[TSL] ZipWorld v.0.1. (59 x 98) -- Now With Less Ocean & Tundra ™

Lord Yanaek

Emperor
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
1,499
Just noticed that Spain doesn't keep the Gold from seeing Gibraltar on T0 berfore they Settle (this will occur if their Warrior appears on the tiles south of the Settler.
Not sure whether it's bad or good. NW near cap is very strong with Spain, but if they can't get the 500 gold theren they will get none (Morroco will get first sight if the Warrior apears north of the Settler and has to move, even if they still see it on T0.
 

Lord Yanaek

Emperor
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
Messages
1,499
I think it'seasier to see who is in map if civs are sorted alphabetically so here it is :
Basic A|Basic B|Basic C|Imperial|Colonial
America|Austria|America|America (Empire)|Arabia
Arabia|Babylon|Assyria|Brazil (Empire)|Babylon
Aztec|Brazil|Aztec|China (Empire)|China
Brazil|China|Brazil|Persia (Empire)|Egypt
Byzantium|Egypt|Carthage|Polynesia (Empire)|English
China|Ethiopia|Celts|Russia (Empire)|Ethiopia
Egypt|Greece|China|Zulu (Empire)|Germany
England|Inca|Egypt||India
Ethiopia|India|France|Spain|Indonesia
France|Indonesia|Inca|Austria|Japan
Germany|Iroquois|India|Byzantium|Korea
Inca|Maya|Indonesia|Carthage|Morocco
India|Morocco|Korea|Celts|Ottomans
Indonesia|Netherlands|Ottomans|English|Portugal
Japan|Polynesia|Poland|France|Russia
Mongols|Rome|Polynesia|Germany|Siam
Persia|Russia|Russia|Greece|Songhai
Portugal|Shoshone|Shoshone|Morocco|Spain
Russia|Siam|Songhai|Poland|The Huns
Shoshone|Spain|The Huns|Portugal|The Netherlands
Songhai|The Huns|Venice|Rome|Venice
Zulu|Zulu|Zulu|The Netherlands|Zulu
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
I think it'seasier to see who is in map if civs are sorted alphabetically so here it is :
Spoiler :
Basic A|Basic B|Basic C|Imperial|Colonial
America|Austria|America|America (Empire)|Arabia
Arabia|Babylon|Assyria|Brazil (Empire)|Babylon
Aztec|Brazil|Aztec|China (Empire)|China
Brazil|China|Brazil|Persia (Empire)|Egypt
Byzantium|Egypt|Carthage|Polynesia (Empire)|English
China|Ethiopia|Celts|Russia (Empire)|Ethiopia
Egypt|Greece|China|Zulu (Empire)|Germany
England|Inca|Egypt||India
Ethiopia|India|France|Spain|Indonesia
France|Indonesia|Inca|Austria|Japan
Germany|Iroquois|India|Byzantium|Korea
Inca|Maya|Indonesia|Carthage|Morocco
India|Morocco|Korea|Celts|Ottomans
Indonesia|Netherlands|Ottomans|English|Portugal
Japan|Polynesia|Poland|France|Russia
Mongols|Rome|Polynesia|Germany|Siam
Persia|Russia|Russia|Greece|Songhai
Portugal|Shoshone|Shoshone|Morocco|Spain
Russia|Siam|Songhai|Poland|The Huns
Shoshone|Spain|The Huns|Portugal|The Netherlands
Songhai|The Huns|Venice|Rome|Venice
Zulu|Zulu|Zulu|The Netherlands|Zulu
Neat! I incorporated this into the first post. :goodjob:

About the Spanish issue: that's pretty bad. Not sure what can be done about it... If I put a Warrior for Spain, won't they spawn an extra one? I guess I could test whether that is the case. Alternatively I could move Madrid, but that puts it decidedly in the wrong spot. The Morocco issue might be easy enough to solve: just don't put Morocco on the same map as Spain. I will have to keep all these things in mind for the first update.

I played a bit with Japan (into early medieval, quit because I had accidentaly left the difficulty too low :p ) and I think they have enough resources. Having some wheats in the 2nd ring instead of the 1st going to ruin the game for them. I was getting pretty sweet culture from all the fish and atolls. Maybe even too much. Perhaps you could remove some of the atolls which border the island of Japan.
I know it won't make or break the game; but it'd be nice to have all starting locations balanced, if only for multiplayer. About the atolls: did you see the Pacific? :p If you think there are too much Atolls in Japan, wait 'til you get to Tonga! :lol: Japan's been the underdog for so long that I say let them have their fun for a little while; I may nerf the amount of Atolls in the future, but it's something to keep in mind that other civs will need them to make the Pacific worth settling at all.
I also played a bit with Brazil to see what South America is like. There's a ginormous amount of land for just 2 civs though I guess it'll run out soon enough with Pachacuti and his expansionist shenanigans. He forward-settled an awful piece of jungle near me probably just to annoy me. An extra city state or two could be nice to faciliate trade. Maybe something in what is today Venezuela, perhaps something in southern Chile or the Guyana/Suriname/Belize area.

