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TSG73 Opening Actions

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Game Of The Month' started by Hammer Rabbi, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    Welcome to the TSG73 Opening Actions thread. This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. There are no posting restrictions as such (apart from normal decency), although we encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind. :)

    STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

    Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. We are going to try something new and limit your game description in this thread to the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    - What were your initial priorities?
    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    - Did you find the Kris Swordsman's random promotion to be useful/interesting?

    Edit reason: added a question
     
  2. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    Prior to opening the save I put the mouse over the map type and saw that this was a continents map thanks to the tool tip exposing what type of landmass "Mystery" really is. I was first a little disappointed that this was a continents map, because that makes this civ's UA worthless until mid-late game when you don't really want to settle new cities anyway.

    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    I moved the warrior NE 1 tile and saw even more jungle, so I settled in place to avoid wasting several turns trying to find a decent city location. This starting area is one of the worst I've seen. It's bad enough being stuck in suck a low production starting area. Then to have one luxury require chopping jungles and the other requiring clearing marsh was just adding insult to injury. I say this because with such a low production and low food starting area, everything that's require to get a civ going is slowed way down. All of this combined effectively puts the player at near Epic speed for the early game while the AI is at standard, which makes in turn makes this King level game play more like an Emperor level game.

    - What were your initial priorities?
    Build some scouts and start propping for war.

    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    Pottery (tech ruin finished it 1 turn early, wasting that ruin), Archery, Mining, Bronze Working, Calender, Beelined composite bows, Iron Working for the UU (almost finished this) and have a beeline to markets queued up before my economy crashes completely.

    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    I figured Byzantine, Spain, England, Huns then France as that would form a nice circle around this huge continent.

    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Tradition Opener, Liberty to the free settler, Legalism with plans to finish Tradition then go into Rationalism.

    After scouting a bit I was very disappoint in this map once I saw that 5 of the 7 AI's were on this one huge continent, because that meant by the time I could even use the UA, it would be pointless to build more cities as I'd only have 2 AI left to take out. Indonesia works best on Small Continents, Large Islands or Archipelago where it can take advantage of the UA's extra luxuries, especially in a domination game where you need more happiness.

    I've taken Constantinople and was healing the remains my initial army before heading towards Spain when Spain and the Huns both DoW'd. So I made peace with Byzantium leaving them with 1 city. I waited a few turns to finish construction so I could upgrade the archers before pushing on to Spain. As soon as the upgrades started I captured and razed 1 city they forward settled and am now working on Madrid.

    I'm up to turn 87 now. With the exceptionally slow start and disappointing map type for this civ I don't know if I'm going to bother finishing this one. I might change my mind in a few days and tough it out.
     
  3. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    That map is damn terrible.
    First its continent, one of the worst map type for my personal enjoyment.
    Then it's Indonesia... with a unique Garden in a map with no rivers around and only a few lake. And its UA is bad for continent requiring settling useless cities post Astronomy. Never really tried their UU but since the only iron is far south... meh. I wonder why archipelago/islands wasn't chosen.

    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    Moved warrior south and settler north on the hill. Jungle everywhere and barely anything interesting, at least settler reveals luxuries so I settle there.
    - What were your initial priorities?
    Not ragequitting.
    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    Luxuries require Callendar, Masonry and Bronze Working so yeah... that.
    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    I'm like 20turns behind my usual CB rush but I wanted to kill England first. Attila killed her before me and has a bit too many swords. Spain Dowed me, I'll probably get to her first then.
    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Tradition Opener, then Liberty. Due to low production, Oracle feels too slow don't know if I'll be able to grab it after NC.

    I'll see if I'll continue, I hate this map with a passion.

    My guess is that I should have just go OCC, make archers and kill two AI fast.

    Edit: decided I won't finish.
     
  4. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

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    Well, if it makes you feel better, the Candi (their unique Garden) specifically states it doesnt require a river or lake to be built. But otherwise I see your frustration. Not all civs, map types, and VCs are for everyone but at least there will be a new gotm in two weeks to hasten forgetting about this one. ;)
     
  5. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Nah that's ok, that's just what I get for usually avoiding such start in my normal plays. Now I'm just curious as to what better players can bring on that one.

