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[TSL] ZipWorld v.0.1. (59 x 98) -- Now With Less Ocean & Tundra ™

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Custom maps' started by Greizer85, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,210
    EDIT: Version 1 removed after 265 downloads. What is attached now is the final version of this map; there won't be any more updates from me, barring significant unforeseen issues. My map will likely be added to Gedemon's YnAEMP mod sometime in the future, allowing you to pick the civs you want for each game at your leisure (among others things). As you wait, however (and if Gedemon chooses to update his mod in the first place), feel free to play on the finished map already. You may still alter the starting locations manually, if you wish; in the zip are included screenshots which show the correct locations for all the civs. Happy games! :)

    EDIT2: It won't let me attach the file, since I already attached it to the YnAEMP thread... I wonder which idiot cooked up this hare-brained policy? Anyway here is the link to that post, so just download it from there:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13288082&postcount=1589

    --Greizer85

    Spoiler :
    More pics. (Map also available on the Steam Workshop.)

    [Disregard the problems discussed below; they should be sorted out now. Do report any problems with the map(s) though!]


    'Zip', n. A short sharp whizzing sound, as of a passing bullet. ~ Dictionary.com (this is the sound of my map loading :D)

    "What is drama but life with the dull bits cut out?" ~ Alfred Hitchcock (Civ V tech quote)


    On this map, Hitchcock's zippety-zap philosophy is surgically applied to the world's oceans and tundra, i.e. they have been cut out for the most part. Now you can actually run the map without a supercomputer, and you have time to use your navy before it goes obsolete! Much less useless AI cities, too; as we all know the AI loves to settle in the tundra. (For the same reason -- AI settlement idiocy -- there are no one-tile islands on the map.)

    The overall design philosophy of the map follows roughly the same lines. Gameplay takes priority over realism in every respect; however I did my best to keep landforms recognizable and terrain as realistic as I could. I think my best is very good indeed (and the ~500 hours I spent making the map certainly helped), but you be the judge and feedback is much appreciated! No map is perfect but I aim to get as close to it as possible.


    A 'few' things of note about the map:

    1) General Info

    Spoiler :
    1.0.

    The map dimensions are 59 x 98 = 5,782 tiles; larger than a Standard map (52x80 = 4,160), but smaller than a Large map (64x104 = 6,656) by a fair margin. This should ensure adequate performance on most current computers. I suggest turning off animations and/or ending turn in Strategic View in the late game should you experience late-game slowdown; these tricks have been known to help with it for some time now.

    1.1.

    The game settings (in all versions) are as follows:

    Game Speed = Standard
    Quick Movement = On
    Quick Battles = On
    Start Era = Ancient

    If you wish to modify the settings, just open the map in World Builder and click 'Scenario Properties'. Note that although you can click on the Game Speed button within the game, it won't have any actual effect! The only way to change Game Speed is to edit the map in WB. You can blame Firaxis for this bug... Nothing I can do about it, unfortunately.

    1.2.

    There are 5 versions of the map included. The first 3 have three different mixes of 22 civs (the max number of civs allowed without turning the map into a mod); the 'Colonial' version has no civs in the Americas, only City States; and finally the 'Imperial' version has lots of room for certain civs to spawn runaway superpowers (in order to provide a challenge in the late game). The rest are cramped together and at a disadvantage; you may choose to play as an underdog or as an Imperial power, whichever you prefer.

    The different versions are necessary because Civ V does not allow you to choose the wanted civs individually in the game setup phase (barring modding, which I won't do for now). Blame Firaxis for the inconvenience (both yours and mine).

    1.3.

    The civs on the various maps are as follows:

    Spoiler :
    Basic A Basic B Basic C Imperial Colonial
    America Austria America America (Empire) Arabia
    Arabia Babylon Assyria Brazil (Empire) Babylon
    Aztec Brazil Aztec China (Empire) China
    Brazil China Brazil Persia (Empire) Egypt
    Byzantium Egypt Carthage Polynesia (Empire) English
    China Ethiopia Celts Russia (Empire) Ethiopia
    Egypt Greece China Zulu (Empire) Germany
    England Inca Egypt India
    Ethiopia India France Spain Indonesia
    France Indonesia Inca Austria Japan
    Germany Iroquois India Byzantium Korea
    Inca Maya Indonesia Carthage Morocco
    India Morocco Korea Celts Ottomans
    Indonesia Netherlands Ottomans English Portugal
    Japan Polynesia Poland France Russia
    Mongols Rome Polynesia Germany Siam
    Persia Russia Russia Greece Songhai
    Portugal Shoshone Shoshone Morocco Spain
    Russia Siam Songhai Poland The Huns
    Shoshone Spain The Huns Portugal The Netherlands
    Songhai The Huns Venice Rome Venice
    Zulu Zulu Zulu The Netherlands Zulu


    (NOTE for the Colonial version: For once the New World is truly worth colonizing! Trust me, you won't be disappointed!)


    1.4.

    Civs not on the map in any version:

    Sweden (Mea maxima culpa but it cannot be helped. Those City States are needed and even two extra hexes to the north would vastly expand the Russian tundra.)

    Danes (Again too cramped - and let's face it, who would even want to play as them? If Firaxis revamps them, then I may think of a way to include them.)

    1.5.

    There are 25 City States on the map (5 of each type), in all versions except the Colonial one (26).

    1.5.1.

