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TSG185 After Action

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by leif erikson, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Welcome to the TSG185 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!
    STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.

    Please attach your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.) In your post.
    - How useful was your UA?
    - Did you use spying to your advantage?
    - Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
    - How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
    - What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
    - What techs did you prioritize ?
    - What did you think of the map and settings?
     
  2. urbis

    urbis Chieftain

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    Retired defeated turn 233. Had 3 solid cities, but fluffed a chance to take several new cities the Americans were founding on my continent. Instead took a city off The Ottomans but later lost it back (along with a city I founded on the peninsula at the south end of our continent). Waaaay behind in tech, and can't see a path forward, so retired :-(
     
  3. Ozmandius

    Ozmandius Chieftain

    Joined:
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    14
    Well, looks like this is going to be a really long game so here is a midway report (first 250 turns).

    T1
    Assyria is quite a strong warmonger so looking forward to steam-rolling whoever my nearest neighbor is.
    Settle in place, build scout then monument.

    T10
    Hello? Where is everybody?
    Use the money from City of Gold to buy a Settler which I sent north to the salt. Perhaps I should have sent him west to Mt Sinai to get first pick in the religions but more on that later.
    Looks like I have to play Liberty and settle everywhere this game. Not my best game but I can't see any other way to do it.

    T13?
    Meet the Turks. There are other players in this game!
    Finally, someone, I can steal workers from. I explore a little bit in the area and meet the Iroquois.

    Actually around now I got a message that someone's capital had been taken which happened on the other continent. Still don't know who that was.

    I learn that the AI cheats in a new way. In the picture below you can see that I have started stealing workers (and another has just shown up to be stolen). But see that horse tile? I was watching it waiting for a worker to show up when a pasture magically appeared on it! No worker ... the pasture just popped into existence in one turn. I had to declare war and burn it down before workers would show up to repair it. Anyway, over the next 70 to 80 turns that Warrior sat in that tile and stole a total of 10 workers.



    T118
    Finished most of my settling (later added one more city). Might have still been stealing workers from the Turks but around now he decided to settle that landbridge between out two areas and so my worker-stealing days ended. Considering the Turks score, all those workers must have cost him.

    My second settlement (the free one from Liberty) was next to Mt Sinai. My eventual religion was (tithes, improved production, happy shrines, texts). All quite useful. Kind of wish I made it my first settlement as I'ver been struggling with happiness the whole game and would have been nice to get Pagodas .. but then I would have to give up the production bonus which is not bad.



    T120 - T200

    T200 was the end of the first Turkish war (and as I later found out ... the last Turkish War). Anyway, back to T120.

    Once the Turks settled the city on the land bridge they started attacking me pretty consistently. Fortunately, most of their attacks were troops floating their way across the water north of the land bridge. If you look at the picture below you can see the road I built along the coast (with my reliable Turkish workers) to shuttle missile troops around who killed most of the troops before they were able to land. Had a couple of pike that were able to pin the ones that did make it to land until the archers could kill them. I was also fortunate that the whole time this was going on the Turks were also fighting at least one other AI. For a change this had nothing to do with me, the three of them (Turks, Indonesians, Iroquois) were just packed so tighly together they had nowhere to expand. Eventually the Americans joined in the fun as well.

    Anyway, once I got privateers that pretty much stopped the Turkish invasion attempts and eventually let me capture the land-bridge city. My main goal for the first 50 turns of this period was to build up all my cities. After that I started building military units so I could take the war to the Turks.

    During this time, the Chinese got wiped out by the Egyptians and Zulu.

    Around T180, I suddenly realised that not one of the surviving AI had picked Tradition so I put one point in tradition and built the Hanging Gardens (also got the faster border expansion which was nice). I also kind of wasted 1 culture pick on Aristocracy as I was getting desperate for happiness. Other culture picks were exploration (I could see that navy was going to be important so wanted the extra speed and vision range) and maritime infrastructure (since almost every city was a port). But then kind of wasted one pick on Naval tradition (again, desperate for happiness).

    Around T200 managed to capture Instanbul (Turks were fighting 4 people at this point) but he offered Ankara to me in a peace deal so I peaced out figuring I would restart the war in about 10 turns once I upgraded to cannons and gatlings).

    Finally, I managed to become friends with the Americans, Iroquois and Indonesians and eventually get through 2 rounds of Research Agreements with these 3 countries.