I think it could be good to have 1-2 extra city state per continent. They're very usefull for trading during times when you are at war with a major civs and outside of europe there's a real risk of getting into war with someone and you don't have any other civs to trade with. Maybe you could put some CSes on locations where other civs would be on other maps, for example a CS representing Seoul if Korea is not in the game and so on.
Very good ideas, both of these. I hate City States taking up prime spots of land and clogging movement, but I guess one or two more per continent would be alright, provided that I choose the spots carefully. Now that Consulates is nerfed, my original reason for not including too many City States has become a moot point, so I may put 30 on the map in the final end.
I had an idea about Australia and barbs. Perhaps you could try putting some of those Inca Slingers there as extra barbarian units. They are pretty sucky as a UU but their ability to dodge melee would make them a nightmarish early barbarian unit. You probably don't want to make that continent too easy to take over.
I'd give you +rep for this idea if I could here on CFC! :D Consider it done, if only barbs can be given special units (I'm pretty sure it's possible). Edit: The Colonial version will also see a wealth of new Barb units thanks to this! It's a pity that you can't make them friendly to the City States (at least not without modding)... They're going to wreck some of the improvements I put in the Americas (spoiler spoiler), but since the damage isn't permanent I figured it's not a big deal.

Keep 'em coming, folks... There's a lot to iron out even though I spent a long time on these maps! :goodjob:
 

MKDELTA3

Warlord
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
126
Location
Helsinki, Finland
I hate City States taking up prime spots of land and clogging movement, but I guess one or two more per continent would be alright, provided that I choose the spots carefully. Now that Consulates is nerfed, my original reason for not including too many City States has become a moot point, so I may put 30 on the map in the final end.

Some tentative suggestions for each continent:

Europe:
Antwerp/Brussels if Dutch are not present
Glasgow if no British or Celts (was there a map without them?)
Zurich or Kiev
Helsinki :p

Africa:
I know so little that it's hard to come up with ideas here...

Addis Ababa or Lalibela if Ethiopia is not in
Garamantes or Berber city state in Sahari
Namibia, it would place two CS next to Zulus though

Asia:
I think there are quite a few here which would be well located if there are no corresponding civilizations:
Seoul if no Korea
Bangkok if no Siam
Honolulu if no Polynesia

Honolulu is most the superflous of these I guess, but I think Seol and Bangkok would be perfect for Map A

Some random suggestions:
Kabul
Almaty (was it in?)
Taiwan - never seems to get settled in any TSL map I've ever played with any civs, Taiwan had indigenous population before the Chinese
Manchus in Siberia - would perhaps be a bit weird...

Americas:

Caracas in Venezuela
Something in present-day south-central Chile...perhaps someone who knows South American history has some ideas? Mapuche?
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
It doesn't really matter too much what their names would be, because most City States would have to be renamed and currently there's no way to do that correctly (without modding at least).

The thing about putting CSs in Europe is that there's already very few spots for extra cities. If Glasgow was there on my current map, I couldn't have what will eventually be my second-best city (the best production-wise). Zurich is out of the question, they will clog the whole Western Europe with their Pike spam. Kiev is a viable choice though, and I will consider it.

EDIT: 384 views and 10 downloads? :dubious: Granted that there were some issues and I kept replacing the file; I just hope that it hasn't turned people off the map. First impressions and everything. On Steam there have been 35 downloads so far. Rest assured that it will be some time before the first update, so waiting for that isn't optimal (I'm often guilty of this myself; if a new version of something is about to come out, I refuse to play the current one ;)).
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
Just a heads-up: it seems you actually can't change the Game Speed setting from within the game! In the past, you couldn't click on the button; nowadays you can but it has no actual effect! :crazyeye: I will edit the op to warn people about this issue. Firaxis should get their act together and fix this bug; it's been there for a long, long time.
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
Diving into this one right now! Nice work Sir!
Thank you; do report how you find the map. :)

I continued my Dutch game until Public Schools... Played very haphazardly, since I'm just testing. It feels like there's just too many things to build in the game now, with the trade routes, Archaeologists, etc. It could be partly the lack of production; in the first update I aim to put similar production resources near all starting places, so that you can build either a Stoneworks, Forge or a Stables and add production that way. Pity I didn't think of this before.