    The City States are as follows:

    Spoiler :
    Basic versions / Imperial:

    Asia:

    Lhasa (Religious) Marble, Gems
    Almaty (Militaristic) Salt, Silver
    Kyzyl (Cultured) Salt, Silk
    Singapore (Mercantile) Pearls, Sugar
    Manila (Maritime) Crabs, Dyes
    Sukotra [Jerusalem] (Religious) Pearls, Incense
    Wellington (Maritime) Whales, Crabs
    Aborigines* [Hanoi] (Militaristic) Salt, Copper

    Americas:

    Buenos Aires (Cultured) Whales, Truffles
    Panama City (Maritime) Pearls, Crabs
    Cabo San Lucas (Religious) Salt, Pearls
    Trinidad [Colombo] (Mercantile) Sugar, Cotton
    Iqaluit [Sidon] (Militaristic) Salt, Silver
    Nunavut [Bogota] (Cultured) Furs, Crabs

    Europe:

    Stockholm [Belgrade] (Militaristic) Crabs, Dyes
    Oslo [Bratislava] (Cultured) Whales, Gold
    Sardinia/Vatican [Vatican City] (Religious) Dyes, Crabs
    Madeira [Tyre] (Mercantile) Spices, Whales
    Benghazi [Byblos] (Maritime) Salt, Pearls

    Africa:

    M'Banza Kongo (Militaristic) Salt, Copper
    Antanarivo (Mercantile) Sugar, Citrus
    Cape Town (Maritime) Wine, Gold
    Zanzibar (Mercantile) Spices, Pearls
    Mauritius [Monaco] (Cultured) Cotton, Pearls
    Ife/Bioko (Religious) Sugar, Pearls

    (5 of each type.)

    (* Although a 'city state' is the very antithesis to their way of life, the Aborigines represent trade with the vast tribal areas of Australia. And take up a useless spot of land that would be a blight on the landscape otherwise. :p)

    Colonial version:

    Asia:

    Lhasa (Religious) Marble, Gems
    Almaty (Militaristic) Salt, Silver
    Singapore (Mercantile) Pearls, Sugar
    Manila (Maritime) Crabs, Dyes
    Aborigines [Hanoi] (Militaristic) Salt, Copper
    Honolulu [Ur] (Maritime) Pearls, Crabs, Whales

    Americas:

    Buenos Aires (Cultured) Whales, Truffles
    Panama City (Maritime) Pearls, Crabs
    Trinidad [Colombo] (Mercantile) Sugar, Cotton
    Iqaluit [Sidon] (Militaristic) Salt, Silver
    Nunavut [Bogota] (Cultured) Furs, Crabs

    Onondaga [Byblos] (Maritime)
    Rio de Janeiro [Wellington] (Maritime)
    Tenochtitlan [Jerusalem] (Religious)
    Cahokia [Wittenberg] (Religious)
    Cuzco [Monaco] (Cultural)
    Palenque [Kyzyl] (Cultural)
    Moson Kahni [M'Banza Kongo] (Militaristic)

    (I'm not going to list all their resources... Rest assured there are many!)

    Europe:

    Stockholm [Belgrade] (Militaristic) Crabs, Dyes
    Oslo [Bratislava] (Cultured) Whales, Gold
    Sardinia/Vatican [Vatican City] (Religious) Dyes, Crabs
    Madeira [Tyre] (Mercantile) Spices, Whales

    Africa:

    Antanarivo (Mercantile) Sugar, Citrus
    Cape Town (Maritime) Wine, Gold
    Zanzibar (Mercantile) Spices, Pearls
    Ife/Bioko (Religious) Sugar, Pearls

    (5 every other type, 6 Maritimes.)


    2) Terrain Inaccuracies

    (Prepare for a looong list... This is mostly academic and ruins a few surprises, so only read if you are a fellow map-maker, or otherwise obsessed person!)

    Spoiler :
    Much to my chagrin, despite my best efforts quite a few sacrifices had to be made in order to realize my vision for the map. In no particular order, these are the following (and dozens I doubtlessly forget):

    2.0.

    As stated in the very beginning, the oceans of the world are gone for the most part. The tedium of moving a large army or fleet over the ocean on large maps is astounding in Civ V (imo). While that is really the fault of Firaxis, I'm amazed that only one other world map maker had thought of my solution so far.

    2.1.

    South America is cut off somewhere around Buenos Aires. Had to be done to cut the map down to size, but it looks very ugly indeed. Sorry.

    2.2.

    To compensate for the loss of navigability around the tip of S. America, the Panama Channel is open water on this map. Gotta love it when one ugly flaw leads directly to another. I could have made the 'stump' of S. America navigable instead, but I judged that simply too weird and unimmersive. Feel free to convince me otherwise if you think you should.

    2.3.

    Similarly to South America, Canada and Eurasia lack quite a bit of territory. This had to be done in order to keep the map size down. In Canada and Russia this mostly helps as it clears out useless tundra, but the loss of Sweden and the northern bit of England are annoying indeed. As well, I like to found Murmansk and Arkangelsk on world maps. Alas there is no feasible solution as of this moment.

    2.4.

    Although I applied all the cramming-related knowledge I had from my days as a uni student and a warehouse worker, Sicily, Gotland, and quite a few other islands are nowhere to be found on the map. The issue: space, as usual. I will just have to hope that no Godfathers play on this map. :D

    2.5.

