture. Oh yes, did eventually get DF from the owner, plus some very nice follower abilities.

Took the first Egyptian city around turn 50 with bows, the cap about 25 turns later with Comp Bows. The next hundred turns was several wars with Brazil and just captured last city on T200.

Of course everyone is friends with me because I used the slimy and questionable trick of bribing Brazil to declare war on everyone in the game, wait a turn or two then denounce Brazil and then declare war on him. You get all your money back that you bribed him with and everyone loves you for attacking such a villain like Brazil.

Not quite sure how I will hand the culture leader AH as she is rather far away for my cannons and knights and gatlings.

Fun game though.

[One week later]

Been busy and only played a bit here and there.
~ T215 attacked Ojibwe who went down pretty quick as I had artillery. Captured the last city around turn 240. Resurrected Egypt.

Then fought a short war with Gao and AH and took the cities they had on MY continent (generously shared with my loyal flunky, the Celts) and Quebec City (AH had married it). A small army went to Gao homeland but literally every space had a unit on it. That army got wiped (arty and tanks) but Gao was also fighting Celts and Polynesia so he peaced out and gave me Columbo. This ended around T270.

Started another war with AH around 280 and now I had nukes. Glazed over most of Western AH, captured one city in this area and peaced out to build an army.

Started another war with AH about T300. By now I had rocket artillery and XCOM (and more nukes). Did a preliminary nuke bombardment and over about 15 turns captured 4 cities including Vienna (must have nuked it at least 4 times over the 2 wars but still had all the wonders!).

Accidentally won the game in T315 (World Leader) as I didn't notice I had enough votes. Oh well .. kept going to see whether I could have got a culture victory. AH peaces out and gives me 6 cities (mostly tiny ones scattered on islands around the world which would be annoying to attack. Now around T320.

One more war should wipe out AH and musicians should pretty easily push culture over the top for Gao (who is still fighting Celts and Polynesia).

[Anothere week later]

Since I can't attack AH I started a war with Gao. Took about 1 city a turn with stealth bombers.

Bring everything back into position for AH and on T335 turns later the last AH city fell and game was over (with dominant culture over Poly, Celts, Egypt).

Started a second game to try and be more religious. With Piety as my first two picks I was able to get DF and then a religion (got cathedrals and mosques). Then pretty much the same plan. Egypt out by T90 (well they had one city off in one corner). Got Brazil out by T170 this time. AH still a cultural runaway though so looks like I'd still have to over there and kill her off again. Same game so don't think I'll bother.

 

[zxcvbob]

I gave up on turn 300, in about 3 or 4 wars that I can't possibly win; I might can drag them out for a while but that's no fun.

I have played just the beginning several times, and I can fairly-consistently get a religion if my build order is monument, shrine, granary, settler, and I open piety for my first policy -- then switch to something else like Tradition. Don't really needs scouts with no goody huts, but I may squeeze one in before the settler, just depends when my population is scheduled to grow. I might come back later and take Mandate from Heaven; just depends on what beliefs I get. Usually all the good ones are gone by the time I get there. I thought Desert Folklore + Sun God (all that citrus and wheat) + Holy Warriors might be interesting, but HW goes really fast. Tithe is usually gone too even if I found the 2nd or 3rd religion (usually I found the last one), and generally the AI's don't take that one.

ETA: I wonder if Honor is the path to victory, and the "no barbarians" is to throw us off? BTW, to get Desert Folklore, I can't waste a single turn getting the shrine up. City has to be on production focus early (but I lock a good food tile or two) and I can't prebuild the granary while waiting for piety to unlock. Otherwise I stay 2 or 3 turns away from getting a pantheon, with the price jumping just as I'm about there.

 

[Maxerman]

Defeated by Maria Theresa's culture victory on turn 334.

Can't say that was the most fun game I've ever had. Failed getting the second pantheon and DF by 2 turns (despite literally doing it the fastest way possible). Went sun gods instead. Failed getting a religion by 4-5 turns around turn 50. Failed getting Petra by (5-6 turns) despite b-lining from the get-go. Still managed to play the game solidly. Focused hard on tech. Caught up around artillery, and conquered the cultural leader Ramesses thinking I'd just take him out, get all his wonders, and then everyone else would be easier. What I should have done then was keep conquering to match Maria Theresa's growth who just went out of control. I don't think I have ever played a game with such a dominant AI in the end. Look at the score. Won every win condition at the same time pretty much. Steamrolled other players in a couple turns, proper blitzkrieg, and had some of the most insane demographics I've seen for an AI.