    T200 - T243

    Ran into a couple of problems in this time period.

    First, some turns back, Ideologies started to get picked. The first 4 countries (Egypt, Zulu, Shoshone, Americans) all picked Autocracy. A little later, the Iroquis picked Freedom while the Indonesians picked Order. I had no choice but to pick Autocracy as well as I could never stand the happiness hit for anything else. I put off the decision as long as I could to avoid the diplomatic effects but eventually had to go Autocracy as well. While I waited on this decision I put 3 culture picks into Rationalism (right side). Will probably put one more pick to pick up the first left side slot.

    Second problem, the Turks collapsed much quicker than I thought they would. By the time my 10 turn peace was over they were gone. Almost immediately, the Americans and Iroquois declared war on the Indonesians (was a joint declaration I think). I wanted to get involved BUT I also wanted to complete my research agreements. Since I still had open borders with everyone I engaged in some cheesy tactics to help the Indonesians capture cities which I knew I would be taking as soon as the Indo research agreement completed. An example is below. See the Iroquis trying to take a city from Indonesia but for some strange reason can't get a melee unit in range to attack the city? Similar tactics on the American front let me help the Indonesians capture one American city on that side. Of course, about 2 turns after this (Research Agreement done) I denounced the Indonesians as war-mongers and declared war on them to help my faithful American and Iroquois allies. Captured the two cities below quite quickly (and the one on the American front).



    So here we are at T243. Indonesia went down pretty quick between me and the Americans. I peaced out at the very end, just before the Americans captured the last Indonesian city. Maybe I can revive them later, once the inevitable war with America starts.

    However, in the short run me and the Americans are buddies. I finally picked Autocracy and now he loves me again. Even signed another research agreement with me.

    Over the past 40 turns finally got my research running properly (never trust the AI to manage your cities, I'm very bad at this (=lazy), always watch your cities!). On T243 I finally caught up to the tech leader (The Zulu? Since when are Zulus tech leaders.) and am just about to start a war with the Iroquois.

    Actually, a pile of Iroquois units started showing up on my front about 10 turns before this so I immediately bribed the Zulu and Shoshone to declare war on him (for like 5 gold each ... they must have not liked him very much. Shortly after that, the Shoshone declared war on me, but other than Merchant routes being cut I haven't seen any sign of the Shoshone. For about the past 100 turns the Shoshone, Zulu and Egyptians have been fighting each other in various combinations and it does appear that the Shoshone are losing out (currently Shohone fighting both Egypt and Zulu, as well as being at war with me and the Iroquois). I think I need to bribe the Zulus to start fighting the Egyptians again (easy to do) and get them to make peace with the Shoshone (tough to do). Sure don't want the Egyptians to take over that continent



    T243 onwards?

    Well, clear out the Iroquois first. If the Americans decide to remain friendly I might push tech till I get XCOM. Guess we'll see.

    Thinking about putting my next three picks into Autocracy to get the really massive happiness boost from the military buildings. Would be really nice to be able to stop worrying about that.

    Finally, I just took over the leadership of the world council. In 5 turns we get to vote on whether we want to hold a World's Fair or not. Just a bit later than normal for this to happen. World Council is a good place to boost your diplomatic relations, either by voting for people to become council leader, or picking items that people like.

    And that's it for now. Got to be at least another 100 turns in this game, perhaps more. Will take quite some time depending on how long and how soon the fighting starts.

    Will post the results when done.

    ***************************************************************
    1 Week later
    ***************************************************************
    Well, the game has really slowed down, or at least I'm a really slow player. Always check out all attacks before I do them to see what combinations I need to do etc. It's not unusual for a war turn to take 15 minutes for me. As you might guess, I never play PvP.

    Started the Iroquois war, and first couple of turns went quite well. Army took one city and fleet took another (both former Turkish cities). As you can see in the picture above, those cities walls were only about 40 points so not much of a challenge.

    The next rank of cities were 70 pointers though. Got set up to attack the first of those and just get started when they tick up to 100. Ouch. And suddenly the Iroquois sent in a wave of Great War infantry and cannons, and shortly after, Great War Bombers. I have no air at all.