    A few real-life mountains are hills or hills are mountains where appropriate. E.g. the passage from China to India or vice versa would be next to impossible without some mountains being turned into hills. A glaring case of gameplay over realism; on many maps there are impregnable chokepoints in mountainous areas that can't be cleared without crippling losses before Artillery. While I think this is a flaw of the game in its current state, I have taken every measure to ensure that most places are conquerable with reasonable effort. Not *easy* to conquer necessarily, but doable.

    2.6.

    The amount of rivers has been toned down a bit in large and easily settleable areas. This is both to ease movement and conquest and to make Europe have an economic edge with its many river tiles. I must say it's a pity that rivers currently only benefit land trade routes; hopefully Firaxis will reconsider this decision at some point, as nearly all the cities in Europe are coastal, rendering the benefit questionable at present. At least all European cities can have Gardens and Water Mills.

    2.7.

    The coasts on the map are two tiles wide wherever possible (Americas cannot be reached before Astronomy, which means some coasts had to be 1 tile wide only). This is simply in order for early ships to be able to pass each other. Normally with 1-tile wide coasts, if there are two AI ships in a row and your ship has no extra sight, it is impossible to pass the two ships even if you have enough movements points. Highly annoying, hence very unlikely on my map. :) If you do encounter four ships in a tight cluster, preventing passage, it is likely that they will disperse in a single turn, whereas with a 1-tile wide coast you might never get through.

    2.8.

    Berlin is located on the coast. This is to make them able to use the new Hanse UB which was added in the Fall Patch. There is no room for City States on the mainland and Oslo and Stockholm are coastal, so Berlin must be, too. You might argue that one could found Hamburg or Königsberg to take care of one's trading needs, but I like playing as Germany and their capital would be too lackluster if it were to be one tile away from the coast. Sue me, I've got Bismarck as my lawyer. ;)

    2.9.

    There are several inaccessible Atolls on the map. They're generally in areas where I thought it inappropriate to make a one-tile island (and I wanted to avoid those because the AI loves to settle there), yet I didn't want to leave the spot empty either. Consider them flavor/embellishment. I rather like the Atoll graphic, although I tend to play mostly in Strategic View these days.

    2.10.

    All islands that are one-tile sized irl have three tiles on the map. This is to provide space for landing in the event of attack, and also to make the isles more useful (again the AI loves to settle on them).

    2.11.

    The tropical islands in the Pacific have Grassland Jungles on them. Would you like a coconut, sir? I knew you would; I like them too. As well as the fact that these islands are now a bit less useless than before.

    2.12.

    All the world's lakes have plenty of fish in them. Lake tiles are some of the most useless tiles in the game; this gives them a nice 50 % buff, although it's too bad you cannot make Work Boats into lakes. This indirectly buffs Japan as they can make the boats with their Samurais; however there are next to no lakes in their starting area.

    2.13.

    Speaking of lakes, there are three near the Aztec capital that are wildly out of scale. I wanted to give Monty some way to use his special building, and saw some other map maker use this trick. Thank you for the nice idea, whoever you are (sorry but I forgot which map it was).

    2.14.

    Similarly, I wanted to give the Incas a leg up, so their starting area is anything but geographically accurate. Instead of the normal 'huge solid block of mountains' solution, I went for a 'central hill plateau' concept that ensures you can spam Terrace Farms to your heart's content. Great for flavor, but it may need a nerf as the amount of possible farms may be too big. Only play-testing will reveal this, so, be my guest and play as the mighty Incas!

    2.15.

    The amount of Fish and Atolls on the map may make Japan overpowered due to their new cultural powers. However I won't nerf the amount of Atolls unless I absolutely have to, as 1) Japan has spent enough time as an underdog, and 2) more importantly, removing the Atolls would nerf the seas too much for any other civ to bother with settlement. It's touch-and-go as it is, even with the humoungous amount of Atolls and the cocos-jungles.

    2.16.

    Europe is huge, duh. Took me long enough to remember it... :lol: No rationale is needed if you've ever played on a non-megahuge world map. It’s still too small, especially the British Isles; but what can you do about it (other than redo the whole map, which I won’t, hopefully, ever :crazyeye::twitch: )?

    2.17.

    The rivers on the map might still be a tad too many. Thing is, it took me 50 hours to place and then re-re-re-re-place them (and the system for this is horrible, clouding your vision at the crucial moments!), so I simply hadn't the heart to delete too many of them. Do report how your conquests go; if they're too dire, I'll tone down the amount of rivers.

    2.18.

    There are free Moais on Easter Island and a Kasbah near Alamut in the Middle East (google it if you haven't heard about it!). What can I say, I like flavor, ahem. Also, on the Colonial map there are some surprises in the New World and even in the Pacific Ocean (no peeking!^^)... You may want to bring your Archeologist, but beware what artifacts you take with you to your museums. The birds go tekeli-li! over that island... :eek:

    2.19.

    The vegetative zones of the world are partly of questionable accuracy, especially in Africa. It’s very hard to do them when every map book has drastically different data. If you live in the desert and I have it as plains on my map, feel free to chime in; in fact I insist upon it!

    2.20.

    There are next to no resources in the Sahara. I didn’t want to encourage settlement there, but it may be a bit too barren right now.