Giving it just a turn or 2 more with 2 musicians I would have influential over the other 5 remaining players, but with Maria it was even falling after she got the firewall, so without conquering much more earlier on or then destroying her in the late game which would have been impossible at that point, a cultural victory was not possible. Even though the only player I shared freedom with was Maria as well.

P.S check out the saddest world fair you'll ever see below, despite putting ALL (except 1) cities on it the first turn it began.

P.P.S the actual questions:

- How useful was your UA?

Not at all, didnt get a religion.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?

Stole 6-8 techs or so. Diplomats for additional tourism but wasn't enough.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?

DF and Petra was too contested. Almost got both. Perhaps with some RNG it's possible to get the perfect opening with DF, Petra and a religion.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

Tried to play safe, b-line the things I wanted even more than usual, focus hard on tech just to stay in the game. Then schmooze all the AIs and use them to help me take down Ramesses when I did. With the lack of aggressive AIs and playing nice probably had 25-30 research agreements that game as well.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?

Piety-2, Tradition-4, Open Aesthetics, Rationalism-3, Freedom-5, finish Rationalism, continue Aesthetics

- What techs did you prioritize ?

Pottery-->Mining-->Currency-->Philosophy-->Education-->Guilds-->Acoustics-->Scientific Theory-->Dynamite-->Archaeology-->Radio-->Plastics-->Telecommunication-->Internet

- What did you think of the map and settings?

If the game was on anything but deity it would have been a nice easy DF-->Petra game, but now it turned into a bit of RNG which I'm not a huge fan off. If you have bad RNG it is literally impossible to get a religion at which point the only way to win a culture victory is to be mostly a warmonger, seems like at least.

 

[JeffreyLXV]

I picked the wrong month to play Civ5 GOTM.... and to stop sniffing glue.

Never had a chance.

 

[socralynnek]

Submitted after retiring in turn 310 / 1880 AD, might play the rest out in the next couple of days...

I guess, I was lucky at a few points to have a game that lasted that long

Started as if I had a chance at a sacred sites cultural victory...
Concentrated on faith and opened up with liberty, got desert faith (lucky me), got a religion (I guess, the last one?)
But by then (and also when enhancing), I didn't get any of the buildings
Picked 100gold when a city first adopts the religion, happiness from shrines and culture from temples. Also increased range for the religion.

Was lucky enough that neither egypt nor Brasil founded a religion, so some spreading was possible.
Founded 6 cities and had problems balancing happiness, but with city states this went ok.

Of course liberty/ 6 cities was a problem for getting policies. So at the time I got an extra belief, sacred sites was long gone (but wouldn't bring me anything anyway)
But found out that way, that the bonus belief with which inquisitors and great prophets only cut my religion by half, is quite a strong one.
That way, I was able to spread my religion on 2/3 of my continent by the end of the game...that combined with tithe would have been nice...

Didn't build many defensive units, but no one attacked me... (good that my neighbors didn't have an opposed religion)
Avoided ideologies as long as I could to not get a minus there. Used spying only for CS to not get a negative attitude because of spying...

By allying some city states (Austria bought some of them, even the one to the W of my capital), I was even leading the first two world leader votes (but still too far from getting enough votes to win)

Austria was huge, but Egypt did well on my continent as well (captured Iroquis by the end and 2 of Brasil's cities), that is why no one of them will win via culture.

They started late with Apollo Program, but surely they'll win before world leader vote would go my way (well, if they conquer the 2nd one in the world leader votes, i.e. brasil...)

I am too far behind in tech, surely 4 city-tradition would have been much better for the land I got...

...but still interesting that I am doing quite ok...
(well, wouldn't survive a war very long...)

 

[socralynnek]

Played on: Austria won the space race on turn 327. Surprised I got that far... (and was lucky as mentioned...)

 

[Nizef]

I know this is long overdue but I still wanted to try this out. I wanted a "challenge". But this one is tough! I wanted to try a peaceful game, moved my setter inland to a hill to gain early production, even if the starting location surely was superior for sea trade routes and long term growth. Well the start was encouraging , I got the 4th pantheon and desert folklore was available. That I leveraged to a 3 city empire and the fourth religion on turn 53 and the fifth one went a couple of turns later. The only building left was monasteries, which was ok, given the land I had. But from there on... no place to expand and Austria running wild like crazy. So I gave up on turn 225. I was keeping the pace reasonably well regarding the techs (6th 4-5 techs behind Austria), and my faith production was 65 fpt, but everything else sucked. Low production and low growth was just going to lead to an honorable loss on turn 300-something. It was also "too late" for a military push. Egypt was strong in my game and had superior units all the time. Social Policies were: Piety 3, full Tradition and 2 Rationalism.