    In the end the candi probably won't have got that much use either due to king domination not really requiring faith since it's not supposed to last long.
     
  6. Maverick_VII

    Maverick_VII Chieftain

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    Build the city on the hill next NW to start. Followed Tommymints polandguide approach from last TSG. Settled three cities, first SE, by the gold, second west of that at the coast (to get marble and iron) and fourth by ivory. All pretty terrible really. Slooow production. Bought a worker which promptly got stolen by a CS when Napoleon, Isabella and Huns all DOWed me. Lost fourth city quickly, held off at capital, then lost second city on t97, then ragequit.
     
  7. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

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    settled on NW hill.. built two scouts while researching archery.. then an archer.. picked up pottery and AH ruin early then a calendar ruin later.. bought banana tile, deer tile, and hill tile while researching masonry/bronze working.. went liberty and settled one city far west by the marble during the theodora war.

    met all civs then stole workers from Constantinople and the CS west of cap.. built four archers which took theodora's cap (only city) and a settler.. spain and attila DOWd me after that while the others denounced me.. nobody sent units.. i marched on madrid and took it around turn 95.. lost my first GG during that siege on a mis-click but it ended up working out as it drew the lone sniper out of the city.. attila begged peace during that siege.. was a slow grind taking madrid as i was killing their units and getting more composites out.. after i took the cap i made peace.. i didnt have enough units to go full genocide as gold is scarce..
     
  8. budweiser

    budweiser King of the Beers

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    I wont be submitting this. I did fine, but made a tactical error.

    Attila offered me a joint DOW on England so I accepted. I let him kill all of England and then I denounced him. Instant popularity with everyone else. Then I DoW Attila to take all his lands. All green in diplo with everyone.

    But here come the tactical error. A ram was next to London and when I capture London, he would take it right back, killing my Kris. This happened 2 or 3 times and I lost mass on my forces. So dead end.

    I was hoping for a cultural or diplomatic game to focus on trade and religion. I believe these are Indonesia's greatest strengths. The UU is more defensive insurance.
     
  9. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

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    Settled on hill to NW. Mixing Tradition and liberty (for free settler), city to north of capital for wine and cotton and to box in Theodora, who I think I will leave to last, as most of the other AI seem to be to the south. Next city near mountain to the south - land side, gets me marble, iron, spices and gold (need to build a citadel to grab gold - too far away)

    All cities build at least 1 archer. Attack and take Madrid with 3 archers, spearman, and 3 CB's (no money to upgrade the rest :(

    Raze another spanish city to the east in a bad location, then make peace. Attack and take London (Hanging gardens) after making peace with Spain. Build pyramids in capital. Make peace with England. Both now have only 1 city each.

    Then realise I have screwed up a lot, I should have traded luxuries with France and Attila *before* attacking England, they wont trade at all. Happiness now at -9 but have marble and citrus online soon.

    Hoping one good swordsman, and six CB's will be able to take attila's court :/
     
  10. flipsix3

    flipsix3 Warlord

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    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    Horrible! Having said that, warrior revealed more jungle, settled in place rather than waste 2-3 turns trying to find a better spot. Plan for early Liberty opening to get 2nd city up and running.

    - What were your initial priorities?
    As above, get 2-3 cities settled and running, look for CB/Kris first wave.

    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    All over the place, because I play like an idiot sometimes (and Domination isn't my thing). Made some really poor choices, including delaying IW as I didn't think I had any Iron despite there being 6 next to my 3rd city spot.

    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    None yet, was looking at Byzantium to lock out the north, but after Attila took down England on T75 (no second city up) and started asking for assistance on France and Spain I decided to prep for defence in the first instance. I'm thinking I'll see if he DoW's either then maybe try and mop up one (or both) side(s) in the process. Really poor strategy, I know.

    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Liberty as far as free Settler, and then Trad. Want to get 2-3 cities up quick and lock out a portion of land. Capital is v.poor but at least has 2 Lux. 2nd City was a bit of a panic land-grab, but gets me 3rd lux plus tradeable copies. 3rd city gives me 4th and 5th lux, and looks Prod heavy.