    I start retreating back into my territory and that citadel you see in the picture below was created to help me defend against that attack. The next 10 turns go back and forth a little bit but I'm never really able to threaten those 2 cities. T265 I'm putting on another bit of pressure but another wave of units show up so I get ready to pull back again.

    However, things were going a bit better in the oceanfront down south. Had pretty much destroyed the Iroquois navy and upgrade my frigates to Battleships. Managed to take one of his coastal cities which he took back on T265 but wonder of wonders, he decides to peace out with me and gives me Grand River and Buffalo Creek as part of the peace deal. Lucky! No way I could have got them in the next 10 turns with what I had.



    And that was pretty much the end of the Iroquois because by the time that 10 turn peace ended my artillery was upgrading to rocket artillery and the Iroquois had only 2 decent cities left. With the fleet at one end and rockets at the other, he only lasted another 5 rounds before I took capital and last good city.

    Did run into a happiness problem with that first peace. Those 2 cities dropped my happiness to -15. But 5 turns later, I finally got the Autocracy happy boost (Barracks etc +2) and happiness stopped being a problem. One group of rebels (3 WWII Infantry) did appear and cause some damage before I cleared them but not a big deal.

    A bigger deal was that ~T260, Egypt wiped out the Shoshone and now they are way out front (like 1000 point ahead of us). Fortunately, they start a war with the Zulu (who I had bribed to fight America) so I have a bit of a breathing space to finish off the Iroquis. Was getting really worried that he would declare on me while I was stale-mated with the Iroquis but it all worked out in the end.

    Around T270 (while still at peace with the Iroquois), the Americans agree to start a war with me against Egypt in 10 turns.

    My tech research is peaking out and I've moved up to nukes, and almost got XCOM and Stealth Bombers. Egypt (as I later find out) also has nukes.

    So, just as I finish off the Iroquois (the second time) the war starts with Egypt (~T280). Egypt immediately peaces out with the Zulu but not much happens for the first few turns as I'm busy moving fleets and troops into the new theatre.

    An Egyptian fleet makes one strong push in the direction of my capital. I manage to kill his destroyers though, so his battleships bombard away but no one is around to actually capture a city. Eventually, my subs chase him away.

    Meanwhile, my navy arrives at his lower-left corner (former Shoshone territory), along with the addition of one carrier that provides fighter cover and has 2 nukes.

    I nuke Washake, the battleships level the walls and a privateer takes the city and then next turn I peace out (after that departing Egyptian fleet drops a nuke on my capital).

    America peaces out shortly after but I'm able to keep him occupied with the Zulu.

    I start moving XCOM, bombers and rocket artillery to my foothold on Egypt's continent. I have the advantage of being adjacent to the Zulu with open borders while the Egyptian does not, so I have several avenues of attack available to me.

    Around T295, I restart the war with Egypt, burn down 1 small adjacent city to give me some room, capture his last city behind my lines and then start heading north. It's slow going as Egypt has a LOT of units. I eventually nuke his stronghold city (just after 8 aircraft moved in). He has made another naval push in the north towards my capital but he doesn't get as close this time, which is why he nuked some other city of mine. I start to sink every carrier in sight now. In addition, I use the world council to ban the production of nuclear weapons (after I built 12 or so). I'm pretty sure I'm the only one with nukes left.

    Meanwhile, back on land, I start punching out a few cities, choosing to liberate them instead of occupying. This is handy as it pushes his units way back, somewhat scattering them and making them easier to target in small groups. In addition, I still have open borders with these people and Egypt does not so it really helps in the maneuvering. Currently, Egypt is sending his armies down the cost by seas which makes it really easy to kill them. Oh yes, the Shoshone are back.

    Another, oh yes. Finally discovered who the missing empire was that disappeared on T20 nor so. India! They started between Egypt and China but I guess they never got their elephants into production.

    Currently, it's T316 and I now think we are moving into the end game. Don't know how long it will take but unless all 3 of them (Zulu, America, Egypt) gang up on me I'm pretty sure that I can finish up a Domination victory around T400.

    You may notice that my research has mostly disappeared. Once I got XCOM and Stealth Bombers I sold off all my research centers and public schools to save money (quite a bit actually). Maybe I should sell all the universities as well.



    See if I can finish things off in the next week or so.

    [Stopped playing this one as victory was pretty clear though would take a while to grind out. BananaGod's strategy below is a far better approach to this game.]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    so_what and CHINA-JERRY like this.
  4. Ozmandius

    Ozmandius Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Teach me!