    --- Etc etc... I could spend a week listing all the hiccups and not be done with it! I can't actually play on my map because all I can see is glaring errors everywhere. :lol:



    3) Political Inaccuracies and City State Placement Rationale

    Spoiler :
    3.0.

    As stated before, there are 25 City States on the map (5 of each type), in all versions except the Colonial one (26), so you may have to fight for them (as it should be, imo). The map is very cramped as it is and I dislike City States taking up prime city spots, so I didn't include more. This also means that CSs are mostly 'tucked away' in remote and/or inhospitable regions of the map (except on the Colonization map, where they occupy prime territory in the Americas). Imo it's better than to let the AI settle in the barren wastes and cripple itself. It is already hard enough to move on a world map due to the numerous rivers and mountain ranges; City States make many world maps almost unnavigable in many areas. On my map this won't be a problem.

    It helps with the worker steal exploit, too, to have most CSs on small islands. This way you will need Optics to capture their worker, at which point the benefit is much less pronounced than in the very beginning. Some CSs are located inland and their workers are readily snatchable (Almaty, Kyzyl, Benghazi, M'Banza Kongo, Singapore, Nunavut, Buenos Aires), but I urge you to refrain as it's a really cheesy tactic. At least with most civs you won't have the option.

    An annoying issue that cropped up concerns the naming of the City States. I guess I'd have to make the map into a mod to be able to rename City States properly. You can do it in WB (and I did for the Americas in the Colonial version), but there is a grave problem: the new name only applies to the CS *on the map*. All their dialogues keep using the default name, leading to mucho confusion.

    If someone can mod the map to rename the appropriate CSs, I'd be most grateful; as it is now, many CSs are 'represented' by the closest geographically extant City State in the game (or just a random one when I couldn’t be bothered), which in many cases isn't pretty and never makes much sense. Regardless, I thought it to be a lesser evil to have e.g. Jerusalem in the Indian Ocean than have players not finding it where it's supposed to be.

    3.1.

    Other ‘political’ inaccuracies (depending on p.o.v.) include the placement of Berlin on the coast (mentioned earlier in the Terrain portion), and the placement of Madrid on the coast in the Colonial version. This was done to facilitate AI colonization of the New World as Spain, as well as to give Portugal breathing room, since it too is included on that map. Feel free to rename Madrid to Navarre if playing as Spain.


    4) Resource Inaccuracies and Rationale for Resource Placement

    Spoiler :
    4.0.

    As with everything, the accuracy of resource placement took a backseat to gameplay considerations. There are Spices in Odessa (needed 1 more unique lux in Russia), Horses in America (give Comanche Riders a chance!), etc. In a game where Pocatello lives for 4,000 years, I feel it's not too much of a stretch to let him ride a Horse without buying it.

    4.1.

    There are c. 18 copies of every Luxury available on the map (excluding Jewelry and Porcelain, plus Indonesia's unique luxes), with minor variations*. I may lessen this amount based on playtesting; but I don't want the map too barren. Nothing frustrates me more than swathes of empty land not worth settling on a TSL world map. Ideally you should have to go to war to get enough luxuries, or rely on City States of trade for them; but for now I'm too tired of editing the map so we'll go with these resources and see if they're too much or not. Each CS currently has 2 luxuries, and very few strategics; I may choose to move more resources to City States in the future.

    (* Salt is a special case in that most Salts are located in Desert; the few Plains or Grassland Salts are there to boost otherwise poor starting locations (Shoshone, Germany, Netherlands). Marble is special, too, in that it's placed under many capitals to make up for lack or production/adjacent mountain/river/etc.)

    4.2.

    With strategic resources I was perhaps a bit more stingy; Oil in particular might be hard to come by for some civs. After a few play-throughs you will know where it is, so you can concentrate on getting it in time. I may move some oil around so you can get it from City States; right now there's only one CS that I can recall you can buy Oil from. As always, report back with your feelings on the balance.

    4.3.

    I may add luxuries like Cocoa, Coffee, Tobacco etc on the map in the future, as I look into modding the map. However don't count on me adding them because the process is very long and tedious. I prefer drawing the map outlines and placing mountains etc; river placement delayed the map by at least a month and resource placement/balance likely by 4-6 months. It'd be better if I had an assistant with the next map who could do the resources. :)

    4.4.

    NOTE: your feedback is almost obligatory on this part! If you refuse to give feedback on the resource balance, I may just have to slap you and confiscate your cookies. Grr. (Yes, it's that serious!) :D

    NOTE #2: Feel free to improve the resource balance on the existing map(s) and re-post your own version(s); if anything I'd be grateful for it.


    5) About Multiplayer

    Spoiler :
    While I haven't tested it (I never play multiplayer), the balanced starting locations mean that the map should work very well in multi. Feel free to report on your games and suggest improvements in this regard; I will implement them as long as there's no adverse effect on the single player experience.

    It is a reasonable speculation that colonizing Australia may be a winning bet in multiplayer, due to the two good Natural Wonders there and the relatively safe environment (buffer of distance and sea from other players). I already put Barbarians there, but if they're not enough, consider filling Australia with mountains to achieve balanced play. It's not pretty but hey, it works.


    6) Speed and Prospect of Updates for the Map

    Spoiler :
    6.0.