    - Did you find the Kris Swordsman's random promotion to be useful/interesting?
    Will have to wait and see.

    I think my opening moves have been bad, I mean really terrible, but the level of the game *should* allow me to catch up. Will see how it goes, and post in After Actions if I'm brave enough, but don't hold your breath. Domination is only usually a last resort for me, and usually only starts when I get huge tech lead and artillery. Will have to see what develops.
     
  11. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    I can understand defending the map you posted and even that not everything is for everyone. However, choosing to put a civ who's UA requires multiple land masses on this type of map is like turning ruins off when you give us the Shoshone, or turning Babraians off with Germany, or having no CS's with Siam, or using the sandstorm map with Brazil just so there are very few if any jungles for their UI. In other words, it seems that you went out of your way to remove the use of this civ's UA and to make the starting area as hard as possible for any civ.

    I can see doing these things on a Deity game where the top players need more of a challenge and most of us aren't even going to attempt it anyway. However, this is a King level game, which is the time of the month for those who aren't as good to have what is challenging, but not overwhelming for them. These settings for this civ, with this craptastic start coupled with a continent full of highly aggressive civs tips this game well past the point of what's overwhelming for the typical warlord/prince/king level player whom this half of the GoTM games was intended for.

    Frankly, I think you tailored this game for the top players who find deity easy instead of the the group it was meant for.
     
  12. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

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    I'm sure the creator believed continents was the right setting for this civ. Likely a misunderstanding of continents itself rather than to create a more difficult challenge.
     
  13. casualplayer

    casualplayer Warlord

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    Heh. This game may be a Jungle slog but it sure is funny.

    I moved my Settler NW for a Hilltop view, saw that it was about as good as it was going to get, and put down roots Turn 1. Coastal, Banana, Deer, 3 Spice, 1 Sugar-I guess we can work with this. If there's a Horse in one of those Grassland tiles we should be fine (nope.)

    I got one Ruin. One stinking rough map. One! So I'm playing with the Ruins off, essentially. I did get to see some other Ruins, then I got to meet a civ as they swooped in and poached them.

    I got great AI. Turn 10 Attila shows up and says "Let's get England!" Turn 10! I told him to cool his jets for 10 Turns but sure. London looked ripe for the picking. Napoleon was in psycho-Settler mode, hammering them out then running them right past a barb camp. Barbs took 3 of his Settlers! Which then became my Workers. Theodora was in turbo-religion mode, Pantheon Turn 15, Founded Turn 40, Enhanced and Reformation by Turn 80. Monasteries, Mosques and ..... Jesuit Education. If she would have taken Sacred Sites I would be buying her blue jeans by Turn 150. Meanwhile I will be lucky if I get a University up by Turn 130.

    I went single city NC then I started looking around for other spots to settle. I have Surabaya down at the wish-my-cap-was-here spot with the Hill/Mountain/2 Cow/Stone/Sheep/Spices/Marble. I'm stripping Napoleon of his Salty riches and then I am going to have to rein Attila in, because he's threatening to runaway, on King of all things.
     
  14. Marathoner

    Marathoner Warlord

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    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    Settled on hill to the NW. With poor production decided to forgo early CB rush. Rather open with GL rush. Plan to start warring in medieval era. Was friendly with all early on. Went with 2 city opening. Capital for food/cash. Second city to se for prod with sheep, 2 cows, stone, hills.

    - What were your initial priorities?
    Exploration, tried to get sacred path but failed by 2 turns. Got GL at turn 48, took philosophy, able to get nc around turn 85

    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    Pottery, writing for GL rush the ah trapping for camp (every hammer count with this opening). Then iron working then guilds to education

    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    Was basically friendly in early game. Allowed me to get early tech lead. Attila took London (what a terrible location for a sea power based civ - haha) around turn 75. Waited until I could build xbows then pumped out 4 plus a pike and kris and took London. Surprisingly I got no warmonger penalty for this. Guess everyone hates Attila. Now at turn 165. Building second army for northward push. Current army will swing south for Attila and France.

    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Open trad, liberty to free worker then finished trad.