    Pretty sure someone can do a better job than me. I've attached 4 save files below. Please take one and show me how I could do better. Maybe I should have been more aggressive after settling rather than build up and defend for 50 turns.

    Let me know how it turns out.

    T118 Settling finished
    T200 Turks finished
    T243 Indonesia finished
    T265 Iroquois finished (actually this save is just before the peace deal. He offered a bunch of cities which I switched to the ones I wanted. Feel free not to make peace and see how it goes!)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. BananaGod

    BananaGod Chieftain

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    I had end this game at 222 turns

    This map is too easy to win,you will not be harassed by any AI.
    Just build 10+ cities and farming to get XCOM, you will get this powerful unit in 190-220 turns,when you get XCOM,you will win in 20 turns.

    The basic building sequence
    Monument→Workshop→Aqueduct→Libraly
    When you need Happiness or have no technology,build other you need

    The basic technology sequence
    Metal casting→Education→Industrialization→Scientific theory→Fertilizer→Astronomy(if you need to build Observatory)→Plastic→Satellites
    When you get Plastic,you can finish spaceship in 20 turns. But now you can not do it,just get XCOM in 10 turns

    The policy sequence
    1. The tradition policy,just open,very efficient
    2. Next you should open Liberty,get "Collective Rule" to build city,before 120 turn,you should build 9-13 cities。when close,about 120 turns,you get a Engineer
    3. In 50-70 turns,after you get Citizenship of Liberty,you should open Piety to build the religious buildings quickly
    4. Build Oracle in 80-100 turns,and open Patronage
    5. Net the Commerce is need,get Merchantilism when you need to buy Lab
    6. Rationalism is necessary,get Secularism,and then get Free Thought. But you must get Order first
    7. The Order is the most powerful policy tree, the freedom is rubbish. First,get Five-Year Plan,Second,get Workers' Faculties. Then turn to Rationalism and Merchantilism
    8. Buy lab in your all cities,you will get XCOM in 10 turns
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    @BananaGod: I don't think you're finished yet, although with *all* victory conditions turned off it's hard to say what the endpoint is. I'm pretty sure there's at least one capital you haven't captured yet. But your game is truly impressive. I've been studying your saves to see the progression. (I'm a 4 or 5 cities Tradition player, never play at deity level, and don't really know how to do Liberty) Monument→Workshop→Aqueduct→Library is a new one to me. And you don't bother with a National College until late in the game? Wow. But it seems to work.

    I like the part where you take an Ottoman city in a peace deal, then immediately sell it to one of Suleiman's enemies for bunch of gold.

    Not sure what happens around turn 190 because there's a big gap, but suddenly your science per turn jumps from a few hundred (and your still in last place by a wide margin) to over 2000 and you quickly close the gap and pull ahead. Public schools and research labs, I suppose, bought really cheap with Skyscrapers, Mercantilism, and Big Ben. That's also about when you finally build the National College,

    The barbarians eat me alive for the first 70 turns or so. I've been opening Honor to deal with them; will probably come back and add the Discipline policy right before I start building paratroopers and X-Coms, and by taking Honor early I get some of my culture investment back (plus the barbs don't kill all my scouts and warriors)

    BTW, I won't be submitting a game this time because that would be cheating, but I'm learning a lot and actually having fun with it which I didn't expect.
     
  7. BananaGod

    BananaGod Chieftain

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    @zxcvbob:Thank you for your appreciation!
    1. The National College is unnecessary at the beginning stage. It is difficult to build,not worth,especially when you have too many cities,it will slow down the game considerably.
    2. Liberty, the happiness is the key. Set your city on luxury can solve the problem immediately,as early as possible to develop luxury. Build the happiness building when necessary.
    3. Religious:Tithing>Others. Pagodas>Religious Center=Mosques>Choral music=Asceticism>Others. Itinerate>Others>Texts,Texts is unuseful.
    4. Industrialization(165T),I had buy 3 factories,and picked Five-Year Plan at 166T
    5. Aroud 190T,Use writers to accelerate policy. At 196T I had use Oxford to research Plastic,Got Loans from AI by GDP, buy research labs in all cities immediately
    6. 196~205T, Use Scientist and RA to research technology, Got XCOM at 205T
    7. Barbarians:Build 4 archers and form a team,you can destroy a camp in 1~3 turn. I had destroy all camps aroud 70T
    8. Honor:Unuseful,Any additional of other policy will cause losses

    Moderator Action: Text size amended by Rob8XFT
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2019
  8. so_what

    so_what Chieftain

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    Yes, Xcom push is an ingenious way to play it. Takes advantage of the map and turns a tedious domination game into simple science game.:)
     
  9. Ozmandius

    Ozmandius Chieftain

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    @BananaGod

    Very impressive. I tried another game following your advice and it was much simpler to play. It shows how important good policy picking is.

