To me, it seems like the balance part of the mod is getting close to completion. Most of the major issues are addressed, and I think its down to tuning.
So I want to go through a series of threads to do some (hopefully) final tuning to the buildings to finish them once and for all. This thread will focus on Ancient and Classical Era buildings, just so the thread doesn't get too long.
Overall, I will use a simple ranking system to look at them.
A - Great, no change
C - Building is a bit too weak, a bit too strong, or just not quite interesting enough. Needs some possible adjustment.
F - Building is too weak or too strong, and needs some love.
Granary: (A) - Fairly easy to get another +1 food or more from the extra resources. The +15% growth generates roughly another +1 food but stays more relevant throughout the game. Solid.
Shrine: (A) - +2 faith change was great, combined with no maint makes it very nice.
Council: (C) - I've changed my mind about the council over time. I did not use to like the science for pop bonus, but I find it creates some nice tension in the early buildings. The faster you build a council, the more bang you get for the pop bonus. But other buildings help evolve your city. Still, it feels just a little weaker than some of the early building equivalents. Maybe no maint cost?
Well (A) - A solid jumpstart building with reasonable cost.
Market (C) - Really its about the merchant slot for this building, the +1 gold isn't worth the time, though the resource bonuses are nice. Just a little bit on the weak side.
Herbalist (A) - Great building to bump forest/jungle squares, and makes those areas viable early game, but balanced by a strong maint cost.
Barracks (A) - A building that was once pretty mediocre and is now wonderful. Gives science, maybe production, gives more xp, what's not to love?
Walls: (C) - Compared to the cost of units, there are better initial investments for your hammers I feel. I also find that once the garrison is dead, the walls hp bonus really doesn't do much. Just a small strength increase would get it in line.
Stone Works (C) - Assuming it generates +3 hammers (marble + stone), then it takes 30 turns to pay for itself. The power of the building is the ability to trade production early in the game....though at this point food is often a better option to jump start cities. Still it has its uses, but more of a niche building.
Lighthouse (A): It serves its niche well. I find I need it sometimes to strengthen the water, sometimes just to get the connection...but its solidly useful for both.
Library: (A): Good solid science building.
Scrivener's Office (C): Mainly because I find diplomatic units too expensive when this building come out, its usually a while before I build it. Its just a little on the weak side.
Water Mill (C): Probably the strongest overall building at this point in the game, and in much of the game. Certainly defines the river location, so it may be on the OP side. I don't know if it needs to scale faster than the well along with its base bonuses, especially since river spots already get innate bonuses.
Arena: (A): Took a boring building and made it neat. Defines early tourism, gives a little culture. The synergy with the military buildings is what ultimately makes it solid, as it reduces the overall hammer cost of the building to make the bigger cost more palatable.
Forge: (C): Because mines are not used that early on in general, it takes a while for the forge to pay for itself, even with iron around. The +1 science adds a little something to it, and then the engineer slot is the key piece. This one feels just a little weak to me, but I'm on the edge.
Heroic Epic (A): Gets the job done!
National Monument: (A) Really encourages you to grow that population early on! Awesome building.
Amphitheater: (A) One of the best success stories for VP compared to vanilla. This build is garbage in vanilla, but very nice in VP. The +2 culture is huge at that point, the resource synergies are nice, once you have your writer's guilds you gain +3 gold for each one, its a great building in a guild city, and out of one.
Writer's Guild: (A) Does its job.
Courthouse: (A) Does its job.
Temple: (A) Solid building for pushing faith play, much improved from vanilla. I really like the increase in religious pressure, giving you a more active role.
School of Philosophy: (A) I'd build it for the culture and base science, let alone the +2 GS points and the +20% during golden ages. I think its probably a little OP, but it helps define tall play so I think its fine for that.
Aqueduct: (F) - A more hammer expensive granary, whose resource benefits are not as good. Sure it stacks with the granary, but I think it should be cheaper, or give a stronger base food benefit.
Caravansary: (C) - A fairly niche building, though I really like the tourism mechanic. I think its pretty good, its just niche.
Circus Maximus: (A) - I find the WLTK bonus a little fiddly, but its a good building regardless.
Baths: (C) - +2 culture at this point is still great, though weaker than the amphitheater.....oh wait it makes that building even cooler! I find the golden age bonus finnicky, and if I was going to change something it would be that.
