In this thread we are going to look at all the national wonders in one shot! National Wonders are less about balance, and more about the mechanics they bring to the table, as they effectively add new mechanics to the game in many cases, as well as often are balancing items between TALL and WIDE playstyles.
Scriver's Office (C) Normally the starting point for diplomatic play, I just find that the diplomatic units are still too expensive to really start using at this point.
I think what would make this nice is to provide a free emissary at its construction, to kick off the start of diplomatic play and wet the players appetite for securing CS allies since the units.
Heroic Epic (A) Just does the job.
National Monument (A) One of the lynchpin national wonders to me, is a key balance elements in capital centric playstyles.
School of Philosophy (A) Another of the lynchpin national wonders, at the time provides a nice boost to science, but as GA becomes more frequent in the late game really scales up.
Circus Maximus (A) The key is the culture bonus, can really drive up a capitals culture with WLTK play. The happiness is a good immediate bonus.
Oxford University: (C) Though its not the strongest bonus, it does allow a science focused player to recoup some of the culture they are given up to culture players with a focus on tech. But the bonus is not that strong, maybe a slight increase.
Grand Temple (A) A really fun NW. Gives everyone a chance to play with a golden age, the faith bonus is good for everyone, and helps a little with unrest.
East India Company (A) Opens some fun doors for trade with new luxuries to give away, and the extra gold is pretty nice.
Ironworks: (A) The +10 hammers is big! But the science bonus is also a good mechanic. One of my favs
Printing Press (A). Ultimately it gives you a boost in diplomatic play at a time when they normally becomes more commonplace. Its a bit bland to me is my only issue.
Hermitage (C). Culture is decent, just a bit bland. Would be nice to at least have some tourism on it without needing special policies or religious beliefs.
International Finance Center (A). Its yields are weaker than the other ideology equivalents, but its votes are much easier to get. A solid one.
Palace of Culture and Science (A). To me one of the key reasons to get Order, though I find its votes are much much more difficult to get as a human, the AI like to defensive pact with each other but never with me!
Foreign Bureau: (C) Its strong enough, but its just another NW in a string of diplomatic NWs that all do the same exact thing. Time for some spice, give me something cool to do with diplomacy at this point!
Hall of Honor: (F) This doesn't synergize very well with Autocracy at all. The faith bonus is very late in the game, the tourism bonus doesn't work well with Autocracy. The votes are somewhat directly in your control, but find Freedom's vote building to be comparable.
National Intelligence Agency: (F). I don't care about spy reduction, the crime reduction in a city with a police station is usually handled. The +1 spy is the only thing going for it, but new spies only do so much at this point. This one could use some spice to it, maybe something cool to do with my spies.
National Visitor Center (F - OP). Ultimately this is one of the most important buildings for the culture victory...it provides a massive boost in tourism.
And I actually think its too much....too much in the sense that its too capital centric. TALL capital centric civs already have a pretty good advantage in tourism victory, but I think this building actually makes it dominant....it too greatly rewards a player that focuses all of their time and attention building wonders, national wonders, and Great Person improvements in their capital. Its double penalty if I have built a world wonder in another city that has tourism slots that I am getting synergy out of it, as I'm losing double the bonus for not putting that in the capital.
Culture victory to me is already one of the most "invested" VC in the game, meaning you have to plan fairly far in advance to get it. This just makes that even worse.
Ultimately I think this building should simply provide the bonus to culture from all wonders, national wonders, great works, and great person improvements. You could argue for other improvements as well but that is likely too much of a swing. But this way, it allows players that spread their wonders and national wonders out (which often has its own penalties) to at least not lose out on the critical bonuses you get here. It also gives WIDE empires at least a fighting chance to try tourism.
So my recommendation:
National Visitor Center:
Gain 100% of the culture of all national wonders, world wonders, and great person improvements in your cities as tourism in this city. Great Works tourism in all cities +100%. Gain 100% of the culture of improvements and landmarks in this city as tourism.