    My game (didn't quite finish but got up to XCOM at T225 and took a couple of capitals) was a little slower. Partly because the Turks never died and never made peace with me. Got plenty of workers but also had to build a little army to fend off their pushes. Also, pretty sure I still need to micro my cities better.

    I have three questions.

    1) Did you finish rationalism so you could buy great scientists with faith?

    2) Do you always protect all city-states? Is the 5 points worth the possible diplomatic fights?

    3) If Mount Sinai had NOT been there, how would you have played the game?

    Thanks for sharing your files.
     
  10. BananaGod

    BananaGod Chieftain

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    Ozmandius:1. Yes,I had finish rationalism and buy 2 great scientists with faith. But only used one to research the technology line to XCOM
    2. Not always, When it had a good mission that i could finish, I will always protect
    3. There are three benefits from Religion, Economics, Happiness, Culture. If Mount Sinai had NOT been there, possibility of 90 percent i would not found Religion, no Economics from Religion, but Culture is uncertain, Happiness usually not a problem. Get Religion from AI,Open borders to your neighbor who have good beliefs, usually you get good benefits. Found less cities if Happiness is not enough, for example, found 10 but not 13. Use the Engineer to build The Forbidden Palace is very useful,it can provide a lot of happiness.
    Commerce is unnecessary when your culture is not enough, but as usual open the Pty and Patronage.

    Moderator Action: Please don't post with everything in bold and size 4...this has been amended (by Rob8XFT). The larger size print and bold characters are there to help stress certain words - if the whole text is in that format, it loses that ability.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2019
  11. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    Hmmm. I thought the large text was because he was posting Japanese. (double-wide characters)

    Anyhoo, I tried this again (several times, actually) and settling on the hill instead of settling in place makes a huge difference. Instead of all the barbarians from the 3 or 4 camps converging on my Mt Sinai city (which is not on a hill) they split up and attack both cities, and Assur can easily kill the ones that go there. So they don't overrun Nineveh. (I think it's Nineveh) I pick up all those fish tiles with my third city (by the salt.) Assur can't use the fish and crabs until I research Sailing, an the extra hammer is especially useful while I'm building those first 3 or 4 archers.

    I only stole about 5 workers from Turkey this time, but that hurt him enough that someone (I think it was Hiawatha) took him out. Then America took Istanbul , which was good because I was friends with America.

    Did pretty well until approaching turn 200. Settled 12 cities and focused on population growth. Built Oxford in Nineveh instead of Assur and used it for Plastics. Assur was busy building the Eiffel Tower at the time, which I got. Then I immediately bought research labs in Assur and all my observatory cities, and started building labs in my other high-pop cities. But that only got me to about 1200 BPT instead of 2000+, even when all the labs were finished. I didn't build any academies with my great scientists, instead I bulbed them starting 8 turns after Plastics and buying 5 or 6 labs. I used all my great artists (built the guild really late) for golden ages. Still it took me until almost turn 300 to get Nanotechnology. I upgraded all my paratroopers to xcoms and attacked Egypt with a bunch of missile cruisers, a battleship, a sub, and a couple destroyers. (Egypt was causing most of happiness problems, plus they have Prora, Great Lighthouse, and a few other good wonders) Ten turn into that war, I'm not doing so good. Ramses's bombers are somehow able to kill my missile cruisers even tho' they are all clustered together for AA defense. I'm killing more of his units than he's killing mine, but because of all the deity AI bonuses he can build replaces a lot faster than me and they start out with 2 free promotions. I haven't captured a single city yet (got close to capturing one.) America just declared war on Egypt, so that should help.

    I have about 10000 faith and nothing to do with it. I should probably finish the Commerce tree instead of Rationalism at this point, and buy a bunch of merchants...