    My interest in Civ V map making comes and goes. Since I just finished making the map (a fairly herculean effort), I will take a small break from map making (other than emergency updates). This could mean a week or a month or a year -- whatever I feel like. However, the aim is to continue making updates for the map based on my own ideas and more importantly your (hopefully) generous feedback. The more you complain, the better the map! :lol: Have no care for politeness; if you think my map totally sucks, please say so -- but take care to also provide reasons.

    6.1.

    As for how long updates will likely be provided -- for a year at least, or until Civ VI comes out. :p Of course real life issues may intervene or I may lose interest altogether. Your feedback should help me stay motivated for updates, so again the more the merrier! ;)


    7) Future Maps From Me?

    Spoiler :
    7.0.

    I've completed the landform of a 'political map of Finland'; it's basically Finland with the neighboring countries cut out (filled with Mountains). The resources remain to be done (surprise surprise); the problem is mostly in the diversity. I'd rather not add Silk or Spices in Finland... I tried to solve this by giving City States the 'exotic' luxuries as 'imports', but it's not ideal in my mind. Other than that there's the fact that the game's default civs totally kill immersion on this map. I hate playing TSL maps with the *right* civs in the wrong places, and when you have to use wildly inaccurate civs as well, it just adds to the problem.

    7.0.1.

    One possible solution is to mod in civs to replace the default ones. Civs based on the ancient 'tribes' of Finland (Häme, Karjala, etc.) would be very cool for flavor; which tribe will unite Finland and lord over it? Whose dialect shall be printed in the history books (in which every other dialect will be shunned as unnatural, naturally ;))? I'd imagine a multiplayer game with actual Finns as the players might be many a player's ultimate Civ experience. Why not foreigner's, too, if the map is fun and balanced enough.

    7.0.2.

    The other option is to add the Russian territories and make the map into a WW scenario (Winter War or Continuation War). This would require only one modded civ (Finland, duh), although ofc special units and techs would be nice. I would need much help doing either mod, as I know almost nothing about modding and have little interest in learning it. I could give ideas but implementing them beyond very basic things would be left to others. It's worth doing though as the amount of detail on the map is very good (as good as on my world map, ahem). If you'd like to make either kind of mod (or any kind) without me with any of my maps, feel free to appropriate them for that purpose. Credit for me would be nice of course, but you're even free to steal them if the mod is good enough. :lol:

    7.1.

    Other than updating my world map and finishing the Finland map, I aim to make a Europe map eventually. None of the available ones satisfy me, although a few come pretty close. The map would be Standard size (my only hitch with a few good Europe maps: too big with a huge empty Russia), and accurate as they come, natch. However considering that Civ V is now quite an old game and I have my other maps to look after (What? Some people have kids, I make maps instead! It's at least as much trouble! :lol:), I might opt to postpone this map for Civ VI. We'll see how it goes. Making maps for Civ V is to me more fun than playing it, so we might just see such a map yet.


    8) TL;DR:

    8.1.

    The map = 5 x Awesome! :D

    8.2.

    Please report on the following, if you have time:

    --- Resource balance (strategic, luxuries, food/production)

    --- Amount of rivers outside of Europe (how hard is it to do combat?)

    --- Balance of starting locations / natural expansion areas

    --- Too much Atolls for Japan?

    --- Etc; anything you can think of! Note that I won't mod the civs, units, techs etc; I will only modify the map based on your feedback! You are free to do other modifications, but for now don’t expect me to help with that.

    Without further ado (and this has certainly been enough), good luck and have fun playing on the map! :cool::goodjob:

    --- Greizer85
     
  2. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,210
    URGENT: I need step-by-step instructions on how to make the map pack into a mod and properly upload it on Steam Workshop! I got it there and the 'mod' shows up in the mod list and can be selected, but the maps do not show up in the map list, even when you click on 'Additional Maps'.

    Of course I could just tell people to move the maps manually into the Maps folder, but it would lead to needless confusion. I deleted the mod on Steam Workshop for now but will upload it again once I can get it working properly.

    Here are the contents of the .modinfo file that ModBuddy made for the mod; can you tell me what's wrong here, if anything? I examined the files of a few working mods, but so far I didn't see anything different from my file.

    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    <Mod id="6d6d3021-ac77-455e-bd82-c7cee51a39ff" version="1">
      <Properties>
        <Name>ZipWorld v.0.1. (59 x 98) [BNW]</Name>
        <Stability>Alpha</Stability>
        <Teaser>Reduced ocean and tundra for enchanced gameplay</Teaser>
        <Description>
    - Reduced ocean and tundra
    
    - Accurate landforms
    
    - 22 Civs and 25 City States
    
    - Resources mostly accurate
    
    - Gameplay takes priority over Realism
    
    - Imperial and Colonial versions included for variety of play</Description>
        <Authors>Greizer85</Authors>
        <HideSetupGame>0</HideSetupGame>
        <AffectsSavedGames>0</AffectsSavedGames>
        <SupportsSinglePlayer>1</SupportsSinglePlayer>
        <SupportsMultiplayer>1</SupportsMultiplayer>
        <SupportsHotSeat>1</SupportsHotSeat>
        <SupportsMac>1</SupportsMac>
        <ReloadAudioSystem>0</ReloadAudioSystem>
        <ReloadLandmarkSystem>0</ReloadLandmarkSystem>
        <ReloadStrategicViewSystem>0</ReloadStrategicViewSystem>
        <ReloadUnitSystem>0</ReloadUnitSystem>
      </Properties>
      <Dependencies />
      <References />
      <Blocks />
      <Files>
        <File md5="E35F42BEC83C9D62FD50652ED0DBF7F4" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic A).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="A4418B1205A454851D8A62FE29A4900B" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic B).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="1B01E358C23B32A98B9D8E760B51D3F8" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic C).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="34A655B2DB3D621C907914DFF5BF03AF" import="0">ZipWorld (Colonial).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="B167036DCA0CD198255EF67A135B49B0" import="0">ZipWorld (Imperial).Civ5Map</File>
      </Files>
    </Mod> 


    I will make you a special island in a future version of the map if you solve this one... The quicker the better! ;) I already had 40 viewers and 11 subscribers and they must wonder where my map disappeared.
     