There's something a bit funky going on in my game it seems. The American civs are all monsters of expansion (with Hiawatha it's no surprise, but even Pedro's at it pretty good), while the East Asian civs exhibit a distinct lack of settlement. The Zulus have colonized southern India and Polynesia has two cities right next to Beijing; meanwhile Siberia is almost empty (good in a way but hey). Also, it seems like no one has any spare luxes to trade. I managed to acquire Sugar from Pacal but otherwise I haven't been able to make any luxury trades, and I've a dire need for Happiness. I figure a few extra luxes / starting location might be in order. Perhaps it's just the Dutch starting area though.

The weirdest thing about my game was how at the start of the Renaissance, when everyone got their first spy, someone went and stole Calendar from me! :dubious: I guess it might be the Huns or some other backward warmonger; but really now how backward can you get? And while we're discussing warmongering, so far there doesn't seem to be much of it. A few cities have switched owners but no major wipe-outs. Hopefully some will happen soon (and I won't be one of them; my army has consisted of a single Archer for the whole game :p).

It's getting to be a fairly boring Science game; I'm pulling ahead now thanks to beelining Schools so I might just quit and test some other civ/start.

So far there haven't been many reports... I guess most people are downloading the map from Steam, and the comment function there is truly abysmal. The longer and more detailed report you can make, the better! I'd love to read nothing but feedback about my map all day (hint, hint). ;) :D

Australian Aborigines have a nice MOD out there...might be good for a balancing act.
I'd rather not add mods for now (seeing what a hassle simply uploading the map was), but it's something I'll keep in mind for the future. Feel free to add them yourself btw, and upload another version of the map if you want to. The people who make maps and those who improve them the best are often not the same folks. It's easy to get blinded to obvious mistakes and even more obvious fixes when you stare at the same disfigured peninsula for days and days, trying to figure out how to make it pass for at least a lame excuse of itself. :p
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
700
I'm Thankful you have the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Suez linked via a city. An excellent piece of work that is not normally found on many of these world maps.

I would certainly remove some of the atolls ....playing as Japan here...they are quite powerful.

Playing the colonize map btw... I think China and Korea need a mongol threat vs the Hun threat out west. So far very very balanced...the CS in the new world are getting enormous...and I love the natural wonders placements. ;-)
 

timucin

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 31, 2013
Messages
16
Great map but wish there were Ottomans instead of Byzantium in the imperial scenario.
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
Great map but wish there were Ottomans instead of Byzantium in the imperial scenario.
Glad you like it; you may edit the map in the World Builder and replace the Byzantines with Ottomans. It's very easy to do, unlike real 'modding' changes.

So little feedback in this thread... I've got 1,600 dls on Steam though, so I guess there was a demand for a map like this. :eek: With this little feedback I'm not sure if I'll bother to update the map too much though; I think I might rather want to make new maps instead. After all I can't really play on my map since all I see in it are glaring errors all the time -- one of the curses of building things by yourself! :D And no other map can satisfy me atm... The land form on most maps is terrible in some parts of the world (although great in others -- e.g. the Britain on my map leaves a *lot* to be desired compared to some maps).

The map of Finland I made is almost complete when it comes to land forms; only some Hills need to be added and then the Forests. It'd be a perfect map for a Winter War scenario or a 'Tribes of Ancient Finland duking it out' type of concept... Huge amount of work needed for the latter though, and I'm no modder. Decisions, decisions.

Anyway, I'll make the Christmas update and at least two others, this I promise. After that I'll have to see where I want to go with this and/or other maps. Meanwhile have fun playing on my map (I wish I could, too, hehe). :)

-Greizer

Edit:

MisterBoomBoom said:
I'm Thankful you have the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Suez linked via a city. An excellent piece of work that is not normally found on many of these world maps.

I know, and I hate that too, which is why I made sure it's possible on my map. ;) There's still the problem that it's too close to Thebes, but then I don't want to move that either; at least now you can have the canal if you want to.


I would certainly remove some of the atolls ....playing as Japan here...they are quite powerful.

Fear not, for I've already begun the process of toning them down. However I will be careful to preserve Japan as a powerful civ on my map, and to maintain the Pacific as a viable settling ground for other civs.


Playing the colonize map btw... I think China and Korea need a mongol threat vs the Hun threat out west. So far very very balanced...the CS in the new world are getting enormous...and I love the natural wonders placements. ;-)

Trouble is there's no room for more civs in the Colonial version. I'll have to see if I can remove some other civ and put in the Mongols. I originally excluded them because they're an inland civ, focused on land warfare; I wanted to have as many sea-faring powers as possible, to intensify the colonization race. As for the CSs, I recently discovered that
Spoiler :
Venice can buy all three Incan cities at once, so I may have to make them into separate CSs... Not ideal but it's simply too powerful to be able to buy them all at once imo. Ofc it's not all that balanced to have the FoY right next to Eldorado either... :D But as a woman who can appreciate the finer things in life, lady Isabella must have her indulgences every now and then. ;)
 

