TSG_212 After Action

VitkaCZE

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Jun 8, 2022
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When are you building Musician’s Guild? How many Musician’s you get with faith? What was Morocco’s culture at the end?
I build guilds basically as soon as they are available. I get plenty of musicians, but was unable to send them to Morocco due to closed borders. Now I have 146 turns remaining, although I led by tourism for many years, Morocco has finaly +97 tourism and I +62. Each of us approximately 20% cultural influence over each other.
 

rickyvaughn

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Jan 22, 2022
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It will take way too long to go through all the possible reasons for the problem, but I think you’re making your Mus Guild too soon. When a GMus is born, it is given 10x the current tourism of your empire and that number doesn’t change, so later GMus are much, much more powerful than earlier ones. Yes, in some instances it may be more beneficial to get a couple for Broadway, but most of the time not, imo.

This all assumes that you didn’t use Sacred Sites, which is prob the best choice on a Tiny land map on King.

What turn are you making 62 tour? Is that base tour or with boosts? How much culture does Mor have currently?
 

Bosskhazen

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Jul 22, 2022
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This is my first time playing a Gotm and it was a fun, slow, mostly peaceful game. Culture victory in 486 turns. Settled my corner of the map, fought off a ridiculous invasion from Venise, and slowly overwhelmed everyone with more and more tourism. Morocco was the last to be overtaken.
I replayed the game to try the Sacred Sites strategy for the first time. Peaceful cuture victory in 135 turns. Ended up with 8 cities and a big army to scare the AI.
 

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aafritz17

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...but was unable to send them to Morocco due to closed borders...
You take the musician to Morocco covered by a military unit. When you're next to a flat tile in their border, you declare war, step inside their border, and sing them to death.

If they are too far away, build a city near your musician, let it get to two population, then give it to Morocco. Maybe they'll trade it for open borders, but if not, give it to them for nothing, then see above. (The reason for two pop is so they can't raze it immediately. Yes, I have had that happen.)
 
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VitkaCZE

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Joined
Jun 8, 2022
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6
It will take way too long to go through all the possible reasons for the problem, but I think you’re making your Mus Guild too soon. When a GMus is born, it is given 10x the current tourism of your empire and that number doesn’t change, so later GMus are much, much more powerful than earlier ones. Yes, in some instances it may be more beneficial to get a couple for Broadway, but most of the time not, imo.

This all assumes that you didn’t use Sacred Sites, which is prob the best choice on a Tiny land map on King.

What turn are you making 62 tour? Is that base tour or with boosts? How much culture does Mor have currently?
You are right. Based on all I read since that time, the problem is with the Sacred Sites. Also your point about Mus Guild is interesting. I will replay it once more in few weeks and let you know :) Thank you!
 

billybgame

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Feb 10, 2005
Messages
570
I battled hard.....but lost to Venice somehow winning a Diplo victory in turn 606 I think...I just could never get Morroco going very much my way in tourism. Venice DoW on me 5 times...got Antwerp for free from them out of that. I got Hinduism and Pagodas and Mosques and Sacred Sites too...but just could not get Morocco going....they were still under 50% when the game ended.

I even took first very quick in both the World Fair and Int Games....others got nothing out of Worlds Fair and only Morocco passed the first step of Int Games.

Not sure what my errors were....did have to battle Venice's religion early on...his religion had hold of every single city besides Madrid early on....finally got rid of that nuisance and never had a religion issue anywhere. But never even got Dominant over Venice...think ended around 70%....in early AD, they were over 60, so that's saying something.

One issue was the -34% modifier as they both had differing ideologies.

I don't know....rarely do I play King....don't like being disadvantaged. But, thought had a fighting chance in this one....I was surprised when Venice won Diplo...guess the count got lowered enough after so many votes for it.
 

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zxcvbob

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I battled hard.....but lost to Venice somehow winning a Diplo victory in turn 606 I think...I just could never get Morroco going very much my way in tourism. Venice DoW on me 5 times...got Antwerp for free from them out of that. I got Hinduism and Pagodas and Mosques and Sacred Sites too...but just could not get Morocco going....they were still under 50% when the game ended.

I even took first very quick in both the World Fair and Int Games....others got nothing out of Worlds Fair and only Morocco passed the first step of Int Games.

Not sure what my errors were....did have to battle Venice's religion early on...his religion had hold of every single city besides Madrid early on....finally got rid of that nuisance and never had a religion issue anywhere. But never even got Dominant over Venice...think ended around 70%....in early AD, they were over 60, so that's saying something.

One issue was the -34% modifier as they both had differing ideologies.

I don't know....rarely do I play King....don't like being disadvantaged. But, thought had a fighting chance in this one....I was surprised when Venice won Diplo...guess the count got lowered enough after so many votes for it.
Did you have fun? Did you learn anything? :)

For Sacred Sites to work, you have to go at it hard and fast; in the early game nobody has much culture and there's almost no tourism available. So 20 tourism (4 cities with 2 religious buildings each, the Parthenon, and one great writer from the guild) might be enough if you get them quickly enough, but by the late medieval or early renaissance era the AI's start getting wonders and great writers and artists of their own and will start pulling away from your early gains, and you'll need to settle more cities. The people who are really good at SS will settle dozens of crappy little cities just as tightly as they can cram them together, lock the populations of most of them at about 3 or 4 to keep unhappiness manageable, and just keep building nothing but shrines, monuments, archers, and settlers -- and walls in your border cities because the AIs will hate you for having so many cities. (I have trouble doing that, but I got SS to work with 5 or 6 cities on this map. Other people just killed Morocco)
 

Rhodro

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Aug 7, 2012
Messages
14
Won at 225, forgot about sacred sites so this is a "normal" culture win with cultural wonders + art pieces.
Managed to find all the natural wonders for 500g. Actually surprised mongolia or morocco didn't find the one between them. I spent that money on settlers and workers, in total 4 cities. The 3 expo's were at the natural wonders.
Not a single war was fought, only mongolia vs city states, but i was always around with some units to block him from capturing, so he gave that up after threatening 2 CS.

Some notables:
Got great library, alahambra, temple of artemis, hanging gardens and some more wonders. Also Chichen Itza but im not even sure i got a golden age after i had that thing. I popped all artists for art.
Took great engineer from tower of pisa to pop the globe theater
Tradition -> aesthetics -> rationalism. Autocracy with futurism, only 1 great artist was born that triggered my win by influencing morocco.
The art pieces and theming boni i had was:
great library with 2 writings
sistine chapel with 2 great artist pieces
globe theater with 2 writings
Was constantly trying to run all the boni like trade route / shared religion / open borders. For a long time i had shared religion with all of the opponents until very late morocco and venice started spamming great prophets.

World Congress not significant, only 1 vote round and arts funding that i proposed was passed, a few turns before my win.
Found it quite fun this one. Think I only had 1 mistake were I bought a settler 1 turn too late.
 

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armcie

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Sep 20, 2021
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18
Replayed this to see how quickly I could do it. 145 sacred sites, which I see is below par. I can see a few places where I was slow (getting open borders and a trade route into morocco for example) and in retrospect, more settlers may be more useful than the faith wonders... I'm going to go again, while I hope for a new GOTM

Edit: turn 126 on the third attempt. Unlike my original playthrough, someone else has been managing to get to Gibraltar first.
 

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