But all in all: a tough nut to crack and very warm "thank you" to the GotM staff for keeping it running!

 

[Nizef]

This one has been a thorn in my side since I tried it back in February. After doing some testing and reading all the comments (especially beetle´s), I came up with an (almost) fool proof way of getting DF. The right tile to start on is the desert tile SW of the starting point. This way you still settle on t0, but the thing is that you get silver in range right from the start. Then lock the oasis tile, research pottery and start on a monument and go to meet Kathmandu. When you hit Pop2 you work the silver tile to speed up construction. Since the Celts are in the game, 10 faith will not be enough for a pantheon. When the monument is done you build the shrine. You have to open up Piety first and if you are lucky this will be enough to get your pantheon with 15 faith. However, most likely you also have to take Organized Religion for the +1 faith. This has been enough to get the third pantheon in all of my test runs and DF has been available every time. But slowing down this process with even one turn, will most likely mean, that you will not get DF.

It is actually a shame that Austria is such a runaway, since this game deserves a lot more love and credit than I gave it at first glance. First of all, you will have the strategic resources within your borders with some small tweaks: iron will have to come from either Kathmandu or from conquering Memphis (both easy) and coal will most likely be bought (which actually is no problem when it is needed). Memphis is in such a good spot, that I strongly recommend to conquer it early for maximum benefit. It will give you two or even three luxuries (depending on where your first expos have been settled). Secondly the starting location and the lagoon (or mini-Medeterrean if you like) is beautiful and it will be easy to protect your sea trade routes.

Now I have played further and here is a short recap: After starting as described above, I settled two expos and took Memphis with XBs around t120-130. I also took Thebes with artillery about 100 turns later (mostly for fun), otherwise I have played peacefully. DF gave me such a fast religion that I could pick both pagodas and mosques (and world church) when founding a religion. Now on t270 I am generating 109 FPT and 20-25 culture per turn from my religion. I have had some setbacks with crucial wonders though, I lost Sistine Chapel by two turns and Broadway by three. I am doing okay with 70 Tourism per turn but most probably this will not be enough for a CV even if I beeline for telecoms and internet. However I will still push for any type of victory. Cities are at pop30-22-20-20-13.

UPDATE

I won a SV on t345. With Freedom or Order this would have been substantially faster, but Autocracy is not well geared for this VC. But CV... well, Austria had a base tourism output of 780 and their accumulated culture was 105.000. I managed only a base tourism output of 350. However, I feel that a CV would have been possible with hard beelining for cultural wonders. My FPT of 112 was awesome. I bought 4 GS (and I would have had the faith to buy even the fifth (6000 faith) if needed), 2 GE, 3 GAr,3 GW, 3 GM and several GP.

UPDATE #2

I tried one more time, with a slightly more aggressive playstyle. I conquered Egypt early, played peacefully until artillery and started to chew up Brazil. They had a lot of cultural wonders and I managed quite a few myself. However, I came no closer to a CV. I still won a SV on 320 to salvage a win and I managed to fend off the ideological pressure (Austria went autocracy again), but… my conclusion is that war against Austria is the only path to CV.

 

[Nizef]

This should rightly be

UPDATE #3

Finally! Cultural Victory on t329 and I played peacefully with Austria for the entire game until t328. Maybe it is childish, but I am a little proud of this, even if it was my fifth or sixth try on the same map (and I have played the first 60-70 turns at least 12 times). It is actually a tough nut to crack. I aquired Memphis and Thebes early on, beelined for Architecture (and was first to get there) and that got me the Louvre and 10-12 Antiquity sites. Then I beelined for Dynamite and conquered Brazil (every city but I sold the crappy Sao Paolo to Polynesia). After this, I was in a strong position for a SV (but maybe not for CV), but I thought to myself that this is my best try so far. So I gave it a shot, beelined for Internet and built the SOH and the CN Tower (and airports). When my tourism output hit 600, I used my generated faith for Great Musicians (one normally generated and four bought with faith). That gave 5 x 6260 Tourism. I sailed them to Austrias border, declared war and there it was!

Basically quite standard CV procedure, except for the Dynamite. But this time around, Austria did not build that many wonders. Actually Brazil and Songhai built more wonders than Austria and I suspect that this made the difference.

I was the only one to go Order. Policies were Piety opener, full Tradition, Exploration opener, full Rationalism, full Aestethics and 9 points in Order.