  3. MKDELTA3

    MKDELTA3 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    I'm having trouble with these maps. The start locations are random. I pick the map from the list and then I use the load scenario option and the start locations are still random.

    Am I doing something wrong?
     
  4. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Will take a look, but i've never made map packs before.

    That being said, my first advice would be : "don't use the steam headache-shop", but of course that's up to you to decide ;)

    EDIT : Can you check whether this works : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6047647/ZipWorld%20%28v%201%29.civ5mod
    The map should show under "Additional Maps" sub-menu.

    If it does work, here is the content of my modinfo file
    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
    <Mod id="a2fff514-e55f-4583-a36e-01afc65ad4e7" version="1">
      <Properties>
        <Name>ZipWorld</Name>
        <Stability>Alpha</Stability>
        <Teaser>ZipWorld map pack</Teaser>
        <Description>ZipWorld map pack</Description>
        <Authors>Greizer85</Authors>
        <HideSetupGame>0</HideSetupGame>
        <AffectsSavedGames>0</AffectsSavedGames>
        <SupportsSinglePlayer>1</SupportsSinglePlayer>
        <SupportsMultiplayer>1</SupportsMultiplayer>
        <SupportsHotSeat>1</SupportsHotSeat>
        <SupportsMac>1</SupportsMac>
        <ReloadAudioSystem>0</ReloadAudioSystem>
        <ReloadLandmarkSystem>0</ReloadLandmarkSystem>
        <ReloadStrategicViewSystem>0</ReloadStrategicViewSystem>
        <ReloadUnitSystem>0</ReloadUnitSystem>
      </Properties>
      <Dependencies />
      <References />
      <Blocks />
      <Files>
        <File md5="E35F42BEC83C9D62FD50652ED0DBF7F4" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic A).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="A4418B1205A454851D8A62FE29A4900B" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic B).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="1B01E358C23B32A98B9D8E760B51D3F8" import="0">ZipWorld (Basic C).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="34A655B2DB3D621C907914DFF5BF03AF" import="0">ZipWorld (Colonial).Civ5Map</File>
        <File md5="B167036DCA0CD198255EF67A135B49B0" import="0">ZipWorld (Imperial).Civ5Map</File>
      </Files>
      <EntryPoints>
        <EntryPoint type="Map" file="ZipWorld (Basic A).Civ5Map">
          <Name>ZipWorld (Basic A)</Name>
          <Description>
          </Description>
        </EntryPoint>
        <EntryPoint type="Map" file="ZipWorld (Basic B).Civ5Map">
          <Name>ZipWorld (Basic B)</Name>
          <Description>
          </Description>
        </EntryPoint>
        <EntryPoint type="Map" file="ZipWorld (Basic C).Civ5Map">
          <Name>ZipWorld (Basic C)</Name>
          <Description>
          </Description>
        </EntryPoint>
        <EntryPoint type="Map" file="ZipWorld (Colonial).Civ5Map">
          <Name>ZipWorld (Colonial)</Name>
          <Description>
          </Description>
        </EntryPoint>
        <EntryPoint type="Map" file="ZipWorld (Imperial).Civ5Map">
          <Name>ZipWorld (Imperial)</Name>
          <Description>
          </Description>
        </EntryPoint>
      </EntryPoints>
    </Mod>
    What you overlooked was the EntryPoint entries in the end of the file. You can define those in ModBuddy this way :
    Spoiler :




     
  5. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Uh-oh, more and more problems! :eek: They've always worked fine for me; I can't think of what the problem might be. You downloaded the maps from here, right? Not from the messed-up Steam mod while it was there?

    FWIW I will dl the zip and test it; but the maps should be identical to those on my comp, and they work fine for me.

    EDIT: This is very strange. When I enter through the Single Player menu, the locations are random; yet when I click 'Mods' and do not load any mod, the locations work just fine! :crazyeye: Also, although I've deleted all the 'mods' that I made from my map, one of them still shows up in my mod list! I give up at this point; can someone please tell me how you make it so that the map is just a map, with fixed starting locations, no other alterations? If I have to make it into a mod for that, then how do I do that? (If I sound impatient, you would too, after spending so long on the map(s) and having such a ridiculous hiccup destroy the actual upload! :))
     
  6. MKDELTA3

    MKDELTA3 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    Yes, I downloaded them from here. I was just wondering that maybe it's because I have the steam version of the game and it would require me to download it through steam to even work or something. :crazyeye:
     
  7. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2003
    Messages:
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    Mhh, i've edited my post while you were answering. I have the maps packed in a mod that works on my computer if you want to check.
     