    I'm doing something wrong between public schools and research labs and can't figure out what. Maybe I need to bulb some scientists earlier to speed up Plastics? By the time I pulled ahead in science (way ahead now), the AI's had 100-strength cities, bombers, battleships, and nukes, and a lot of them
     
  12. vadalaz

    vadalaz Chieftain

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    You say you haven't finished Rationalism, so it sounds like your social policy progress is lagging behind your research. Did you win the World's Fair? I haven't played this map, so I don't know the cultural CS situation here, but generally in science games it's critical to focus on culture, especially once the CS bonuses get maxed out in Industrial era.

    1200 bpt on 12 cities at Plastics is on the low side. Did you have all your cities produce Research, and assign most (if not all) of your citizens to work specialist slots and trading posts? It's fine to starve your cities as long as they don't actually lose any population. Once you've done all that, take note of what your bpt is, multiply by 8 to get GS bulb value. Then check the tech tree to find out how much science you need to reach the desired endgame techs (Nanotech and Stealth in this case). If it turns out that you can't get there yet in 8-10 turns of research and with the amount of GSs available, don't bulb yet and for now focus on growth and getting more trading posts and specialist slots available.

    I think it's mostly a culture problem that you're facing though. That 10000 faith would've really helped if you had finished Rationalism earlier.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  13. BananaGod

    BananaGod Chieftain

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    I'm a Chinese, thanks!There are only Chinese people believe in industry in the world. The Japanese are not so smart,they believe in Capitalism like you.
    Most Chinese players choice order, not freedom. Our Club educates every player to buil a big and powerful country, and learn to be patient when too weak.
    In this game, we learned a long time ago that we need to lay a good foundation first. Industry is the core of our game.
    So we choose the basic building sequence:
    Monument→Workshop→Aqueduct→Library
    We choose the basic technology sequence:
    Metal casting→Education→Industrialization→Scientific theory→Fertilizer→Astronomy(if you need to build Observatory)→Plastic
    All cultural policies serve to increase value of output or happiness.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  14. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    My culture is terrible. I have Royal libraries everywhere (of course) and I built the writers guild right away, but don't seem to be getting many great writers and I bulbed one or two. I've built a few wonders, but mostly ones that don't supply much culture (Hanging Gardens, Oracle, Eiffel, Kremlin, Neuschwanstein), and it took forever to find any cultural CS's. All my cities have monuments and pagodas, but that's about it. And I have a natural wonder that supplied culture. (El Dorado?) I have been bulbing all my great artists for golden ages. I did win the Worlds Fair.

    I should have researched Archaeology sooner; it's not on the path to Industrialization or Scientific Theory, and I don't think I picked it up until after Fertilizer and Plastics. The landmarks really helped my cultural output but came too late.

    My cities are mostly building stock exchanges, zoos, stadiums, etc, then paratroopers and missile cruisers. I didn't think about building beakers.

    This is still better than I ever do at deity :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  15. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    (I hope this is not too off-topic here) I'm still struggling with the right path thru the Renaissance and Industrial eras. Public schools are expensive and really don't do much except in your high-pop cities. The only reason to build them everywhere is as a prerequisite for research labs. If I ignore Steel and Gunpowder, and beeline Industrialization or Scientific Theory, one of the AI's (usually Hiawatha) declares war and I have trouble defending. So I've going for Chemistry first (nice boost to production more-so than the cannons), then Industrialization (and immediately buy 3 factories and start building Big Ben), then Fertilizer (I have a *lot* of farms without fresh water), and only them beeline Scientific Theory and Plastics It seems really slow. And when should I take Astronomy so I can build/buy observatories?

    Is there a guide somewhere in another discussion about how to play Liberty science games? Thanks.
     
  16. Ozmandius

    Ozmandius Chieftain

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    @Bob, why don't you post your T200 game file?
    Maybe we can spot something (actually there's always something).

    For example, don't 'bulb' your great writers until 10 turns after you win the World's Fair (which doubles culture output and therefor doubles bulb effect). Took me a long time to figure that out.

    As for Wonders, I would suggest that you focus on those that have empire-wide effect rather than city effect. For example, Hanging Garden is pretty good but Oracle (which gives 1 policy) affects the whole empire. As Banana mentioned, Forbidden City is also good, Gives about 15 happiness in a wide empire.