    - Did you find the Kris Swordsman's random promotion to be useful/interesting?
    Interesting, then one I got is the double attack. Problem was getting iron, got thru trade until I took London.
     
  15. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    First session ended at 113.

    Settled on hill. Bought deer tile asap.. As soon as i hit 2 pop i started a settler.

    Capital : Scout-scout-settler-granary-caravan-2x archers-caravan
    2nd city : granary-archer

    Stole a worker from Attila to slows him down. Made peace some turns later. Then stole a worker from England. Stayed at war until cap down. Settled 2nd city on spice that i sold immediately. Maximized gold and rush bought 3 more archers for a total of 6.

    But Madrid DoWed me while i got some archers already. I repealed her easily but she plundered a food caravan. That's why there is a 2nd caravan in the BO from capital(no sailing yet). This one went for Mogadishu instead for insta ally(coupled with culture quest).

    I went into full Tradition and i teched Calendar-BW-Masonry to work luxs first. Then Writing and Construction(70). Started with Madrid then Attila's Court. With poor production and lot of cities the NC was pretty costly, almost 17 turns before completion. Finally made it around the turn 108. I continued pushing army to France. He was by far the strongest of them all, i stayed around and killed army when i decided to get Orleans before Paris to make it easier. But we signed peace instead in exchange of Orleans and Troyes(sold to Byzantines).

    Since that i have to wait i will bring back army to north and kill Byzantines and Spanish people and come back south later with Machinery much much later. I definitively need Astro and it will take a while before reaching it. I will have time to build more units and will have enough iron later to make sea attacks(hoping for that) to finish under a decent time.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    Edit : Played a bit more(turn 139) : Like i wanted to be, with lot of happiness to maintain growth. Went Exploration to get a free admiral asap and spot 2 last civs. France is next of course. Funny thing, i'm leading into a faith quest with a miserable 2 fpt, 11 turns left :). Got no pantheon yet!

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :
     
  16. Novalia

    Novalia Prince

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    Spoiler :
    i went back to finish off spain.. i just didnt like them sitting with two healthy cities.. in the meantime england DOWd me.. with no army...

    so while building road to england's second city just SE of cap i finished off spain.. kept barcelona and a third city just NE of london.. took the england city SE of cap and razed it.. while marching on london from two directions attila captured it.. so i declared on him, killed all of his units then took london.. genocide complete on byzantium, spain, and england..

    france also DOWd me sometime in there but they only have cap +1 city and they'd been substantially weakened earlier by attila.. its just a matter of turns before i finish them both off.. i could have been much more efficient with this map.

    while putting work boats in the water for my N city i noticed the borders of a moroccan city to the W reachable with optics only.. avoided contact temporarily until i can at least get a trireme in the water..

    no NC at all.. not really necessary imo.. most likely the last civ is on the landmass to the NW.. if not i'll have astro by the time i finish morocco.

    built pyramids with hammers and GW with liberty finisher.
    took another break on turn 148.
     
  17. BigChiefLizzy

    BigChiefLizzy Warlord

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    Probably a good idea, I built 6 total ended up with bad promotions on 4 of them (enemy blade, -20% HP in enemy territory on second and third. Not Good when going for a domination win.) Maybe safer to use pikemen?

    Moderator Action: A reminder, once you open the game save, please do not post in the announcement thread as unintentional spoilers may result. I moved this post to the Opening Action thread because you mentioned the result of your building Kris and give advice for others. This is a spoiler in my eyes.
     
  18. Shaleghi

    Shaleghi Chieftain

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    - How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    Like most i went NW on the hill. Yes jungle is slow but you get food for growth and hammers when you cut them down.

    - What were your initial priorities?
    Growth and peace... get iron and then war.


    - What tech path did you follow and why?
    Went for education and then war techs. I got plantation's from a ruin.. that was great.

    - How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    I decided to make friends with north and take out Attila.

    - What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Seem i am the only one that took honnor/libirty mix. Lets see if this helps me in the future.

    - Did you find the Kris Swordsman's random promotion to be useful/interesting?
    3 bad and 2 good. I use the bad ones for bait... let them get killed and take the cities. But I also think you should always get good ones and maybe lower that stats a bit.