  8. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Hi again. I'll make a separate post for clarity. Not sure those are bugs or features (i've only tested map A)
    • Some civilizations are set as teams, but are alone in their teams
    • Russia shows up with Japaneese colors (white/red) rather than theirs (yellow/black)
    • Research is much slower than it should for a standard speed (18 turns rather than 10 for level 1 tech), maybe it's an effect of the map size.
     
  9. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    GAH! I followed your instructions, and actually had it working already... Then I deleted it and made a new mod to change the name to be more specific (with version number etc), I followed the exact same steps and yet this time the maps do not show up! :mad: I will figure it out but it will take some time... Thank you for your help Bob, most likely I will have the maps up sometime tomorrow! :)

    • Not sure what's up here. I never touched the Team options, afaik. But if there are no adverse effects from it, I guess it's ok.
      I changed that at some point and forgot to change it back. It's a much better color scheme imo, so I guess it can stay that way, too.
    Humm this otoh might be a problem... I changed the map to a 'Huge' size nominally in order to slash the 5% science penalty per city that BNW introduced; however if it affects the actual research time, I will change it back (or go with Large instead, more likely). Thanks for the tips again!

    I will remove the zip for now and fix these issues. I'll try and get this working and re-upload again tomorrow, hopefully to Steam also. Sorry for the catastrophic release... But I'm sure you'll like my map once I actually get it working! :p
     
  10. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Not sure this makes a huge difference, but i created the mod as a "map pack" in the new mod "wizard". Probably what you did. Not sure what might go wrong. I think you can edit names/descriptions without re-doing the mod completly (only the folder structure is more or less fixed, and even this i've been able to change, but it's tricky)
    Looks like only the civs with high team number are affected (why is there even team 52? :eek:) . Not sure why? Will have a look.
    Looks strange :rolleyes: . Also, it might be slightly annoying if Russia ever shares borders with Japan, or to tell who's coming at your door in case you are at war with one but not the other.
    Or just accept the slower research, but then you have to warn players cause it would make the game play a lot differently.
    Hey, we've seen professional gaming companies release buggy games before, and even some software giants (who i won't name of course) have released buggy OSes :p

    EDIT : Well, i learned something : map size does affect research.
    Large will only make for 11 turns research for level 1 techs, and 3% increase per city. Huge was 18 turns and 2%
    Changed all team numbers so that Civ1 is team1, civ 2 is team 2. Some civs still show team numbers while others don't. Go figure :dunno:
     
  11. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Ooops

    Doesn't seem to affect later diplomacy, but you don't get the usual "first contact" screen.
    But this does show me the location of his capital.

    Might have been caused by my attempts to reset team numbers. Who knows.

    EDIT : And it looks like he's acting as if he was a CS, unable to capture ruins
     
  12. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Dear God... Which version is that? Something's up the jig there! :lol:

    I've uploaded a 'mod' version of the maps now... I've tested it and it works (regarding starting locations... Not sure of other issues, such as Pedro's shenanigans there). Steam still gives me the finger, but I'm confident I'll figure it out somehow... And if not, well, I'll just keep the map available here. I don't like Steam anyway. I only want to have the map there because it will reach a lot more people that way.

    Regarding the teams and Russian colors, I left them as-is for now. Let's see if Pedro's City State adventure was because of that or not. :) Btw do you know what effect those high team numbers might have? If none (or cosmetic), then they can stay as they are. I have a bad feeling though that they might be the cause of the issue in those pics...

    Edit: And I made the maps 'Large' for purposes of research and the science penalty.
     
  13. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I think it was related.
    I've found out that in my modified version, he was in a team with a CS. So i changed all teams numbers as follows :
    All major civs are team 1-22
    All CSs are team 31-45
    No more teams showing up in the score board, and now Pedro knows he's a major civ.
     
  14. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Hmm I might do that as well, just to avoid confusion. But I just got the Steam version working (it's private for now), so I dread to start the whole process again. :p

    Ofc you could just attach your modified versions, but then they wouldn't be named correctly. Did you also change the maps to 'Large' btw? If so, perhaps you could rename the package to the name that I have in my current uploaded zip, so there'd be less work. But for some reason Steam (that nightmare of a program to use!) is fairly stingy with naming privileges... I guess I could just edit the teams myself, it doesn't take that long after all.

    EDIT: Went ahead and did it, the zip now has proper teams as well. That should be the last change to it unless something else is off as well. Now to get that Steam mod working, and all will (fingers crossed) be well! :)

    So, Bob -- what part of the Pacific do you want your tropical resort in? ;) Nothing too fancy, but I can put a few resources or special features. Likely only in the Colonial version, since it already has one or two fictional things.
     
  15. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

    Joined:
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    This actually wouldn't have worked. There is a mod-id entry in the modinfo file that would differ between our builds. Individual maps would likely have different md5 checksums and couldn't be exchanged easily in an already built mod :badcomp: There are security reasons behind this, but it can be really annoying.
    BTW, is it a zip (i'm talking about the compressed file, not your map :crazyeye:) you've put on steam or a civ5mod file? civ5mod are really just 7zip compressed files with a different extension, but i'm not sure CiV can load a zip file as a mod.
    In case you don't know, you can find the civ5mod ready for distribution in you mods project folder under the "Packages" subfolder so you don't have to recompress you mod's folder.

    Well, i won't be too strict, any private pacific island is great :lol: Jokes apart, you don't have to, i'm glad i could actually help (i've received help in those forums multiple times) so really do as you want. I just hope everything will work nicely now.

