TSL Earth Wishlist

[evonannoredars]

I believe it's been confirmed Civ 7 will have a TSL map, albeit not immediately on launch. Subsequently, I've been thinking about what I would consider an ideal TSL map, and how it could also work with some of the Civ 7 mechanics.

• European Overcrowding: This is something which I expect will likely be less of an issue in Civ 7, with a lower proportion of European civs than previously. However, it is possible that with future DLCs that proportion will increase (possibly more so in the exploration/modern ages, where the more obvious conterparts to modern european countries show up), and so it'd be useful if there were a system in place to prevent extreme overcrowding by influence which civs the AI can be.
• Civ 7 Mechanics: I'd assume TSL maps would also be compatible with advanced starts (although advanced start TSL hawai'i would be tough!), and that afroeurasia and the americas would be distant lands to each other - possibly with oceania as a third?
• Region Unlocks: It'd be neat if it were possible to become a different civ based on which territory you've settled in. This wouldn't likely open more options during the antiquity/exploration change unless you settled impressively far, but it'd be fun to be able change from a South American civ into an African one in the modern age after settling across the ocean during the exploration age.
• Slight Randomisation: Unrelated to Civ 7 mechanics, I wasn't a fan of always having all the same resources and wonders in the same locations in Civ 6. It allowed for fun planning ahead at times, but I'd enjoy it if there were a TSL map with slightly randomised features - still in the appropriate places, but variability in if they'll be the game or not. A more script-driven Earth map generation may also open possibilities for changing global temperatures/rainfall/etc?
• TSL-Specific Narrative Events: What it says on the tin - extra narrative events connected to geographical locations, referencing historical events.

 

[Krikkit1]

I believe it's been confirmed Civ 7 will have a TSL map, albeit not immediately on launch. Subsequently, I've been thinking about what I would consider an ideal TSL map, and how it could also work with some of the Civ 7 mechanics.

• European Overcrowding: This is something which I expect will likely be less of an issue in Civ 7, with a lower proportion of European civs than previously. However, it is possible that with future DLCs that proportion will increase (possibly more so in the exploration/modern ages, where the more obvious conterparts to modern european countries show up), and so it'd be useful if there were a system in place to prevent extreme overcrowding by influence which civs the AI can be.
• Civ 7 Mechanics: I'd assume TSL maps would also be compatible with advanced starts (although advanced start TSL hawai'i would be tough!), and that afroeurasia and the americas would be distant lands to each other - possibly with oceania as a third?
• Region Unlocks: It'd be neat if it were possible to become a different civ based on which territory you've settled in. This wouldn't likely open more options during the antiquity/exploration change unless you settled impressively far, but it'd be fun to be able change from a South American civ into an African one in the modern age after settling across the ocean during the exploration age.
• Slight Randomisation: Unrelated to Civ 7 mechanics, I wasn't a fan of always having all the same resources and wonders in the same locations in Civ 6. It allowed for fun planning ahead at times, but I'd enjoy it if there were a TSL map with slightly randomised features - still in the appropriate places, but variability in if they'll be the game or not. A more script-driven Earth map generation may also open possibilities for changing global temperatures/rainfall/etc?
• TSL-Specific Narrative Events: What it says on the tin - extra narrative events connected to geographical locations, referencing historical events.

All sound good., particularly Euro Overcrowding.

I'd like to see a Few options
1. True Start Location v. True Unlock Location (ie can you unlock a civ if and only if you have settled close enough to their historical IRL territory)
2. Randomize Resources/Natural Wonders

 

[pokiehl]

I don't really care for TSL at all, but I'm glad that it was confirmed for Civ 7 since I know a lot of folks love to play that way.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

TSL Hawaii Advanced Start might not be too bad. Sure, you'll probably only get one city to start, but that means you can feel free to pump legacy points into whatever else meets your fancy. Embarkation tech is also pretty early on, so you'll be getting Settlers out quite a bit sooner than Shipbuilding in VI. I think it would be pretty fun and unique, all things considered.