Ultimately if you are playing a heavy capital centric tourism play....this will change nothing. But it gives other play styles a better chance to compete.
Scriver's Office (C) Normally the starting point for diplomatic play, I just find that the diplomatic units are still too expensive to really start using at this point.
I think what would make this nice is to provide a free emissary at its construction, to kick off the start of diplomatic play and wet the players appetite for securing CS allies since the units.
Heroic Epic (A) Just does the job.
National Monument (A) One of the lynchpin national wonders to me, is a key balance elements in capital centric playstyles.
School of Philosophy (A) Another of the lynchpin national wonders, at the time provides a nice boost to science, but as GA becomes more frequent in the late game really scales up.
Circus Maximus (A) The key is the culture bonus, can really drive up a capitals culture with WLTK play. The happiness is a good immediate bonus.
Oxford University: (C) Though its not the strongest bonus, it does allow a science focused player to recoup some of the culture they are given up to culture players with a focus on tech. But the bonus is not that strong, maybe a slight increase.
Grand Temple (A) A really fun NW. Gives everyone a chance to play with a golden age, the faith bonus is good for everyone, and helps a little with unrest.
East India Company (A) Opens some fun doors for trade with new luxuries to give away, and the extra gold is pretty nice.
Ironworks: (A) The +10 hammers is big! But the science bonus is also a good mechanic. One of my favs
Printing Press (A). Ultimately it gives you a boost in diplomatic play at a time when they normally becomes more commonplace. Its a bit bland to me is my only issue.
Hermitage (C). Culture is decent, just a bit bland. Would be nice to at least have some tourism on it without needing special policies or religious beliefs.
International Finance Center (A). Its yields are weaker than the other ideology equivalents, but its votes are much easier to get. A solid one.
Palace of Culture and Science (A). To me one of the key reasons to get Order, though I find its votes are much much more difficult to get as a human, the AI like to defensive pact with each other but never with me!
Foreign Bureau: (C) Its strong enough, but its just another NW in a string of diplomatic NWs that all do the same exact thing. Time for some spice, give me something cool to do with diplomacy at this point!
Hall of Honor: (F) This doesn't synergize very well with Autocracy at all. The faith bonus is very late in the game, the tourism bonus doesn't work well with Autocracy. The votes are somewhat directly in your control, but find Freedom's vote building to be comparable.
National Intelligence Agency: (F). I don't care about spy reduction, the crime reduction in a city with a police station is usually handled. The +1 spy is the only thing going for it, but new spies only do so much at this point. This one could use some spice to it, maybe something cool to do with my spies.
National Visitor Center (F - OP). Ultimately this is one of the most important buildings for the culture victory...it provides a massive boost in tourism.
And I actually think its too much....too much in the sense that its too capital centric. TALL capital centric civs already have a pretty good advantage in tourism victory, but I think this building actually makes it dominant....it too greatly rewards a player that focuses all of their time and attention building wonders, national wonders, and Great Person improvements in their capital. Its double penalty if I have built a world wonder in another city that has tourism slots that I am getting synergy out of it, as I'm losing double the bonus for not putting that in the capital.
Culture victory to me is already one of the most "invested" VC in the game, meaning you have to plan fairly far in advance to get it. This just makes that even worse.
Ultimately I think this building should simply provide the bonus to culture from all wonders, national wonders, great works, and great person improvements. You could argue for other improvements as well but that is likely too much of a swing. But this way, it allows players that spread their wonders and national wonders out (which often has its own penalties) to at least not lose out on the critical bonuses you get here. It also gives WIDE empires at least a fighting chance to try tourism.
So my recommendation:
National Visitor Center:
Gain 100% of the culture of all national wonders, world wonders, and great person improvements in your cities as tourism in this city. Great Works tourism in all cities +100%. Gain 100% of the culture of improvements and landmarks in this city as tourism.
Ultimately if you are playing a heavy capital centric tourism play....this will change nothing. But it gives other play styles a better chance to compete.