    Back to testing whether Incas really have to good a staring position or not. :D
     
  16. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

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    Yes; I did take the file from 'packages'. I already downloaded my own mod from Steam and it works fine now.

    I must say they haven't made mod-making too easy in Civ V. I absolutely marvel at the patience of people who can make something like Fall from Heaven.

    Perhaps I'll actually test the map too... So far I haven't played it beyond turn 0 in all this time! :lol: As for the Incas, you may be right -- I had to give them something to start with before they get their Terrace Farms, though. All starting locations are pretty great on my maps, as I hate starting in a bad location. It should all balance out, but if not, rest assured I'll re-balance things in a future version.



    EDIT: Fixed it once more and now it is correct both on Steam and here; but this is the last time. If something clicks now, then I'll SNAP! :lol: Compared to this ordeal, making the map was a walk in the park. :p
     
  17. Lord Yanaek

    Lord Yanaek Chieftain

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    Well, i really not know about Incas. You were the one suggesting they might have too good a starting location.
    That being said, if they do, it's probably because so much mountains make for strong science with observatories rather than too many Terrace Farms (those are part of the civilization, nobody ever complained that Maya have too good a start location if they can build many cities with Pyramids :crazyeye:), i think it's only fair that every civ can use their uniques and i hate when i start with no freshwater as Aztecs, Land-Locked Venice (yes, i've had such starts!), no-forests as Celts or whatever stupid starting location.
     
  18. MKDELTA3

    MKDELTA3 Chieftain

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    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    The barb camps in Australia apparently neither contain any barbarians nor spawn them (or do so at a very slow rate).

    edit: this is for the map A at least
     
  19. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Thank you for the feedback. Not sure what's up there, but it's a decidedly minor issue in any case. I will put some barbs there manually in the first update. Any other criticisms/observations so far? :)


    I tried Japan first and noticed a distinct lack of food before my borders expanded to claim the nearby Wheats; nearly everyone else gets a Wheat in their first ring, so that will need correcting. I quit my Japan game when Barbarians pillaged my first Cargo Ship... The wide coasts may contribute to increased barb activity, but I think the benefit is greater than the downside. Just have to be more careful and build those Triremes! :eek:

    My second game as the Dutch on map B is going a little better. The first observation was inevitably that Europe is still far too small, but I'm not sure if it's possible to expand it further. I only got one extra city on the mainland; as I colonized the British Isles, I noticed that I left the Ancient Ruins that were meant for the English in place. I'll have to delete them, as I only intended that each Civ (apart from Polynesia and the Shoshone) gets 4 ruins close to their capital, so that some randomness is eliminated when it comes to ruin luck. Now you won't have AI scouts sniping your ruins, so you only have to get lucky and get that Culture (or whatever you want). Incidentally this makes Scouts a pretty questionable investment, but I'm actually fine with that as it means it's finally worth it to build a Worker in the beginning.

    Other observations so far:

    * Even with their Salt, the Dutch lack sorely for early production.
    * London otoh has an overabundance of food, and a similar lack of production in the beginning.
    * Glasgow gets no fresh water despite the river next to it; not sure what's up there.
    * There are almost no Forests in Europe apart from the Hill tiles. I meant to add them but forgot it in my haste to finish the map. :blush:
    * Either Europe needs more resources or the rest of the world should have less, since right now the difference is not pronounced enough to make up for the lack of room in Europe. I guess I'll take stuff away from elsewhere, because otherwise there will be no room in Europe for GP tiles! :crazyeye:
    * More forests needed in Britain for the Celts.

    On a more general level, the abundant Wheats are pretty conspicuous on the map, especially in Asia, where Rice would be far more fitting. Why Firaxis never added more food resources is a big questionmark. I guess I could look into modding the map to add resource variety; but let's wait for more feedback before any drastic modifications.

    --- Keep playing and reporting, and please do not be shy to download the map! :) Any issues will be with in-game balance; no more mod-related hiccups should occur.
     
  20. MKDELTA3

    MKDELTA3 Chieftain

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    I played a bit with Japan (into early medieval, quit because I had accidentaly left the difficulty too low :p ) and I think they have enough resources. Having some wheats in the 2nd ring instead of the 1st going to ruin the game for them. I was getting pretty sweet culture from all the fish and atolls. Maybe even too much. Perhaps you could remove some of the atolls which border the island of Japan.

    I also played a bit with Brazil to see what South America is like. There's a ginormous amount of land for just 2 civs though I guess it'll run out soon enough with Pachacuti and his expansionist shenanigans. He forward-settled an awful piece of jungle near me probably just to annoy me. An extra city state or two could be nice to faciliate trade. Maybe something in what is today Venezuela, perhaps something in southern Chile or the Guyana/Suriname/Belize area.

    I think it could be good to have 1-2 extra city state per continent. They're very usefull for trading during times when you are at war with a major civs and outside of europe there's a real risk of getting into war with someone and you don't have any other civs to trade with. Maybe you could put some CSes on locations where other civs would be on other maps, for example a CS representing Seoul if Korea is not in the game and so on.

    I had an idea about Australia and barbs. Perhaps you could try putting some of those Inca Slingers there as extra barbarian units. They are pretty sucky as a UU but their ability to dodge melee would make them a nightmarish early barbarian unit. You probably don't want to make that continent too easy to take over.
     

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