MKDELTA3

Warlord
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
126
Location
Helsinki, Finland
Barbarians don't appear to spawn at all on the Imperial map. Intentional or not?
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
Barbarians don't appear to spawn at all on the Imperial map. Intentional or not?
Certainly not. Dear oh dear... I wonder what is up with the Barbs on my maps? I guess the empty camps in Australia could be affecting Barb spawns in other areas; but I've already encountered Barbs in Asia and Europe when I tried map B (before correcting the empty camps issue). It's weird that no one else has mentioned this so far. I've no idea what could be causing this -- unless I've somehow clicked 'No Barbarians' on the Imperial map. Btw doesn't this cause the Empires to runaway even more than intended? :eek:
 

MKDELTA3

Warlord
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
126
Location
Helsinki, Finland
Certainly not. Dear oh dear... I wonder what is up with the Barbs on my maps?

I have a vague memory that putting 22 civs on a map without doing something causes barbarians to stop from spawning but I have no idea what it was. I think it was on the Legendary Earth Mod thread.

Btw doesn't this cause the Empires to runaway even more than intended? :eek:

No. I've been playing with Polynesia just to chill out and the other empires have barely expanded. It's something like 1650ish and the only ones who have expanded notably are the Zulus who have around 7 cities. Russia has 6. China has 4 cities and avoided the fertile southern coast like plague, Brazil has 4 and America has 5 and they founded their latest city on present-day Equador while the entire west coast is unsettled. Meanwhile I've settled something like 24 cities just for the heck of it.

I have a feeling that the strict happiness and science penalties on expansion combined with warmonger hate and higher fertility limits have really neutered the AIs. :mad:
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
@MisterBoomBoom: Thank you for your kind words. :) Any further improvements you can think of?

@MKDELTA3: Thank you, I'll try to search for the cause of the Barb issue.

About the AIs' expansion rate: which difficulty are you playing on? I'll assume it's not Deity as 24 cities would kill your happiness in that case. Typically the AIs are sluggish in their expansion on any level below Immortal; on Immortal at least one or two should balloon into giants, but of course it depends on the particular game. It may indeed be that BNW changed this and the only way to get them to expand rapidly enough is to play on Deity -- a pity really as Deity is very restrictive in what approach you can take (science all the way asap).

I guess I could recommend some mods for use with my map; I'm thinking of trying Ninakoru's fresh-from-the-oven tweak mod that tries to balance the op science a little bit. But I won't directly combine any mods with my map, as people might be averse to some of them and besides it's too complex for me to do in the first place. :p
 

TheMarshmallowBear

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
7,959
Location
Inside a Ziggurat
From what I recall I remember that the spawn mechanic for barbarians no longer works correctly in custom maps that have them pre-spawned or something.

Btw, I loved your map, I should give it a go again, I tried to set up a hot-seat game but 12 player is limit and I'm not sure which empires to keep and which to kick out xD.
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
The Barb issue seems to stem from the fact that the Barbs use Team #22 after the latest patch (or are somehow otherwise associated with it), so I've changed the last civ from #22 to Team #48 (after all the City States). I haven't tested it yet but I'm confident it'll work. The weird thing though is that map B spawned Barbs for me just fine. Anyway thanks for the tips folks. :goodjob:

In other news, 2,000 downloads in Steam WS! :cool: Seems to be slowing down now though. I guess most people might like bigger maps better.

I'm not anywhere near industrious enough to repeat my map concept for a Huge map; but if someone were to do it, I'm sure it'd get the most downloads, provided that the map is good work ofc. It might be possible to take e.g. Cookie's version of Gedemon's map and cut it down to size when it comes to oceans. One must be aware of the ridiculous WB bug when doing it though; basically if you alter plots that touch the 'world wrap' zone on a wrapping map, the graphic gets duplicated in the regular view (Strategic View is unaffected), making it seem like your units walk on mountains and the like. Horrible, terrible bug that can screw you over bigtime; it almost caused me to ruin my map by accident. Just a heads-up if someone decides to take up this mega-gigantic task (just for reference, making a new Huge map like this from scratch would be a super-hyper-mega-giga-sexicalifragilistic, googolplexic heart-attack-inducing hurdle of a BIG task. Make sure you have a steady access to meth if you do try it. :twitch::mwaha:[pissed]:please::aargh::suicide: )
 

Greizer85

Emperor
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
1,210
Just posting here to notify folks that my map/mod will be discontinued, as my map will likely be added into Gedemon's outstanding YnAEMP mod. I will attach a superior version of the map to the first post, along with some screenshots of the various starting positions, so you may edit in the civs that you prefer as you wait for Gedemon to update his mod (which he may or may not do ofc).
 
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