 

[chaosprophet]

European Overcrowding: This is something which I expect will likely be less of an issue in Civ 7, with a lower proportion of European civs than previously. However, it is possible that with future DLCs that proportion will increase (possibly more so in the exploration/modern ages, where the more obvious conterparts to modern european countries show up), and so it'd be useful if there were a system in place to prevent extreme overcrowding by influence which civs the AI can be.

Even if there is TSL, as the name implies it would be about start location. This means that, regardless if you pick a full game or an age limited game, the player can pick which civs will be on that game to avoid overcrowding, or risk it if left at random as would be with the TSL in other civilizations. If you play more than one age game, maybe you get more Europeans civs depending on the choices on age progression, but it isn't like the civs will change location on transition depending on the civ they turned out. Which is similar with TSL in other games where only guaranteed is the starting location, the rest will depend on how the games flows.

 

[evonannoredars]

Even if there is TSL, as the name implies it would be about start location. This means that, regardless if you pick a full game or an age limited game, the player can pick which civs will be on that game to avoid overcrowding, or risk it if left at random as would be with the TSL in other civilizations. If you play more than one age game, maybe you get more Europeans civs depending on the choices on age progression, but it isn't like the civs will change location on transition depending on the civ they turned out. Which is similar with TSL in other games where only guaranteed is the starting location, the rest will depend on how the games flows.

Ah to clarify I meant a solution could be for the game to limit which civs an AI can be during game generation - ie if there's three civs in too close proximity already it prevents any more from being chosen by the AI, or forces a civ to reroll if the spawns would be too badly crowded.

 

[evonannoredars]

TSL Hawaii Advanced Start might not be too bad. Sure, you'll probably only get one city to start, but that means you can feel free to pump legacy points into whatever else meets your fancy. Embarkation tech is also pretty early on, so you'll be getting Settlers out quite a bit sooner than Shipbuilding in VI. I think it would be pretty fun and unique, all things considered.

True, forgot you'd be able to give yourself that boost. Does sound fun when you put it like that!

 

[Krikkit1]

TSL Hawaii Advanced Start might not be too bad. Sure, you'll probably only get one city to start, but that means you can feel free to pump legacy points into whatever else meets your fancy. Embarkation tech is also pretty early on, so you'll be getting Settlers out quite a bit sooner than Shipbuilding in VI. I think it would be pretty fun and unique, all things considered.

well there is a problem, your settlers can Cross fairly early, but I believe they still lose hp moving through that open ocean... and an even mildly accurate Hawaii TSL might not be able to reach any other Pacific islands until they can cross ocean without losing strength (which is later in the tree).... they May have to use their healing missionary to reach some of the south pacific.. depending on how the map goes.

I could see Hawaii being large enough to accommodate 2 settlements, one at each end (depending on the overall map size)... but a larger overall map means harder ability to cross to the South Pacific (or Aleutians)

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I'm not a TSL player because of the overcrowding and undercrowing. If there was a distorted map that fix that it would make more interested.

Region Unlocks: It'd be neat if it were possible to become a different civ based on which territory you've settled in. This wouldn't likely open more options during the antiquity/exploration change unless you settled impressively far, but it'd be fun to be able change from a South American civ into an African one in the modern age after settling across the ocean during the exploration age.

If continent's have names the names like in civ 6, a civs could be associated with a name. I'd guess the hard part is the map generation to combine the start bias. The condition of 'city on a continent X' doesn't seem like it would be that challenging.

 

[Glassmage]

I worked really hard on the Civ5 TSL modpack so I hope Civ7 delivers....

 

[I was NC]

Most of the issues discussed can be addressed by allowing players to choose which civs are in. What seems to me like the real problems for TSL are:
*limited Antiquity options, and not allowing Exploration ones at the start, means too few for a Huge map, and
*how to handle forced switching when the areas covered by the subsequent civs are unavailable or not found.

I'd very much like to be wrong! Please explain why the two main new aspects of VII are not fatal to a legit TSL experience. My sincere hope is to play this new installment, which otherwise seems great, the same way I've done since 1998.