 

[zxcvbob]

I've been replaying some old games too. I tried this one again last night. Managed to get the 2nd or 3rd pantheon, and DF was still available. Stole 2 workers from Egypt, then made peace. Been on friendly terms ever since. Got my 2 expos up, NC in a reasonable time, and even built Hanging Gardens and Porcelain Tower. The plan was to declare war again with Egypt when the DOF was over, but he built the Great Wall seemingly about turn 20. (I'm sure it was really later than that)

Turn 200-ish, I'm almost caught up in science, and in last or next to last place in every other category. I took Freedom for my ideology. Brazil took Order and Egypt took Autocracy; I don't think anyone else has picked yet. As soon as I build SOL I will probably switch to Autocracy, unless I can somehow go to war with Egypt again and defeat them. Maybe Brazil will help... Or maybe I should start over.

 

[Nizef]

I've been replaying some old games too. I tried this one again last night. Managed to get the 2nd or 3rd pantheon, and DF was still available. Stole 2 workers from Egypt, then made peace. Been on friendly terms ever since. Got my 2 expos up, NC in a reasonable time, and even built Hanging Gardens and Porcelain Tower. The plan was to declare war again with Egypt when the DOF was over, but he built the Great Wall seemingly about turn 20. (I'm sure it was really later than that)

Aquired wisdom (he-he) has taught me that you are much better off, when you conquer Memphis early on. The location is awesome and it will get you another pop25+ city in the late game. You do not have to build all units yourself since either Pedro or Hiawatha most likely will join the fun. Thebes is also a good target, especially if Ramses manages a few wonders in the early game. I would start over, if Ramses builds the GW. You can play just fine if Pedro builds it, but you are best off, when somebody else than those two builds it. At some point you will most likely have to go for Rio de Janeiro as well. If Coal is a problem, you can also start a city near Zanzibar (happened to me two times that there was no Coal available on the market).

 

[so_what]

CV on 242 turn (updated as CV on 227 turn)

I had wanted to try this game for so long. It was only recently that I became confident enough. This is definitely not an easy map. I must say that I was pretty lucky, as I managed to get Desert folklore, Mosque, Pagoda, Cathedral, and sacred sites.

Early game
Since the starting position was pretty bad with limited land. The strategy I chose was to go liberty and start an early war with my neighbour to take their land. I stole workers from Egypt and sent my first liberty settler to the NW towards the south. After I researched construction, I used composite bows to take down Memphis. Unfortunately, Thebes was too big (26 defense) for me to take down with composite, and I have to look for another target. During this time, Rameses found desert folklore and mosque, which I happily let him spread to me and I soon had DF and mosque in every city.

Hiawatha's troops started appearing at my borders. So I bribed him to attack the other civs and declared war on him. I took down Grand River (Grand Mesa) when I hit my Pikemen timing. Later on, I went to Education (128t) and then beelined to Machinery. With my X-bow timings, I finally took down Thebes (which had Petra and numerous other wonders). During this time, the Celts had started spreading another religion - pagoda, cathedral and sacred sites! Pre industrial era, I had tripled faith buildings in 6 cities and was already generating 48 tourism.

Mid game
There was a strait to the other continent, where you can meet the other civs without researching astronomy. At 155t, my spy stole printing press from Austria. On the next turn, I started world congress as the civ that met everyone and have access to printing press.

At 167t I entered industrialization, used a Great General for coal (I actually knew where it was) and rush-bought 3 factories. At 168t, I picked Order. At this point of time, I have overtaken Austria in Science. Then, it was was pretty much about rushing to archaeology sites and Teching to Internet. I didn't go for radio to proposed international games as I wanted to play safe. This was a mistake that costed me about 15t to victory.

Late game (1st time)
Plastic at 210t and internet soon after. At 230t+, I was building hotels, airports and NVC. While waiting to start my international games, I sent my troops towards Brazil. It was an easy sweep as they only had renaissance troops whereas I had atomic era troops.

Suddenly, I realized my tourism was already strong enough to win, but what's the fun without completing the war? So while warring, I built a city to the north of the continent, gifted it to Austria. As I captured Rio, I used a GM for concert. And at 242t, the game is over.

Late game (replayed)
Replayed from 168t. This time, I had to use a GS earlier for Radio, so that I could propose International Games. Got to plastic at 212 turn and Internet at 223 turn. With 900+ toursim output, the game was won at 227t.

 

[socralynnek]

Wow, sacred sites win via external religions is very remarkeable, I guess.

But still sounds really well played if you were able to be the first on science despite some wars...