    I was all peacefull and trying to grow ,, but with Honor that did not go fast. Constantinopal and Spain took all the space to the north and east. I made friends with them both. But i did get the 6 iron and marble to the south. With that great mountain range that protect me from france. So Attila took out London while france was spaming the south with cities. Then Attila came for me.
    I mange to fight him off and take London. then made pace... France had a city between my capital and london.. this was no good so i took it. Then i DoW with Attila again and took him out.
    Now i have lost friendship with Spain but i am good buddies with constantinople. France is on the back foot. but to get the capital is a long way. Spain is now looking very aggresive. The plan is now to have a stand off with france and take out Spain.. Get my army back up north. Spain might DoW on me soon any way.
    I am now half way in to medieval era. Time to rest , consolidate and then take out Spain.

    With a continets map, i can only see building other cities on the other continents much later in the game. Only if i need the happyniss.
     
  19. krc

    krc King

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    Spoiler :


    How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
    Continents with 6 of 8 civs on the starting land mass is certainly not ideal for Indonesia's UA. And the jungle start is disgusting. Made me go Liberty to quickly settle a second city in a better location.

    What were your initial priorities?
    Explore. Research the stuff needed to get luxuries hooked up. Figure out which civ to take out first.

    What tech path did you follow and why?
    Pottery, Mining, Archery, Bronze Working, Writing, Calendar, Masonry, Iron Working, Animal Husbandry, Sailing, Philosophy, Wheel, Construction, Optics, Mathematics, Currency, Trapping, Engineering.

    Headed early to bronze to be able to cut jungles and link spices. Met Attila on turn 12, so decided to push archery and iron working faster than usual to deal with the Huns.

    How did you decide your opening conquering plans?
    On turn 19, Attila asked me to join in a DoW on England. I asked for 10 turns, with the plan of (a) getting a worker or two and some experience points, (b) letting him take London and get the warmonger hate, (c) then turn on him and attack. This worked out perfectly. I attacked when he was at his relative weakest, immediately after taking London with losses. So I then captured London with no complaints from anyone. And captured Attila's Court (Turn 115) while France and Byzantium were also at war with Attila (and everyone around had denounced him). The hard part was that he built the Terracotta Army while this was going on....

    Since all my troops are in the south, plan to take out Napoleon next, then swing north and take Spain and backstab Byzantium.

    What Social Policies did you choose and why?
    Open Liberty, Republic, Collective Rule, Citizenship, Representation.

    I decided on Liberty mainly for the early settler, with the idea of getting a quick second city n a better location (especially one with iron to take advantage of the UU). Managed to settle Surabaya on a riverside hill between gold and iron, in the perfect position to move against Attila's flank after he took London.

    Did you find the Kris Swordsman's random promotion to be useful/interesting?
    So far, yes. Have built four (well, just finished a fifth) Kris swordsman, and they have one with Heroism, two with Sneak Attack, but one with Evil Spririts. The flank bonuses with the equivalent of a general certainly helped the attack.
     
  20. Shaleghi

    Shaleghi Chieftain

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    Played through renascence and one tech in to industrial. France build Notre dam one turn before me... ONE Turn that really hurt as i am having happiness trouble.

    Went up to take out Spain and France took Attila's court back in the south. Went back down to take it and Spain attack from the north. Went back up and France took Attila's court again. Domination was never my strong point. France and Spain got their special unit in the era and Civ's normally like to use them. I forgot about that and payed the price.

    Most of the world DoW on me even my old friend Theodora, I was even planning to marry her. The good thing is that I took her capital with some 5/6 wonders. Now Spain is on the back foot and i am going to get Notre dam !!...

    But I have always found that taking cities at this time of world history is not good. City defense is too high. So take a rest, solve the finances and happiness , tech to artillery and then make some fire in Paris.

    Money is also a big problem. they voted me out and i can not trade with any one. Most city states is at war with me. But with the honor policy i get cash for kills. and it is the only thing keeping me with a positive bank balance.

    Wasted load of hammers re-building trade ships/caravans.. and i am still loosing them.
     

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