 

[Krikkit1]

Most of the issues discussed can be addressed by allowing players to choose which civs are in. What seems to me like the real problems for TSL are:
*limited Antiquity options, and not allowing Exploration ones at the start, means too few for a Huge map, and
*how to handle forced switching when the areas covered by the subsequent civs are unavailable or not found.

I'd very much like to be wrong! Please explain why the two main new aspects of VII are not fatal to a legit TSL experience. My sincere hope is to play this new installment, which otherwise seems great, the same way I've done since 1998.

What I would do for “TSL unlocks” is you unlock the civ if
1. you have a city in their historic territory
or
2. ?your capital? or one of your cities is closer to their capital than one of the other civs capitals of that age

Practically, I think dividing the world into 15-20 “continents” each one unlocks at least one civ if you have a city there

 

[I was NC]

What I would do for “TSL unlocks” is...

just not mandate civ switching. Problem solved. (Understood it might create others though.)

That said, those two options do seem like potentially workable approaches.

 

[Zaarin]

This means that, regardless if you pick a full game or an age limited game, the player can pick which civs will be on that game to avoid overcrowding

I don't generally find TSL interesting--if I want that kind of game, I'll play CK3--but I did got a mild level of enjoyment out of a couple TSL games in Civ6 where I just stuffed in all the Balkan and Balkan-adjacent civs and leaders into the game while I enjoyed the peace in East Asia or the Americas.

 

[Evie]

Ah, classic move that.

Though sometime I would allow the Inca to start with me in the Americas, and then make sure to race a scout down to Panama before they could move a settler north of it.

 

[Xandinho]

I loved playing as Australia, completely isolated and far from the chaos happening on other continents. It was common for me to include the Aztecs in the game and later discover that they had taken almost all of the Americas. I didn’t play TSL often, but it’s undeniable that it has its charm.

 

[Nic@Melbourne]

Civ VI - TSL is ruined a little fore some civs by districts and little land (Japan/England/Aztec/Maya)

Civ VII - might be ok for age based maps once a few expansions are out. Eurasia- Nrth Africa map would play ok now

 

[evonannoredars]

What I would do for “TSL unlocks” is you unlock the civ if
1. you have a city in their historic territory
or
2. ?your capital? or one of your cities is closer to their capital than one of the other civs capitals of that age

Practically, I think dividing the world into 15-20 “continents” each one unlocks at least one civ if you have a city there

Yeah the way I envisioned it working was similar, that Exploration/Modern civs have an area of tiles assigned as their 'historical spread', having a minimum number or percentage (one of the two, or both and whichever is higher?) of those tiles within your empire unlocks that civ.

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

I barely played any standard TSL maps in Civ VI because they were way too small. Gedemon's YnAMP made all the difference. There was even the ability to create newly-shaped landmasses with the Terra settings, but retain civ and CS starting spots, as well as natural wonder spots. It was amazing. There were also pretty neat TSL maps of Europe and the Mediterranean, and even one where the Med was inside North America - very clever!

Other than random watery maps with Maori, I played the most games using YnAMP and playing as an East Asian civ. Establish a base, then expand towards Australia, meeting Nan Madol and Auckland. A sandbox players dream, especially if one played Japan. I'm afraid that will be gone now with 7 without heavy modding.

I'm trying to imagine how limited TSL could be carried out in 7 without drastically altering the Ages system... Spawn in Europe and Africa, expand to Asia and the Americas in the 2nd Age? You could actually create a coast in the 1st Age roughly with the Red Sea or Persian Gulf, up through the Black or Caspian Sea up to the pole, that miraculously heals up to reveal the rest of Asia for the 2nd Age...? And reversed - start in Asia, reveal Europe, Africa, and the Americas? OR start in the Americas, and reveal the rest in the 2nd age? OK, I just solved it. ;-)

 

[Gedemon]

If we can mod all the prerequisites (I'm reasonably optimistic, but not 100% confident), I do plan to make a civ7 version of YnAMP with regional unlock, like I did for HK.