    Oh yes, I have Astronomy as nice to have and not must-have. Only a couple of your cities will be next to mountains. In a wide empire not quite so important.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  17. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,087
    Location:
    SE Minnesota
    Thanks. It's on my other computer; I will post it tomorrow. I took Cathedrals this time instead of Feed the World for my 2nd follower belief for more culture. I have about 10 or 11 cities, and all of them have pagodas and most have cathedrals. I will eventually build all the culture buildings just in my core cities, and will try to build Broadway instead of Eiffel Tower when I get that far because it ultimately gives a lot more culture and will allow me to work a music guild.

    Hanging Gardens was so I would have enough food to work more specialists in my capital (also because it was attainable, and I think it helps build settlers faster) I got beat to Oracle, Petra, and Colossus just before starting them (good thing I didn't waste a great engineer) I used the engineer for Machu Picchu.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  18. Ozmandius

    Ozmandius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Hi,

    took a quick look and here are my thoughts.

    1) You are letting the AI control your cities and the city AI is really stupid (forever assigning pop to the wrong places). This has caused your city growth to slow down quite a bit.
    2) Trade routes should be focussed on city growth (sending food to different cities). At the beginning, a few caravans OK, especially to get inland cities going but should be boats after that to get your coastal cities growing faster. Your economy will do OK without that little bit of external trade.
    3) Writer's Guild etc should be in coastal cities as they will have larger pop (at most only one in the cap).
    4) The first city-states you should try and control are the culture ones. 50% of my culture comes from those city-states. My culture at turn 200 was roughly double yours with all the extra coming from city-states. You have quite a bit of gold. Maybe spend some to get control of those CS (especially if they ever put up the gold quest).
    5) I had only 1 National Wonder at this point, and I shouldn't have bothered to build it. World wonders were; Forbidden City, Sistine Chapel, Big Ben and Oracle. Later I built the National College but it was also a bit of a waste.
    6) Explore more to find more city-states and trade partners (though it looks like everyone else is dead at this point).

    1, 2 and 4 are probably the biggest points. Take a look at Banana's game files and look at how he has allocated his city pop at each stage of the game. See how he is using his trade routes and note which wonders he builds and which city-states he took over.

    Just my opinion. Anyone else have advice?
     
  19. so_what

    so_what Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Took a quick look and I would advise you to watch some youtube gameplays on deity (do search for those for the most recent version i.e. bnw 279). To be honest, there are many things that deviate from standard deity practices. Nothing wrong with that at immortal or emperor, but deity is a game of efficiency. If you are not following the best practices, you may be ruining your chance to win. That said, it is much easier to watch and learn.

    Just off the head.
    1. Use the Enhance User Interface, so you don't forget to trade lux and sell All your horses and irons.
    2. Exploring to meet more city states, trade partners, NWs are important
    3. Prioritize Rationalism and Ideology over other policies, they give the highest in-game impact. Don't take additional policies unless you are sure u can finish Rationalism and Ideology.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,087
    Location:
    SE Minnesota
    Thanks. (what's a NW?) I've replayed the first 100 turns of this many times. The Turks are quite the wildcard; sometimes I can steal about 10 workers, then either Indonesia or Iroquois declare war and finish them off. And sometimes I can only get one or two workers (because he just ignores that pillaged horse tile) and before I know it he's the tech leader and he's coming after me with Janissaries before I even have swords or pikes. (I just quit at that point)

    I've started putting my cities on production focus, but assigning most citizens to high-food or high-gold tiles. When a new citizen is born, I move him to a food tile -- unless I'm building a wonder or something like that, then I switch everything to production. And I'm not building all my settlers in Assur; I build a few early settlers elsewhere, mainly at that stage where I'm at negative GPT and I don't want to build anything more that has maintenance costs. My first trade route sends food to Nineveh because it has the Mt Sinai tile locked and otherwise won't grow at all (I unlock it while waiting for my 1st and 2nd prophet to show up after I get enough faith points) Eventually it can work enough farm tiles to grow a little, then the caravan goes the other way and sends food to Assur.

    I have been opening Piety because I have a lot of shrines and temples to build. But maybe that's a mistake; that policy should open either Patronage or Commerce. (I also really like the Exploration tree, but won't be putting enough there to be worthwhile)
     

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