So I want to go through a series of threads to do some (hopefully) final tuning to the buildings to finish them once and for all. This thread will focus on Ancient and Classical Era buildings, just so the thread doesn't get too long.
Overall, I will use a simple ranking system to look at them.
A - Great, no change
C - Building is a bit too weak, a bit too strong, or just not quite interesting enough. Needs some possible adjustment.
F - Building is too weak or too strong, and needs some love.
Granary: (A) - Fairly easy to get another +1 food or more from the extra resources. The +15% growth generates roughly another +1 food but stays more relevant throughout the game. Solid.
Shrine: (A) - +2 faith change was great, combined with no maint makes it very nice.
Council: (C) - I've changed my mind about the council over time. I did not use to like the science for pop bonus, but I find it creates some nice tension in the early buildings. The faster you build a council, the more bang you get for the pop bonus. But other buildings help evolve your city. Still, it feels just a little weaker than some of the early building equivalents. Maybe no maint cost?
Well (A) - A solid jumpstart building with reasonable cost.
Market (C) - Really its about the merchant slot for this building, the +1 gold isn't worth the time, though the resource bonuses are nice. Just a little bit on the weak side.
Herbalist (A) - Great building to bump forest/jungle squares, and makes those areas viable early game, but balanced by a strong maint cost.
Barracks (A) - A building that was once pretty mediocre and is now wonderful. Gives science, maybe production, gives more xp, what's not to love?
Walls: (C) - Compared to the cost of units, there are better initial investments for your hammers I feel. I also find that once the garrison is dead, the walls hp bonus really doesn't do much. Just a small strength increase would get it in line.
Stone Works (C) - Assuming it generates +3 hammers (marble + stone), then it takes 30 turns to pay for itself. The power of the building is the ability to trade production early in the game....though at this point food is often a better option to jump start cities. Still it has its uses, but more of a niche building.
Lighthouse (A): It serves its niche well. I find I need it sometimes to strengthen the water, sometimes just to get the connection...but its solidly useful for both.
Library: (A): Good solid science building.
Scrivener's Office (C): Mainly because I find diplomatic units too expensive when this building come out, its usually a while before I build it. Its just a little on the weak side.
Water Mill (C): Probably the strongest overall building at this point in the game, and in much of the game. Certainly defines the river location, so it may be on the OP side. I don't know if it needs to scale faster than the well along with its base bonuses, especially since river spots already get innate bonuses.
Arena: (A): Took a boring building and made it neat. Defines early tourism, gives a little culture. The synergy with the military buildings is what ultimately makes it solid, as it reduces the overall hammer cost of the building to make the bigger cost more palatable.
Forge: (C): Because mines are not used that early on in general, it takes a while for the forge to pay for itself, even with iron around. The +1 science adds a little something to it, and then the engineer slot is the key piece. This one feels just a little weak to me, but I'm on the edge.
Heroic Epic (A): Gets the job done!
National Monument: (A) Really encourages you to grow that population early on! Awesome building.
Amphitheater: (A) One of the best success stories for VP compared to vanilla. This build is garbage in vanilla, but very nice in VP. The +2 culture is huge at that point, the resource synergies are nice, once you have your writer's guilds you gain +3 gold for each one, its a great building in a guild city, and out of one.
Writer's Guild: (A) Does its job.
Courthouse: (A) Does its job.
Temple: (A) Solid building for pushing faith play, much improved from vanilla. I really like the increase in religious pressure, giving you a more active role.
School of Philosophy: (A) I'd build it for the culture and base science, let alone the +2 GS points and the +20% during golden ages. I think its probably a little OP, but it helps define tall play so I think its fine for that.
Aqueduct: (F) - A more hammer expensive granary, whose resource benefits are not as good. Sure it stacks with the granary, but I think it should be cheaper, or give a stronger base food benefit.
Caravansary: (C) - A fairly niche building, though I really like the tourism mechanic. I think its pretty good, its just niche.
Circus Maximus: (A) - I find the WLTK bonus a little fiddly, but its a good building regardless.
Baths: (C) - +2 culture at this point is still great, though weaker than the amphitheater.....oh wait it makes that building even cooler! I find the golden age bonus finnicky, and if I was going to change something it would be that.
to the happiness buildings, up to the zoo. The reason is that the zoo is a hidden scientific building, but nobody knows it first hand. So, if councils were to give science to the happiness buildings, a player interested in raw science production will invest in the correct buildings.
